misc
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Post by misc on Dec 28, 2008 16:44:51 GMT -5
Nisargadatta says to only cling to I AM, does this mean only have the thought I AM, and only feel everything you can feel? Does the I AM eventually disapear if it is the only thing you are thinking of, or are we to feel I AM, and how so? IF it is feeling, do we watch thought then.
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Morrie
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"Nothing is me" is the first step. "Everything is me" is the next.
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Post by Morrie on Dec 28, 2008 19:31:12 GMT -5
In my intrepretation, Nisargadatta does not mean that you should constantly focus on the thought "I am" as if it were a mantra...Nisargadatta was not that big on mantras and only rarely gave a mantra to one of his students. Nisargadatta does repeatedly stress the concept "I am" and I take it to mean that we should focus on our state prior to consciousness before our conditioned mind took over and began running the show. So, the "I am" means focusing on the quiet, preconditioned mind.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 28, 2008 19:38:22 GMT -5
It's a method of allowing us to look at all of the self concepts we subconsciously tack on to our experience. Sticking with I am is a place of openness and simplicity. It allows us to more easily see what is really going on, without prejudging our limitations. Obviously these misconceptions are deeply ingrained, so it seems that the idea of going with only "I Am" allows us to notice where we have been getting in our way and start to examine and release those limiting ways of existing. Make sense? Nisargadatta says to only cling to I AM, does this mean only have the thought I AM, and only feel everything you can feel? Does the I AM eventually disapear if it is the only thing you are thinking of, or are we to feel I AM, and how so? IF it is feeling, do we watch thought then. |
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misc
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Post by misc on Dec 29, 2008 0:50:20 GMT -5
I want to know the method, in total description. I am ready to try it forever.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 29, 2008 13:16:10 GMT -5
Awesome, well I'd be happy to give you my take on it. Notice that you are Aware. There is Awareness there. It's not attributed to anything in particular. It's just Awareness. Everything else takes place purely within that. Nothing actually happens outside your awareness if you want to get real literal about it. And I definitely want to get really really literal here. Thus, your awareness contains every experience. Starting to develop a relationship to that Awareness (that knowingness that "I AM" as Nisargadatta puts it) starts to develop more and more. Anything that limits then comes up to be experienced and allowed. This provides more intimacy with that Awareness and more and more unfetteredness. Eventually, the understanding is that you ARE that Awareness. You are inseparable from that. Of COURSE that must be true! This comes when the relationship to that Awareness is comfortable enough and you are ready to accept it. It could be right this second, then there is Awakening, and you've started. If not, there is pretty much nothing you can do for it not to come soon, if you sincerely want it. If there are any questions or concerns that come up, I am happy to address them if you'd like. Go get em.  I want to know the method, in total description. I am ready to try it forever. |
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misc
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Post by misc on Dec 29, 2008 17:43:24 GMT -5
that helps a lot, but am I too remind my self with thought that I am, opposed to silly thoughts. What to do with thought too? be aware of it, when or why does awareness realize thought is not self. I guess when it realized it is awareness, so is awareness just being aware that I exist? or is it feeling all there is to be felt/?
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 30, 2008 19:46:40 GMT -5
It's a good thought, but thinking "I am" is probably not going to help. The whole idea is the recognizing that it's the BELIEVING the thoughts that are confining/painful and not the actual circumstances, events, or thoughts. It ultimately ends up that pretty much all thoughts are assumptions and not set in stone. Thus, making the idea of "I am" into another concept or thought would simply be defeating the purpose of the exercise. Checking in to notice your own Awareness at regular intervals can be very helpful. It begins cultivating the relationship to that Awareness, and noticing that everything is contained within Awareness and noticing the contentment that comes from that. Checking in to see that it is always there will start to make you more aware of it all the time. Of course, there is no one way for everyone, but it's the same concept either way. Whatever will help you start to notice that Awareness and sink into is useful. The importance being on the open, unknown, boundless, awareness itself, and not other thoughts concepts, or attempts to pin it down. Just see if it works for you. Otherwise, there are many other approaches that can be very useful. If you want some person-specific suggestions, just PM me, as I've tried everything over the years and there's a lot of good methods that work depending on the person.... that helps a lot, but am I too remind my self with thought that I am, opposed to silly thoughts. What to do with thought too? be aware of it, when or why does awareness realize thought is not self. I guess when it realized it is awareness, so is awareness just being aware that I exist? or is it feeling all there is to be felt/? |
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fear
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Post by fear on Dec 31, 2008 14:37:15 GMT -5
misc, I think you are on the right track because in my opinion there is no method and any method just reinforces the ego. You came across a paradox quite quickly, that you have to remind yourself with thought that "I am". So how can you focus on I am when you have to constantly remind yourself with thought.
" I am" is just being, which cannot be achieved with thought because we are either in the past or future. "I'm am going to" or "I did" but never "I am". So in my opinion Nisargadatta pointed out an impossible method thus not giving you a method.
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Morrie
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"Nothing is me" is the first step. "Everything is me" is the next.
Posts: 38
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Post by Morrie on Dec 31, 2008 22:43:18 GMT -5
that helps a lot, but am I too remind my self with thought that I am, opposed to silly thoughts. What to do with thought too? be aware of it, when or why does awareness realize thought is not self. I guess when it realized it is awareness, so is awareness just being aware that I exist? or is it feeling all there is to be felt/? Misc, if you look at this Nisargadatta video, it touches on these concepts. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUyLIYVrd5U |
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misc
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Post by misc on Jan 1, 2009 18:03:36 GMT -5
thank you all, you guys are very insightful and helpful.
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Post by klaus on Jan 1, 2009 19:37:43 GMT -5
You know where you are awake,
you know where you are dreaming.
Where are you in the dreamless state?
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misc
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Post by misc on Jan 2, 2009 17:59:41 GMT -5
I do not know what the state before consciousness even is, or how to be aware of it. The I am still confuses me, is it to simply concentrate on the fact that you exist... I need a total description before I commit for a lack of better words!
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Post by waw on Jan 5, 2009 15:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by Peter on Jan 6, 2009 14:41:22 GMT -5
Notice that you are Aware. There is Awareness there. It's not attributed to anything in particular. It's just Awareness. Everything else takes place purely within that. Nothing actually happens outside your awareness if you want to get real literal about it. And I definitely want to get really really literal here. Your ability to teach is really shining through in that posting LightMystic - very clear communication. I'd Exalt you a Karma point if you didn't already have twice as many as I do  I'm going to take a different line though, and I hesitated to post this because it's just my opinion on it. I hope having another point of view is helpful rather than confusing. As I see it, the "I AM" is that feeling of presence, of self-awareness which is more real, more 'here' than ordinary waking consciousness. It's that quality of awareness that can suddenly spring up on you when you're not particularly concentrating on getting something done. If you're in the middle of an argument, it's that quality that allows you to work creatively, instead of reacting automatically. So in that respect, spritual practice has tangible and immediate benefits in the 'real' world regardless of any 'attainment'. It's a feeling of being connected to a higher 'Me', and to the Universe and Not Universe. It's pointed to by playing The Game www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=I+lost+the+game It's like wakening up when you're already awake and the first thing you do is remember how long ago it was that you were last awake and - if it's been a couple of days - despair about how little spiritual progress you're making. So I have to disagree with LightMystic when he says that everything takes place within Awareness. Perhaps it does for him, but for me things seem to take place regardless of my level of awareness. I wouldn't claim to be 'Aware' unless I was in that feeling of 'present', of actually being where I am, rather than some sort of semi-distracted barely listening state that I seem to spend most of my weekends in. I had a little too much of it one time I was on a week long silent meditation retreat - it all got a little too immediate, a little too 'raw'. As LM says, you need to become comfortable with that relationship to Awareness. I'd also have to disagree with Fear. I agree with him that 'I AM' is about 'Being'. Being Present (I AM) does not require any 'thinking' but it does require a modicum of effort to avoid being swept away (into the past or the future) by a train of thought - at least that's true of where I am now. So as I see it, it is a method, and a possible one at that. The brief thought 'i am' can be used to bring you back to the present when you eventually manage to get off that train (and I'm not sure that we actually have much choice in when the train lets us go, which is why it's better not to get on board in the first place!). So I also disagree with Morrie about 'pre' consciousness. As I see it, 'I AM' is a quality that exists over and above ordinary waking consciousness - 'Post' conscious perhaps Cheers, Peter |
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Post by Peter on Jan 6, 2009 15:35:48 GMT -5
You know where you are awake, you know where you are dreaming. Where are you in the dreamless state? Hi Klaus, I found that interesting when read as a Zen Koan. Did you have an answer for your own question? However when answering the question literally, I'd say that I'm nowhere in the dreamless state - I exist only as potential. The most important thing about it for me is that I have no memory of it, and things that I have no memory of I don't have much use for! The analogy came to mind of powering down a computer, putting it into "Standby" perhaps. All the data is there on the hard drive, it all still 'exists', but it's not active, there is no change, no experience, no memory. Actually arguably, there is no Time either. LightMystic, a while ago you spoke about awareness being present 24/7 - is that something you experience yourself and if so, do you have memory of every minute of the day? Cheers, Peter |
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