Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2019 7:56:47 GMT -5
I thought this an interesting vid by Spira. Not to promote his approach, but as a topic of discussion. The vid connects Ouspensky and self-enquiry or self-abidance and describes how the mind subsides ever more frequently as one awakens. It reminded of many of the things said on this forum and in a strange way of zazen.
|
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 6, 2019 15:34:31 GMT -5
I thought this an interesting vid by Spira. Not to promote his approach, but as a topic of discussion. The vid connects Ouspensky and self-enquiry or self-abidance and describes how the mind subsides ever more frequently as one awakens. It reminded of many of the things said on this forum and in a strange way of zazen. Very good video, overall, as far as it goes. A few things. He is right, self-remembering is just a name. (But if you ~practice~ self-remembering, you eventually understand the why of the name. And what he says is confusion about the name, self-remembering, is deliberate on the part of the teaching. You have to come to understand what self-remembering is, then you understand the name). Along with this, his analogy of the actor, "John" acting, and forgetting that he is not King Lear, but going about his ordinary life as-if he is King Lear is a very good analogy for self-remembering. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~But then most importantly, where he talks about the attention needing to go out and engage life at times, but then when this necessary going out is over the attention comes back to its source. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way. The attention can go out and stay in the source, simultaneously. In and out simultaneously. This is an actual form of self-remembering, What-- it-- is. The other analogy discussed, the film projected on-to the screen, if all of your attention is on the projected pictures on to the screen, this is not self-remembering. That is what identification is (one could say it is self-forgetting). Added note. If Spira is correct concerning self-remembering, his description of attention going out into life not being self-remembering, but attention coming back to source when the former is complete, being self-remembering, then he is putting limits on self-remembering. It is possible to remember oneself "always and everywhere". |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 8:05:31 GMT -5
I thought this an interesting vid by Spira. Not to promote his approach, but as a topic of discussion. The vid connects Ouspensky and self-enquiry or self-abidance and describes how the mind subsides ever more frequently as one awakens. It reminded of many of the things said on this forum and in a strange way of zazen. Very good video, overall, as far as it goes. A few things. He is right, self-remembering is just a name. (But if you ~practice~ self-remembering, you eventually understand the why of the name. And what he says is confusion about the name, self-remembering, is deliberate on the part of the teaching. You have to come to understand what self-remembering is, then you understand the name). Along with this, his analogy of the actor, "John" acting, and forgetting that he is not King Lear, but going about his ordinary life as-if he is King Lear is a very good analogy for self-remembering. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~But then most importantly, where he talks about the attention needing to go out and engage life at times, but then when this necessary going out is over the attention comes back to its source. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way. The attention can go out and stay in the source, simultaneously. In and out simultaneously. This is an actual form of self-remembering, What-- it-- is. The other analogy discussed, the film projected on-to the screen, if all of your attention is on the projected pictures on to the screen, this is not self-remembering. That is what identification is (one could say it is self-forgetting). Added note. If Spira is correct concerning self-remembering, his description of attention going out into life not being self-remembering, but attention coming back to source when the former is complete, being self-remembering, then he is putting limits on self-remembering. It is possible to remember oneself "always and everywhere". I think he agrees with what you are saying about about simultaneously touching an object and resting in the heart. His description perhaps is somewhat tepid, he says that awareness is the backdrop, or in the background. In mushin, it seems the objects are engaged from the perspective of stillness. I find that when the action is too fraught with tension, self remembering is tedious,almost like swimming against the tide. In mushin the opposite is true, engaging thought is like swimming against the tide. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 7, 2019 10:49:31 GMT -5
Very good video, overall, as far as it goes. A few things. He is right, self-remembering is just a name. (But if you ~practice~ self-remembering, you eventually understand the why of the name. And what he says is confusion about the name, self-remembering, is deliberate on the part of the teaching. You have to come to understand what self-remembering is, then you understand the name). Along with this, his analogy of the actor, "John" acting, and forgetting that he is not King Lear, but going about his ordinary life as-if he is King Lear is a very good analogy for self-remembering. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~But then most importantly, where he talks about the attention needing to go out and engage life at times, but then when this necessary going out is over the attention comes back to its source. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way. The attention can go out and stay in the source, simultaneously. In and out simultaneously. This is an actual form of self-remembering, What-- it-- is. The other analogy discussed, the film projected on-to the screen, if all of your attention is on the projected pictures on to the screen, this is not self-remembering. That is what identification is (one could say it is self-forgetting). Added note. If Spira is correct concerning self-remembering, his description of attention going out into life not being self-remembering, but attention coming back to source when the former is complete, being self-remembering, then he is putting limits on self-remembering. It is possible to remember oneself "always and everywhere". I think he agrees with what you are saying about about simultaneously touching an object and resting in the heart. His description perhaps is somewhat tepid, he says that awareness is the backdrop, or in the background. In mushin, it seems the objects are engaged from the perspective of stillness. I find that when the action is too fraught with tension, self remembering is tedious,almost like swimming against the tide. In mushin the opposite is true, engaging thought is like swimming against the tide. Yes. The action fraught with tension demands your attention, awareness even. |
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 8, 2019 7:16:06 GMT -5
Very good video, overall, as far as it goes. A few things. He is right, self-remembering is just a name. (But if you ~practi once~ self-remembering, you eventually understand the why of the name. And what he says is confusion about the name, self-remembering, is deliberate on the part of the teaching. You have to come to understand what self-remembering is, then you understand the name). Along with this, his analogy of the actor, "John" acting, and forgetting that he is not King Lear, but going about his ordinary life as-if he is King Lear is a very good analogy for self-remembering. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~But then most importantly, where he talks about the attention needing to go out and engage life at times, but then when this necessary going out is over the attention comes back to its source. It doesn't necessarily have to be this way. The attention can go out and stay in the source, simultaneously. In and out simultaneously. This is an actual form of self-remembering, What-- it-- is. The other analogy discussed, the film projected on-to the screen, if all of your attention is on the projected pictures on to the screen, this is not self-remembering. That is what identification is (one could say it is self-forgetting). Added note. If Spira is correct concerning self-remembering, his description of attention going out into life not being self-remembering, but attention coming back to source when the former is complete, being self-remembering, then he is putting limits on self-remembering. It is possible to remember oneself "always and everywhere". I think he agrees with what you are saying about about simultaneously touching an object and resting in the heart. His description perhaps is somewhat tepid, he says that awareness is the backdrop, or in the background. In mushin, it seems the objects are engaged from the perspective of stillness. I find that when the action is too fraught with tension, self remembering is tedious,almost like swimming against the tide. In mushin the opposite is true, engaging thought is like swimming against the tide. Swimming against the tide recalled a previous thread, Becoming more conscious is like juggling. zazeniac, you have something precious. You recognize what you face daily in ~reaching for~ mushin is not like "falling off a log", it is tedious, and is like swimming against the tide. Most here consider that an error, I will not elaborate, I think you will understand (that they say realizations supersede, etc.). Don't ever let anyone, zz included, take this away. |
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Sept 9, 2019 20:20:34 GMT -5
I think he agrees with what you are saying about about simultaneously touching an object and resting in the heart. His description perhaps is somewhat tepid, he says that awareness is the backdrop, or in the background. In mushin, it seems the objects are engaged from the perspective of stillness. I find that when the action is too fraught with tension, self remembering is tedious,almost like swimming against the tide. In mushin the opposite is true, engaging thought is like swimming against the tide. Swimming against the tide recalled a previous thread, Becoming more conscious is like juggling. zazeniac, you have something precious. You recognize what you face daily in ~reaching for~ mushin is not like "falling off a log", it is tedious, and is like swimming against the tide. Most here consider that an error, I will not elaborate, I think you will understand (that they say realizations supersede, etc.). Don't ever let anyone, zz included, take this away. Expend effort until it is clear that it's not about expending effort. |
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Sept 10, 2019 8:21:36 GMT -5
Swimming against the tide recalled a previous thread, Becoming more conscious is like juggling. zazeniac, you have something precious. You recognize what you face daily in ~reaching for~ mushin is not like "falling off a log", it is tedious, and is like swimming against the tide. Most here consider that an error, I will not elaborate, I think you will understand (that they say realizations supersede, etc.). Don't ever let anyone, zz included, take this away. Expend effort until it is clear that it's not about expending effort. An extremely-succinct summation. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2019 8:20:32 GMT -5
Swimming against the tide recalled a previous thread, Becoming more conscious is like juggling. zazeniac, you have something precious. You recognize what you face daily in ~reaching for~ mushin is not like "falling off a log", it is tedious, and is like swimming against the tide. Most here consider that an error, I will not elaborate, I think you will understand (that they say realizations supersede, etc.). Don't ever let anyone, zz included, take this away. Expend effort until it is clear that it's not about expending effort. I washed the dishes without a thought. If only I could post here like that. That would be freeing. |
|
