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Post by satchitananda on Mar 16, 2019 4:01:18 GMT -5
Who Am I is not a koan. That's not at all what Ramana Maharshi and others taught. Who am I is to be still by suspending thought. It is the most direct path to awakening. There are many paths to becoming still. In the Zen tradition any existential question is a koan, and any koan can be resolved via contemplation. Koans are not repeated endlessly, and they are not resolved via the mind. Resolving a koan involves a realization that then informs mind. Realizations come from beyond mind. From a practical standpoint there's no real difference between Ramana's suggested usage of "Who am I?" too attain stillness and the approach I wrote about. In both cases attention is shifted away from thoughts which leads to stillness and existential realizations. Correct, there is no substantial difference. In fact I was thinking that when I wrote the post but somehow I didn't include the comment. |
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 16, 2019 4:08:16 GMT -5
Seeing through the idea of personhood is complete nonsense. No common ground. There is no seeing through personhood because that implies there is nothing there. It is seeing that there is no difference between personhood and God. That's the real seeing. There is no such thing as falsehood and illusion because everything is YOU. But there is illusion until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke. God is playing with itself wearing a make believe costume. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2019 7:46:44 GMT -5
There is no seeing through personhood because that implies there is nothing there. It is seeing that there is no difference between personhood and God. That's the real seeing. There is no such thing as falsehood and illusion because everything is YOU. But there is illusion until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke. God is playing with itself wearing a make believe costume. English as a second language?  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 11:25:26 GMT -5
There is no seeing through personhood because that implies there is nothing there. It is seeing that there is no difference between personhood and God. That's the real seeing. There is no such thing as falsehood and illusion because everything is YOU. But there is illusion until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke. God is playing with itself wearing a make believe costume. English as a second language? "...until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke." 
And....while I've got your attention, can I ask ZD, why you often refuse to answer my pointy questions? I suspect that IF you actually reply you'll say something about TMT....or ulterior motives of some sort you see to be behind my questions.
What I'm really after is open conversation based upon the highest degree of clarity possible and there's a few here with whom that seems to be an impossibility because as soon as questions start arising that get difficult to answer, they disengage.
If there truly is no-thing to defend, why shut down the conversation when the other starts asking questions? There's really nothing I can say to convince anyone that my questions are sincere, but they are, and they are far more about an interest in Truth than in tearing down the character correlated with the words on the screen.
E, Satchi, Gopal, SomeNothing, Andrew (perhaps more in the past where I'm concerned), Zaz, Max, Lolly, all are folks here who actually converse, engage deeply and even if/when challenge arises, they generally won't back away, and the conversations that thus ensue, have the potential to be something more than just one wise sage espousing his Truth to the other, up until the other says, yes, BUT.
In short, you seem to be very averse to having your views challenged in any way. You much prefer espousing advice here rather than actually conversing (as in comparing ideas and delving deeper into that). Am I wrong?
I DO grasp that there is a point in any conversation where it's reached an impasse, but it just seems you disengage long before that happens and just when the conversation seems to be going somewhere.
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2019 11:43:03 GMT -5
English as a second language? "...until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke." And....while I've got your attention, can I ask ZD, why you often refuse to answer my pointy questions? I suspect that IF you actually reply you'll say something about TMT....or ulterior motives of some sort you see to be behind my questions.
What I'm really after is open conversation based upon the highest degree of clarity possible and there's a few here with whom that seems to be an impossibility because as soon as questions start arising that get difficult to answer, they disengage.
If there truly is no-thing to defend, why shut down the conversation when the other starts asking questions? There's really nothing I can say to convince anyone that my questions are sincere, but they are, and they are far more about an interest in Truth than in tearing down the character correlated with the words on the screen.
E, Satchi, Gopal, SomeNothing, Andrew (perhaps more in the past where I'm concerned), Zaz, Max, Lolly, all are folks here who actually converse, engage deeply and even if/when challenge arises, they generally won't back away, and the conversations that thus ensue, have the potential to be something more than just one wise sage espousing his Truth to the other, up until the other says, yes, BUT.
In short, you seem to be very averse to having your views challenged in any way. You much prefer espousing advice here rather than actually conversing (as in comparing ideas and delving deeper into that). Am I wrong?
I DO grasp that there is a point in any conversation where it's reached an impasse, but it just seems you disengage long before that happens and just when the conversation seems to be going somewhere.
I disengage when I lose interest. Your interest is obviously greater than mine. Cheers. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 11:55:43 GMT -5
"...until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke." And....while I've got your attention, can I ask ZD, why you often refuse to answer my pointy questions? I suspect that IF you actually reply you'll say something about TMT....or ulterior motives of some sort you see to be behind my questions.
What I'm really after is open conversation based upon the highest degree of clarity possible and there's a few here with whom that seems to be an impossibility because as soon as questions start arising that get difficult to answer, they disengage.
If there truly is no-thing to defend, why shut down the conversation when the other starts asking questions? There's really nothing I can say to convince anyone that my questions are sincere, but they are, and they are far more about an interest in Truth than in tearing down the character correlated with the words on the screen.
E, Satchi, Gopal, SomeNothing, Andrew (perhaps more in the past where I'm concerned), Zaz, Max, Lolly, all are folks here who actually converse, engage deeply and even if/when challenge arises, they generally won't back away, and the conversations that thus ensue, have the potential to be something more than just one wise sage espousing his Truth to the other, up until the other says, yes, BUT.
In short, you seem to be very averse to having your views challenged in any way. You much prefer espousing advice here rather than actually conversing (as in comparing ideas and delving deeper into that). Am I wrong?
I DO grasp that there is a point in any conversation where it's reached an impasse, but it just seems you disengage long before that happens and just when the conversation seems to be going somewhere.
I disengage when I lose interest. Your interest is obviously greater than mine. Cheers. Yeah. That makes sense. You are not interested in having your views challenged. That is actually quite clear.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:00:12 GMT -5
There is no seeing through personhood because that implies there is nothing there. It is seeing that there is no difference between personhood and God. That's the real seeing. There is no such thing as falsehood and illusion because everything is YOU. But there is illusion until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke. God is playing with itself wearing a make believe costume. Seeing through the illusion of personal self-hood perfectly makes sense for me. You believe yourself to be something but then you see through the illusion that you are not that. |
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 16, 2019 12:10:33 GMT -5
There is no seeing through personhood because that implies there is nothing there. It is seeing that there is no difference between personhood and God. That's the real seeing. There is no such thing as falsehood and illusion because everything is YOU. But there is illusion until we discover everything is one and then there isn't illusion. It's a cosmic joke. God is playing with itself wearing a make believe costume. Seeing through the illusion of personal self-hood perfectly makes sense for me. You believe yourself to be something but then you see through the illusion that you are not that. The illusion is separation not personhood. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:14:15 GMT -5
Seeing through the illusion of personal self-hood perfectly makes sense for me. You believe yourself to be something but then you see through the illusion that you are not that. The illusion is separation not personhood. Personhood is obviously believed by all people who has born in this earth. Once upon a time you believed yourself to be person who directs your life, this must have happened until the day you meet up with your realization that you are not the doer or you are not the little guy who is inside the head who directs your life. That's what he is referring as 'Seeing through the illusion of Personhood'. |
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 16, 2019 12:17:29 GMT -5
The illusion is separation not personhood. Personhood is obviously believed by all people who has born in this earth. Once upon a time you believed yourself to be person who directs your life, this must have happened until the day you meet up with your realization that you are not the doer or you are not the little guy who is inside the head who directs your life. That's what he is referring as 'Seeing through the illusion of Personhood'. But there is still personhood operating. The program is still running. There is no bug in the code. |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2019 12:42:46 GMT -5
The illusion is separation not personhood. Personhood is obviously believed by all people who has born in this earth. Once upon a time you believed yourself to be person who directs your life, this must have happened until the day you meet up with your realization that you are not the doer or you are not the little guy who is inside the head who directs your life. That's what he is referring as 'Seeing through the illusion of Personhood'. Exactly! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:50:32 GMT -5
Personhood is obviously believed by all people who has born in this earth. Once upon a time you believed yourself to be person who directs your life, this must have happened until the day you meet up with your realization that you are not the doer or you are not the little guy who is inside the head who directs your life. That's what he is referring as 'Seeing through the illusion of Personhood'. But there is still personhood operating. The program is still running. There is no bug in the code. If it's operating, then illusion is not seen yet, what else? |
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Post by satchitananda on Mar 16, 2019 12:52:56 GMT -5
But there is still personhood operating. The program is still running. There is no bug in the code. If it's operating, then illusion is not seen yet, what else? Lol if it's not operating you're dead! |
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Post by zendancer on Mar 16, 2019 12:55:18 GMT -5
Personhood is obviously believed by all people who has born in this earth. Once upon a time you believed yourself to be person who directs your life, this must have happened until the day you meet up with your realization that you are not the doer or you are not the little guy who is inside the head who directs your life. That's what he is referring as 'Seeing through the illusion of Personhood'. But there is still personhood operating. The program is still running. There is no bug in the code. When the "little guy in the head" vanished, that ended the search because it then became obvious who the real searcher had been. The little guy has now been gone for 19 years, and all I can say is, "Good riddance!l Life without having to search for anything is well worth searching for. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:55:21 GMT -5
If it's operating, then illusion is not seen yet, what else? Lol if it's not operating you're dead! Do you see the difference between life is being witnessed and life is being controlled and protected? If the first one is happening, then illusion of personal selfhood is not in the play, If you second one is happening, then obviously selfhood is in play. |
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