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Post by laughter on Mar 19, 2019 9:33:02 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?".
On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Mar 19, 2019 9:58:24 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". It's a foregone conclusion. Even the religious people who believe in souls still basically believe that they are their bodies. Yes, this forum is super atypical (at least in what people claim to believe). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 10:20:32 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood. Here's the dilemma. It's pretty easy to demonstrate with logic, that you cannot be your body, but it is equally easy to demonstrate with a pin that there is an inextricable connection between you and the body. This is why SR is such a tough nut. Now if I tell someone I am not the body and a pin prick elicits an "ouch," a bit of incredulity is a rational response. After all there's no "ouch" when the pin punctures the couch's skin. These are simple facts. This is why I prefer to say as little as possible and focus on a process that thwarts the habits of the mental mechanism. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 10:32:01 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood. Here's the dilemma. It's pretty easy to demonstrate with logic, that you cannot be your body, but it is equally easy to demonstrate with a pin that there is an inextricable connection between you and the body. This is why SR is such a tough nut. Now if I tell someone I am not the body and a pin prick elicits an "ouch," a bit of incredulity is a rational response. After all there's no "ouch" when the pin punctures the couch's skin. These are simple facts. This is why I prefer to say as little as possible and focus on a process that thwarts the habits of the mental mechanism. Why would you tell anyone? If you can feel that this someone only knows themselves as a body, why even mention it? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 10:39:09 GMT -5
Here's the dilemma. It's pretty easy to demonstrate with logic, that you cannot be your body, but it is equally easy to demonstrate with a pin that there is an inextricable connection between you and the body. This is why SR is such a tough nut. Now if I tell someone I am not the body and a pin prick elicits an "ouch," a bit of incredulity is a rational response. After all there's no "ouch" when the pin punctures the couch's skin. These are simple facts. This is why I prefer to say as little as possible and focus on a process that thwarts the habits of the mental mechanism. Why would you tell anyone? If you can feel that this someone only knows themselves as a body, why even mention it? I agree. But it happens frequently enough. I once tried to convince a friend of my wife, he did not exist. It didn't go well. Showing off? Strutting? Actually, his whining bothered me--I mean this body/mind. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 19, 2019 10:39:34 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". It's a foregone conclusion. Even the religious people who believe in souls still basically believe that they are their bodies. Yes, this forum is super atypical (at least in what people claim to believe). Yes, I think of that as a sense of identity that's different from realism, but still limited. The simplicity of it, ultimately, is this.  .. and to expand on it, peace is an absence, and belief and faith are actually antonyms. Any abstract notion related to identity or reality can serve as a kernel of falsehood, hiding in the subconscious, and there are a myriad plethora of them. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 10:45:12 GMT -5
Why would you tell anyone? If you can feel that this someone only knows themselves as a body, why even mention it? I agree. But it happens frequently enough. I once tried to convince a friend of my wife, he did not exist. It didn't go well. Showing off? Strutting? Actually, his whining bothered me--I mean this body/mind.So you tried deleting him from existence?  Have you since learnt that walking away is a proven method to get rid of whiners? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 10:51:27 GMT -5
I agree. But it happens frequently enough. I once tried to convince a friend of my wife, he did not exist. It didn't go well. Showing off? Strutting? Actually, his whining bothered me--I mean this body/mind.So you tried deleting him from existence? Have you since learnt that walking away is a proven method to get rid of whiners? Definitely, I've also seen there's somewhat of an appetite for cruelty to those I dislike. I catch myself now quite quickly, but sometimes after the fact still. I see that appetite abiding here in abundance. |
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Post by laughter on Mar 19, 2019 10:52:39 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood. Here's the dilemma. It's pretty easy to demonstrate with logic, that you cannot be your body, but it is equally easy to demonstrate with a pin that there is an inextricable connection between you and the body. This is why SR is such a tough nut. Now if I tell someone I am not the body and a pin prick elicits an "ouch," a bit of incredulity is a rational response. After all there's no "ouch" when the pin punctures the couch's skin. These are simple facts. This is why I prefer to say as little as possible and focus on a process that thwarts the habits of the mental mechanism. . I'd add though, that even the intellectual understanding of how the body is interconnected with the rest of the world can offer an opening to someone. It serves as something of an invitation. But the real treasure here is a non-conceptual consideration of the issue, approached by some method of silently opening up and attuning to what's happening. This focus is excellent, yes, and to my eye it's precisely what's described by: Niz : "refuse all thoughts but 'I AM'" Tolle : "watch the thinker" ZD : "attend the actual" diaper guy : "inquire as to whom the question arises" .. which might as well be "inquire as to what feels the sensation" Albert Low, interpreting the Buddha's Diamond Sutra : "arouse the mind, without resting it anywhere" Adya : "sit, and allow everything to be, exactly as it is" |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 11:33:19 GMT -5
So you tried deleting him from existence? Have you since learnt that walking away is a proven method to get rid of whiners? Definitely, I've also seen there's somewhat of an appetite for cruelty to those I dislike. I catch myself now quite quickly, but sometimes after the fact still. I see that appetite abiding here in abundance. Hmm, interesting. I've never truly disliked anyone, though I've disliked many people's nonsense. As people wiser than me have not always been happy with my nonsense. Just life innit. You may wanna just harden some boundaries rather than descending into cruelty. All hearts get hurt by cruelty. I may have mentioned before not to take what happens in here too seriously. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 12:23:25 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood. Here's the dilemma. It's pretty easy to demonstrate with logic, that you cannot be your body, but it is equally easy to demonstrate with a pin that there is an inextricable connection between you and the body. This is why SR is such a tough nut. Now if I tell someone I am not the body and a pin prick elicits an "ouch," a bit of incredulity is a rational response. After all there's no "ouch" when the pin punctures the couch's skin. These are simple facts. This is why I prefer to say as little as possible and focus on a process that thwarts the habits of the mental mechanism. The dilemma goes away when it's sen that the body, the pin, the poke, the pain, all of it is an arising to/within that which abides all of it..."Being/Awareness/Consciousness/I am." |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 12:45:47 GMT -5
Definitely, I've also seen there's somewhat of an appetite for cruelty to those I dislike. I catch myself now quite quickly, but sometimes after the fact still. I see that appetite abiding here in abundance. Hmm, interesting. I've never truly disliked anyone, though I've disliked many people's nonsense. As people wiser than me have not always been happy with my nonsense. Just life innit. You may wanna just harden some boundaries rather than descending into cruelty. All hearts get hurt by cruelty. I may have mentioned before not to take what happens in here too seriously. That's a better way to look at that. I can say that the more profound tendency is to respect and try to see the best in folks. "Love your enemies." To me that is much more jarring to the intellect than "you are not the body." |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Mar 19, 2019 15:12:07 GMT -5
How do you think the majority, if not an overwhelmingly large percentage of people, would reply if you asked them "are you your body?", or, "are you limited to your body?" or "is the source of your consciousness, your brain?". On a forum like this, there's an orientation toward the sense of identity which is almost taken for granted, that the individual is not limited to what is defined by the boundary of their skin. But some of us were acculturated to believe just that, and this conditioning runs deep into the subconscious. For me, I can say, that, at some point, there was specific non-conceptual inquiry that had to involve a neti-neti on "this body". I wouldn't expect everyone to have gone through a phase of questioning like that, but it's interesting to read some of the comments about it here, because it seems to me to be a topic that's sometimes misunderstood. It depends upon what any one person considers to constitute self. For example, Alex Honnold the Free Solo guy probably links himself very closely to the body, as he basically is climbing, and with no body, no climbing. self inquiry whittles down self to such an extent that ego-associations and body-associations cease to such an extent that there is not self left. So there is very little body-association. One's sense of identity comes down to information. The sense of not-being-a-self, but some____ else, comes down to awareness. ........... Most religious people would say they are not the body, because they believe in an afterlife. They might say they are a soul, even though they have no direct experience of what this might mean). Most non-religious people probably consider themselves to be body-based (they don't believe in an afterlife). |
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.. and to expand on it, peace is an absence, and belief and faith are actually antonyms. Any abstract notion related to identity or reality can serve as a kernel of falsehood, hiding in the subconscious, and there are a myriad plethora of them.
