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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 3:15:02 GMT -5
So what is of this No-thing that has the ability to make universes arise / manifest? It is nothing that can be grasped by mind. Which means it really is no-thing. Notice how your mind took 'no-thing' but still went ahead and asked for a description...? Once there's no longer an interest/impetus to do that, you'll know you're no longer conceptualizing a pointer. Those are both misconceived questions. Those must get seen through for the grasp on 'concepts' to fall away. Sure, I can buy into certain things that can't be grasped by mind, but that still leaves something there so to speak that can't be grasped lol. Do you see, it is no longer nothing per se, it is now rather more 'what you are that is beyond comprehension'.. What you are is all there is. For something to arise / manifest there has to be what you are at the heart of it . I am happy to agree that it's beyond conscious-self-knowing for what the reasons are for such manifestations and what cannot be comprehended may always remain a mystery to certain degrees but there is what you are present always so the buck has to stop here. Asking how is it possible for something to arise do you know will reflect what you know in relation to what you suggest about what is beyond quality. It's a fair question is it not?
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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 3:24:21 GMT -5
Well it started off I think, speaking about I AM not the body. If one understands that there is only what you are then there would not be the thought that I AM not the body as already said and as mentioned regarding the channel / medium that I spoke about where her body started to shut down on her because of her continual renouncement. If there is only what you are then one must on some level see the body or the appearance of an elephant as something else. Like said it doesn't work to encompass the concept of oneness and Self and then carry on down the same road saying things are empty of this and that etc etc, because these as said above are just more distinctions made from a drop in the ocean. I'm fine to say I am the body or I am not the body. I am the body as there is no separation and there is but one thingless thing that IS all of it. That said,the body is an ephemeral arising to/within that which abides.
I am that which abides AND that which arises and comes and goes....but that which comes and goes....eventually...goes...so what are we left with?
I see it quite simply that what you are always is and there is only that. You catch a glimpse of what you are in this world of duality by experiencing self awareness of the mind-body. When there is no longer any self reference made because there is no self awareness then what you are is present regardless. In my eyes when peeps speak about permanence and non permanence in relation to what we are, what comes and what goes etc is a bit of a red herring because what you are has always been present. Peeps try and distance what is not permanent from what they are. It's like taking your clothes off and saying self is no more .. well self is still present naked or not .
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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 3:32:28 GMT -5
It's easy for anyone to say something comes from nothing but do you know how or why something comes from nothing? You mean to say there's no evidence that something comes from nothing? The slippery fish as I see it is that if a peep doesn't know the answer for why something arises then they don't know how it does either. If they don't know how or why it does and points to the reasons or non reasons to be beyond mind comprehension then they negate their own suggestions that there isn't anything that pertains to qualities that are associated to what you are. For myself I would say what you are unmanifest/beyond mind has the means to create anything, because there is only what you are that creates and manifests. If such means are like said beyond comprehension, then it doesn't nullify such means.
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 22, 2019 3:34:15 GMT -5
what comes and what goes etc is a bit of a red herring because what you are has always been present. That's simply not true if it hasn't been realized, otherwise everyone would be realized. Just stating it doesn't make it true. Saying that there is only what you are is like saying blue is always blue to a blind man.
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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 3:46:32 GMT -5
what comes and what goes etc is a bit of a red herring because what you are has always been present. That's simply not true if it hasn't been realized, otherwise everyone would be realized. Just saying it doesn't it make it true. Saying that there is only what you are is like saying blue is always blue to a blind man. There is only what you are manifest or unmanifest. It doesn't matter if what you are creates a mind-body experience that lasts for 1 day, 1 year or a 100 years. For there to be the assumption that what doesn't last forever is not what you are is a bit of a red herring. There is only what you are present in everything. The referring to the impermanence is what you are referring. I don't think there is the understanding had for some in regards to everything being what you are. if there was there would not be this pointing out to what comes and goes, because what comes and goes is what you are. You can't divide anything from anything, just simply see certain manifestations as manifestations that don't last forever.. When the sand castle crumbles, it doesn't stop being sand ..
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 22, 2019 3:55:23 GMT -5
That's simply not true if it hasn't been realized, otherwise everyone would be realized. Just saying it doesn't it make it true. Saying that there is only what you are is like saying blue is always blue to a blind man. There is only what you are manifest or unmanifest. It doesn't matter if what you are creates a mind-body experience that lasts for 1 day, 1 year or a 100 years. For there to be the assumption that what doesn't last forever is not what you are is a bit of a red herring. There is only what you are present in everything. The referring to the impermanence is what you are referring. I don't think there is the understanding had for some in regards to everything being what you are. if there was there would not be this pointing out to what comes and goes, because what comes and goes is what you are. You can't divide anything from anything, just simply see certain manifestations as manifestations that don't last forever.. When the sand castle crumbles, it doesn't stop being sand .. Yeah so what? Water can only be water. There is only water in water. An ice cream is only what it is! What you're actually trying to talk about does not and cannot rely on any understanding. You're trying to push an understanding agenda. If realization depended on understanding then you would have to hold that understanding in your mind all the time so that you could express your understanding when it was required. The moment another thought came into your mind about what you are having for lunch you would no longer have the understanding and obviously that cannot be it. Something happens that takes you beyond all understanding and concepts and makes it completely unnecessary to read what you're writing here as if what you're saying is somehow useful as an aid to understanding that which is beyond understanding.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 4:00:13 GMT -5
Unless qualities are part of the manifestation, (They are) in which case prior to manifestation is qualityless. All that is necessary for everything to manifest is existence that is prior to manifestation. There you go. What is necessary for everything to manifest is existence. There has to be something that can be associated with what arises. Existence = what you are, for what else is there? You call it existence but as andy would say, it's not even that. Are your thoughts on existence based upon the experience of I AM existing of the mind? or are you speaking of existing beyond it. There is now the thought of existence of the mind and beyond, manifest and beyond, it's the same commonality as there is only what you are unmaninfest - manifest, of the mind and beyond. Just swapping references dat's all. It's easy for anyone to say something comes from nothing but do you know how or why something comes from nothing? I for the record don't consciously know the answer to that but peeps do lean towards God Godding and all that jazz, butt it would be guess work I would say.Saying God Godding is no different than saying Life Lifing, Formlessness Forming, Dao Daoing or This Thising. Creation Creating, Design Designing, Aliveness Aliving. They are all just descriptions of the how questiion.
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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 4:07:05 GMT -5
There you go. What is necessary for everything to manifest is existence. There has to be something that can be associated with what arises. Existence = what you are, for what else is there? You call it existence but as andy would say, it's not even that. Are your thoughts on existence based upon the experience of I AM existing of the mind? or are you speaking of existing beyond it. There is now the thought of existence of the mind and beyond, manifest and beyond, it's the same commonality as there is only what you are unmaninfest - manifest, of the mind and beyond. Just swapping references dat's all. It's easy for anyone to say something comes from nothing but do you know how or why something comes from nothing? I for the record don't consciously know the answer to that but peeps do lean towards God Godding and all that jazz, butt it would be guess work I would say.Saying God Godding is no different than saying Life Lifing, Formlessness Forming, Dao Daoing or This Thising. Creation Creating, Design Designing, Aliveness Aliving. They are all just descriptions of the how questiion. Sure, we can associate many metaphors describing what is happening and for the reasons why, but if a peep doesn't actually know the answer, perhaps for the reason given that it is beyond comprehension then they negate their own suggestion that beyond the mind there is nothing that is of any quality. You can't say things are beyond comprehension and then comprehend that there is no quality beyond ..
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Post by tenka on Mar 22, 2019 4:10:24 GMT -5
There is only what you are manifest or unmanifest. It doesn't matter if what you are creates a mind-body experience that lasts for 1 day, 1 year or a 100 years. For there to be the assumption that what doesn't last forever is not what you are is a bit of a red herring. There is only what you are present in everything. The referring to the impermanence is what you are referring. I don't think there is the understanding had for some in regards to everything being what you are. if there was there would not be this pointing out to what comes and goes, because what comes and goes is what you are. You can't divide anything from anything, just simply see certain manifestations as manifestations that don't last forever.. When the sand castle crumbles, it doesn't stop being sand .. Yeah so what? Water can only be water. There is only water in water. An ice cream is only what it is! What you're actually trying to talk about does not and cannot rely on any understanding. You're trying to push an understanding agenda. If realization depended on understanding then you would have to hold that understanding in your mind all the time so that you could express your understanding when it was required. The moment another thought came into your mind about what you are having for lunch you would no longer have the understanding and obviously that cannot be it. Something happens that takes you beyond all understanding and concepts and makes it completely unnecessary to read what you're writing here as if what you're saying is somehow useful as an aid to understanding that which is beyond understanding. You have concluded what you have based upon your own understanding and use that same understanding to negate mine lol. My understanding simply encompass everything based upon the realization that there is only what you are .. It's quite a basic and simple understanding that ripples across all self existential, experiential awareness ..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 4:11:07 GMT -5
Saying God Godding is no different than saying Life Lifing, Formlessness Forming, Dao Daoing or This Thising. Creation Creating, Design Designing, Aliveness Aliving. They are all just descriptions of the how questiion. Sure, we can associate many metaphors describing what is happening and for the reasons why, but if a peep doesn't actually know the answer, perhaps for the reason given that it is beyond comprehension then they negate their own suggestion that beyond the mind there is nothing that is of any quality. You can't say things are beyond comprehension and then comprehend that there is no quality beyond .. Potential Potentialling.
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Post by krsnaraja on Mar 22, 2019 4:14:58 GMT -5
You mean to say there's no evidence that something comes from nothing? The slippery fish as I see it is that if a peep doesn't know the answer for why something arises then they don't know how it does either. If they don't know how or why it does and points to the reasons or non reasons to be beyond mind comprehension then they negate their own suggestions that there isn't anything that pertains to qualities that are associated to what you are. For myself I would say what you are unmanifest/beyond mind has the means to create anything, because there is only what you are that creates and manifests. If such means are like said beyond comprehension, then it doesn't nullify such means. That's something to do with you creating a baby?
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 22, 2019 4:14:59 GMT -5
Yeah so what? Water can only be water. There is only water in water. An ice cream is only what it is! What you're actually trying to talk about does not and cannot rely on any understanding. You're trying to push an understanding agenda. If realization depended on understanding then you would have to hold that understanding in your mind all the time so that you could express your understanding when it was required. The moment another thought came into your mind about what you are having for lunch you would no longer have the understanding and obviously that cannot be it. Something happens that takes you beyond all understanding and concepts and makes it completely unnecessary to read what you're writing here as if what you're saying is somehow useful as an aid to understanding that which is beyond understanding. You have concluded what you have based upon your own understanding and use that same understanding to negate mine lol. My understanding simply encompass everything based upon the realization that there is only what you are .. It's quite a basic and simple understanding that ripples across all self existential, experiential awareness .. I'm not arguing with or disputing your understanding as you express it. I'm simply saying that telling someone there is only what you are isn't going to be of much help to them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 4:16:49 GMT -5
You say inner response changes after SR? By inner response do you mean mental response? I'm not in control of that. Do you still walk the same? Like, hasn't your walking groove changed. Isn't it more connected to Earth, and God?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 4:19:15 GMT -5
You have concluded what you have based upon your own understanding and use that same understanding to negate mine lol. My understanding simply encompass everything based upon the realization that there is only what you are .. It's quite a basic and simple understanding that ripples across all self existential, experiential awareness .. I'm not arguing with or disputing your understanding as you express it. I'm simply saying that telling someone there is only what you are isn't going to be of much help to them. Is that because the style of language always sets up a 'what you are not'?
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 22, 2019 4:20:08 GMT -5
By inner response do you mean mental response? I'm not in control of that. Do you still walk the same? Like, hasn't your walking groove changed. Isn't it more connected to Earth, and God? What an interesting idea! I've reduced my intake of carbohydrates quite considerably. Does that help?
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