lobo
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Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jun 30, 2010 15:58:37 GMT -5
I think that the confusion lies in the fact that from the beginning of time (LOL) people who have had direct experiences have shared the details with others who then tried to apply that to themselves. The holy books are full of all that. My direct experience can only tell you the experience I had and how it effected me. When we measure ourselves with the yardsticks of others it is useless. People have direct experiences every day but misinterpret them due to conditioned preconception taught to them as children by well meaning but misinformed adults. divinity: that is a really good point I suspect it is something everyone knows, or has known, but looses track of thanks for the reminder by the way, the karma counter is kind of a brownie point or a slap across the chops.....that you can give another member kind of like jr high school if you ask me LOL
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lobo
Full Member
Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jun 30, 2010 16:01:03 GMT -5
What does the"Karma: "1, "Karma: 2" under our names mean anyway? ha hah hah hah there gave you one I guess jr high was kind of fun in a way LOL
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Post by divinity on Jun 30, 2010 21:22:06 GMT -5
I'm glad I only have a karma of 1 and I apologize to whoever I may have slapped inadvertently! You gave me a brownie point, Burt? Does that mean you didn;t mean what you said? I never liked Junior High!
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lobo
Full Member
Posts: 193
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Post by lobo on Jun 30, 2010 22:23:40 GMT -5
yes, to demonstrate not that you don't deserve one LOL I do think it is kind of junior high popularity stuff, but what the heck, I can't take that too seriously LOL
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Post by etolle on Feb 17, 2019 21:38:23 GMT -5
Can you directly experience non duality all of the time? Me: Who we are is an unimaginable oneness. It is oneness that experiences everything, whether it is realized by a particular human being or not. If we learn to shift attention from thoughts to "what is," then we can experience oneness without separation at any time. If the body/mind looks around and sees "what is" without distinction, then what is seen is not divided into imaginary states. There is neither an observer nor anything (any separate thing) that is observed. Oneness is simply interacting with itself in a state of emptiness. This is what it does all the time, but it may periodically choose to consciously do this. People who know who they are, and who have learned to enter the mystery of their being at will, usually oscillate between periods of direct perception and periods of thought. What frequently distinguishes such people is their deep enjoyment of immersion in the mystery of their being, and they may spend long periods of time simply looking, listening, feeling, smelling, and tasting in the total absence of thoughts. They are in love with "what is" and they don't like to psychologically wander (in the mind) too far away from "what is" for too long a time. This is why most people who become enlightened continue to perform what might be thought of as "practices" after enlightenment. From their perspective their periods of attentiveness to "what is" are not practices at all. They are simply periods of abiding in presence. One last point: there is a difference between what might be called "intentional relative samadhi" and what might be called "UN-intentional relative samadhi." The farther people go on the path of non duality, the less reflective they become. This means that there is often no effort to be in any particular state of mind. They live in a general state of non-reflective flow in which they go about their business, but without any sense of directing anything. They are like little children at play. They enjoy what they're doing, but they're not reflecting about it. They are absorbed in being. By contrast, at certain specific times people who have attained freedom may become tired of thinking or just want to relax and spend some time in intentional silence. There are times, for example, when the body/mind may want to sit in silence, listen to universal sound, and sink into absolute samadhi. At other times it may decide to leave the ordinary go-go world behind and go for a hike in the woods while simply looking at plants, animals, clouds, etc. or listening to the wind or the bubbling of creeks. Does this answer your question? add a little rescued dog to that last paragraph and its yours truly...thanks zen
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 17, 2019 23:31:44 GMT -5
People on this forum have expressed they don't want beliefs they want direct experience. Can some of you explain about direct experience? What does it mean to you? And please explain why you want to get rid of beliefs. Thank you. Krsna says in the Bhagavad - Gita He's the cause of one's remembrance, forgetfulness, and knowledge. Since Krsna is Brahman the source of oneness, it's a direct experience if we forget persons, places and things, remembrance of persons, places and things, and attainment of knowledge. These come from the One, inseparable, spontaneous and eternal. In duality, we give the dual names. Direct experience of non-duality is when one is at a loss for words, the remembrance of words and spontaneous acquisition of knowledge.
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Post by arisha on Feb 18, 2019 0:35:00 GMT -5
We can give names, for ex., "Oneness", but we can never experience that "Oneness" . It is beyond ANY experience. Even those states of mind which some people have about Oneness, cannot actually be equivalent to it, or somehow provide an image of it. So, those experiences and states of mind are of no value. Only in the eyes of those who had such states of mind they are something that, they think, is very important. It happens due to their ego. The best thing is to avoid such experiences as they add nothing, absolutely nothing, to the spiritual understanding and spiritual practicing. All that is connected to spirituality exists only because there are humans who imagine such things. Without humans there is nobody who could have talks and discussions about anything, spirituality included. Without humans Oneness cannot be talked about and "experienced" as well. So, Oneness by itself makes no sense at all. It's a human's invention, and it was made for DISTRACTION from much more important things which are a part of human nature. We are all humans, right? So, we need those things which are not the DISTRACTION from our human necessities but we need that which HELPS us to live our lives to the full, and become more spiritual and less egoistic beings. Not Oneness. But the really important things which help in our EVERYDAY HUMAN LIFE ON THE EARTH.
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Post by etolle on Feb 18, 2019 11:10:54 GMT -5
Drifter: Great questions. Most of them have been answered on other threads, but I'll try to recap the issues here. Let's use one example. Some people believe in God and some people do not. A few people, like the ones on this website, want something more than a belief or faith in this sort of thing; they want some sort of direct experience, like stumping their toe on a rock, that is concrete and definitive. If God exists, they want to see God, or touch God, or somehow tangibly know the truth one way or the other. They aren't looking for an intellectual experience or an emotional experience; they want a direct experience through the body. If God exists, they want something like the experience Paul had on the road to Damascus--something that will remove all doubt forever. Many people on this website have had Damascus-road kinds of experiences. After such an experience, they don;t have to have a belief about God or faith in God; they know the truth in the same way as someone who knows that he's stubbed his toe on a rock. It is unquestionable. Most beliefs do not matter very much, and there is no need to get rid of them. I have never been to Moscow, but I believe that the city exists and looks like photographs that I have seen. If I flew to Moscow and experienced the city for myself, I would no longer need to believe in its existence. I would know. I have never met President Obama, but I believe that he is the President and lives in the White House. If I went to the White House and shook hands with him, then I would no longer need to believe that he's there. I'd know. Spiritual issues, however, are a different matter altogether. If I want to experience God, I can't get in a spaceship and fly to wherever his heavenly realm is supposed to be and meet him face to face. Fortunately, it is possible to have a concrete experience of what is called "God" (it isn't a he or even a thing) that will put the issue to rest forever, and that is the goal of most seekers on this website. Most people believe in space, time, energy, and matter, but do these things exist, and if so, what manner of things are they? Most people believe that they have control over their actions, but is this true, and how is it possible to find out? The answer to every existential and/or spiritual question is already present, but at varying depths of mind. To get the answers, one must sometimes dive deep and be very persistent, but what is being sought is an experience that is just as real as stubbing your toe on a rock. Does this help answer your question? this explains it very well.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 18, 2019 11:42:01 GMT -5
We are not responsible for our direct experience. Here's why. . Bhagavad - Gita Chapter 18: Conclusion-The Perfection of Renunciation TEXT 61 The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy. PURPORT Arjuna was not the supreme knower, and his decision to fight or not to fight was confined to his limited discretion. Lord Krsna instructed that the individual is not all in all. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, or He Himself, Krsna, the localized Supersoul, sits in the heart directing the living being. After changing bodies, the living entity forgets his past deeds, but the Supersoul, as the knower of the past, present and future, remains the witness of all his activities. Therefore all the activities of living entities are directed by this Supersoul. The living entity gets what he deserves and is carried by the material body which is created in the material energy under the direction of the Supersoul. As soon as a living entity is placed in a particular type of body, he has to work under the spell of that bodily situation. A person seated in a high-speed motor car goes faster than one seated in a slower car, though the living entities, the drivers, may be the same. Similarly, by the order of the Supreme Soul, material nature fashions a particular type of body to a particular type of living entity to work according to his past desires. The living entity is not independant. One should not think himself independant of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The individual is always under His control. Therefore his duty is to surrender.
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