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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 9:08:39 GMT -5
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 2, 2010 9:57:41 GMT -5
Yes that is true however there is a big difference from being awaken which was a intellectual awakening and some energtics involved when I wrote that to be beyond the mind awakening. I could have stopped there and would have felt I did it. However I stuck to it which means for 2 hrs every day I sat in stillness. Now look at the difference to have what you guys call awakening and what I had can be had without any stillness, without any perseverance. This is why I do not like what your group is doing.
I am not saying I am anything special but I will say that most people would not sit for 2 hrs everyday after they had this kind of awakening. They would think they have arrived and when you give them a badge and create a section for the enlighten ones and put them on a name list all you are doing is pumping them up.
However this is exactly what needs to be done not necessary 2 hrs but a strong dedication to see who you are. The idea that you are no-self is nothing I can show a person in 1 or 2 days that they have no-self. There is really only one reason that this extreme neo-advaita teachings is so popular it's people are lazy. If they can think there way to "enlightenment and do nothing it's great. Try telling your group that you cannot be called enlighten unless you put in at least 2 hrs a day sitting in stillness for 6 months everyday and see what happens.
The real awakening happens later. I would be fine with your group if you did not let the ego get to you and call some people enlighten and call what you call awakening as just opening the door. But from what little I did read it's not like that with your group. You use certain psychological NLP techniques to show a person there is no-self. Even my first experience was more than just the intellect. It was a noticeable energetic shift. IF you just have it in the head it's not being awake, all it is a change of a person beliefs.
There is one more thing about your group that you may not be aware. The intellectual awakening you give with the ego as strong as they are you have will create a few monsters that think since their is no me, no anyone I now have a license to go in a convenience store rob it and blow a guy head off if I need to. You have a license to do anything you want the remorse will not be there because what you fall back on is there is no me to feel bad about anything I do. I am not saying everyone or even the majority of your group would do this but I guarantee you anyone that would be sitting on a fence to go rob someone or whatever will be pull over to do this by your process. This is a extremely tricky area when it comes to your kind of teachings. Actually you have a very good start to be a cult and not a good cult but a serious head trip cult. I was around in Jim Jones time.
Do you think anyone with him , the mothers that gave poison cool aid to there kids and baby's thought they were doing something bad/harmful? Jim Jones preached love on the highest level to begin with as his ego began to grow fast he became more and more convince he was Jesus just like you folks are convince you are enlighten and there is no you.
As I said there is a lot more to this as Iris pointed out. The real awakening happens in a process. That is how it is doesn't matter if you believe it or not you will not change what is just because you believe differently you will only con your own self.
Ok on with my day. I do hope you get something from what I am saying here, something that allows you to see and open up your eyes to the real truth.
Have a good day
Michael
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 10:44:40 GMT -5
Michael,
If you actually read my posts, you would see that all I have ever claimed is that I have found the RT forum to be helpful. In the post above, you consistently use 'your group' or 'you folks' or whatever. RT is not some sort of group in which to belong, for one thing, and for another, if it were, I would not be a member.
Every post you have made regarding RT smacks of intense reactivity, lumping it into neo-Advaita stuff vs. real Advaita, rather than just reading and responding to actual posts. In other words, your posts are manifestations of your own illusions.
If you actually read some of the RT 'duels' you will see that energetic shifts happen, not that that matters. It's just text, for crying out loud.
All of that said, I deeply respect and appreciate your words of caution in regards to cultishness and Jim Jones and not swallowing the kool-aid. And I AGREE WITH YOU -- you might have seen this much earlier if you had actually seen through your own reactivity/illusions -- that the RT claims of so-and-so numbers of people being enlightened is absurd. It is absurd for anyone to 'verify' enlightenment, especially via online forum. But I could be wrong. Also, no where have I claimed to be enlightened, awakened, self-less or whatever. Again, my biggest claim has been that RT was helpful.
I'm also finding the thread here on self-enquiry to be helpful. Much of the advice on that thread is similar to what you would find at RT, if you bothered to look sincerely.
MDP
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Post by kakistos on Dec 2, 2010 12:10:54 GMT -5
Max ole buddy first nothing ever insults me. There is nothing here to insult. However I have told you this more than once please do not act foolish it's fine if you want this just for you but it's not good going around misleading people that are sincere seekers. Also once again it's impossible for any one to be enlighten. To be enlighten there needs to be a subject to enlighten and there is none. What you call enlighten is only one illusion on top of another illusion. I may be talking to deep for you now if I am sorry. This is really very basic stuff. The moment you use the word enlighten in any nonduality settings it gives away that you know nothing about nonduality. I tell you this you take your medicine show to any real nonduality forum and they will just laugh at you or ignore you completely. If you were alive during Niz times and you sat in one of his talks and he knew you were spreading this kind of BS he would stand up walk over to you pick you up by your collar and kick you in the ass out the door. And Niz is probably one of the very few that have ever awaken to that degree. It's really all BS Max. Go sit with a real teacher sometime and just listen. Peace Michael You do get that words, in general, aren't real things yeah? i mean its entire nature is dualistic... You are actually just being a semantic thingy here. DUH, seriously man, f**king DUH, of course there is noone to be enlightened. But that doesn't matter. language is literally an entire dimension of concepts. the dao that can be spoken of and all that jazz. so what? Enlightenment is the recognition of the absense of anyone to actually be enlightened. That recognition frees up the mind for various other explorations, or not. "deepening the state" so to speak. Though i dont like to talk in those terms cos well... its all a bit unnecessarily spiritual sounding and thingyish. "Real teachers" as you call them, dont free people with much of a degree of success. If this was an intellectual understanding of a concept, we could write at length about the various ways it is true and release it like a study course (which is what most of these gurus do) instead, we simply say "there is no you" and "look" That looking brings the person to an actual experiential recognition. And as for the "keeping score" If you weren't so fearful of ego you'd see the merit in such devices. We have no interest in saving face for the sake of looking non dual or behaving enlightened. we're just in the business of non duality and actual enlightenment. |
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 2, 2010 12:18:31 GMT -5
Max , thank you I can accept this that about you it's the first post that made some sense to me. but still the forum RT separates a group that is "enlighten" and a group that is not. However you cut the cake it's the ego playing around big time.
The whole idea is to get away from any kind of separation not make some more! This is why I dislike the RT and see no benefit for anyone there because right from the start they have a bad foundation by separation. Once that idea gets into the heads of members there it's a lost cause. The members will only think that they make progress when separation happens.
Michael
I
Michael
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Post by m on Dec 2, 2010 12:56:00 GMT -5
Is anyone on this forum totally ever free of any egotistic drive ?
m
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Post by m on Dec 2, 2010 12:57:59 GMT -5
stepven: I don't feel I'am anywhere. m stepven: are you still ok for teaching me how to get free from my egotistic drives ? m |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 13:17:23 GMT -5
m- i agree, egotism is hard to escape (was it Richard Rose who said that if you were an asshole before enlightenment you'll be an asshole after enlightenment) michael <clears throat> the forum RT separates a group that is "enlighten" and a group that is not. However you cut the cake it's the ego playing around big time. The whole idea is to get away from any kind of separation not make some more! =pot This is why I dislike the RT and see no benefit for anyone there because right from the start they have a bad foundation by separation. Once that idea gets into the heads of members there it's a lost cause. =kettle calling the pot black [also, recent post about three groups of people on a different thread.] I know from first-hand experience that there are people that login at RT (green 'Noobs') who have not delved seriously into either understanding conceptually the idea of not identifying with self and have not directly experienced the 'energetic shift' that happens when actual looking and seeing happens. When the latter happens and is recorded in some way -- again verifying is all text, whatever -- a blue color with 'enlightened' moniker is given. People who help one go from green to blue are given a red color and 'liberator.' Again, the language is absurd. Not new news. But it is transparent. And it's just another website. The question is whether this process can be helpful. I say yes, from first hand experience. You say no, it is further delusion, mainly because the 'foundation' is flawed, by which you mean, the color scheme and labels given. As odious as you may regard Stepvhen, his basic question, which runs the show at RT, is a good one: Is there a you?? |
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Post by m on Dec 2, 2010 13:24:33 GMT -5
I guess I have (more than ) enough.
m
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 2, 2010 14:23:59 GMT -5
No! now how hard is that. Does it get you any where No. I am done with this thread Michael As odious as you may regard Stepvhen, his basic question, which runs the show at RT, is a good one: Is there a you?? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2010 14:24:02 GMT -5
I guess I have (more than ) enough. m hey dwelling on egotism, or anything, is just a way that you reinforce the whole identification process. it is a colossal waste of time. The Ruthless Truth forums are now open. Login, create a 'duel' and stop wasting time. |
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Post by m on Dec 2, 2010 15:54:25 GMT -5
There must someone to 'duel' with. ;D Which would be a good way to create a situation in order to look for a way to get out of it ;D.. am I improving on the way to "no self" ?  Now I may well do it... some day... just to go all the way to check the obvious all by "my self"... No kedding. this is the way I like to make everything clear m I guess I have (more than ) enough. m hey dwelling on egotism, or anything, is just a way that you reinforce the whole identification process. it is a colossal waste of time. The Ruthless Truth forums are now open. Login, create a 'duel' and stop wasting time. |
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iris
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Post by iris on Dec 2, 2010 16:02:51 GMT -5
Hey mate. Its interesting that you acknowledge that we have infact recognized the fact that there is no-self but we still have a huge ego. It's one thing to know what you are not. That's the easy part. It's another to know what you are. We don't. But because we are the ones who are taking action and not willing to settle for the 'blissed out peace on a mountaintop' Is that what you think? That this is about blissing out? Anyway, we have decided that deepening this will eventually be taken care of Deepening was a poor choice of words. This is not a state that you deepen. If any of you actually reach the point where you have the opportunity go "deeper", I doubt that many of you will actually follow through. In the mean time you will be running around misleading others. This is a falling away of everything. Losing yourself, losing your reality. There is nothing pretty about it. More like insanity really. They don't tell you that. but whats more important for the world right now is to recognize the truth of 'no you'. You is an untruth. The mind can easily get that. But what is true? See the truth first, then decide if you want to take this to the world. Most will not want this. You say consider the possibility that you don't exist. To you I say consider the possibility that you haven't even started. Keep going. |
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diego
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Post by diego on Dec 2, 2010 16:06:50 GMT -5
@michaelsees
It is obvious that you have this concept of enlightenment as being this mystical realization somehow beyond the mind. Of course, that is the case if you follow the teachings of guru's or spiritual teachers.
Well, that is just lazy and lame. If you want that, shut up, sit down and stare at a wall for a prolonged period of time. It will happen.
Testing out and looking for the truth isn't being lazy. You are claiming it is, because you don't have the courage to test it out yourself. So spare all your arguments on what someone else is saying if there is not even the slightest effort to look and see if there is no 'self'.
By the way this isn't intellectual recognition in the sense that you think about it, accept it and have formed a new belief. Rather it's about seeing, awakening and being liberated. So you can't really talk about this and dismiss it, if you don't have the courage to delve deep and look into it.
If you don't look, well then you will remain a 'real seeker', and a serious one as you have pointed out. If that is the case, then go ahead and keep on seeking, but know that this ain't getting you closer to true realization. Again, keep meditating and have fun doing 'spiritual' practices that are just building you false sense of 'self'.
It is easy to get lost in trying to look for something. Don't get stuck on what enlightenment means. Think of it as liberation, not an airy-fairy wonderland of no thought and stillness. It's so easy for you to accept that enlightenment means absolute peace and stillness of thought, especially when being fed to you by spiritual masters.
For starters, these enlightened masters are in a great position to help. But, most of them instead of going to mountaintops should get cracking on industrializing liberation. Think about it, what's so noble about being enlightened while the world around you rots?
This notion of having everlasting peace at the expense of not giving a crap about what happens around me, is what is seen in most of the enlightened that bliss out secluded in mountains.
RT is spreading a bullet to get to the core. No BS messages, poems, paradoxes or beautiful stories are presented. Just the truth. What is needed is a simple honest exploration. Test to see if it's true. Come one, test it, don't feed me lines from what you read.
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Post by michaelsees on Dec 2, 2010 21:39:39 GMT -5
Deigo,
It's a shame but that post is really sick, dumb and cultish.
I won't go into all the crap you just wrote but if you were even near awakening you would know that this world you talk about is only a projection there is nothing to rot there is no world the world exists just like your self exist. except maybe your brain.
I love what Iris just wrote
"
It's one thing to know what you are not. That's the easy part.
It's another to know what you are."
You and the rest of RT need to read the above everyday a few hundred times for 2 weeks that's my prescription.
You have no idea what awakening is.
Michael
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