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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 8:32:43 GMT -5
Quote from the Bible :" In the beginning was the Word. The Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us." So, what is that Word that is God? It's " Uha! Uha! Uha! " I enjoy asking people who are stuck on words and spend most of their time thinking, "If you were isolated on a desert island with no books of any kind, how could you find the living truth?" Hint: There's only one way, and it doesn't involve words or thoughts. Words are helpful as pointers, but they're not absolutely necessary. It's possible to find the truth without books or teachers. Books and teachers are only signposts that point to the ineffable. The wise look where the signposts are pointing, and don't get attached to the signage. If I were isolated in an island without books how will I find the living truth? Why should I be doing that? I be busy trying to survive in that island by myself. Then try to find a way to escape from the isolation by building a boat. Besides before I was placed in the island, I was baptized a Catholic. So, my personal living truth is the Holy Spirit who dwells in my heart, He who gives me strength to stay alive. There's thoughts to keep me company. Guiding me in this journey.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 8:45:01 GMT -5
"Books are the plane, and the train, and the road. They are the destination, and the journey. They are home." Anna Quindlen, How Reading Changed My Life A far more powerful book would be titled, "How Silence Can Change Your Life." By Simon Garfunkel Fools, " said I, "You do not know Silence, like a cancer, grows Hear my words that I might teach you Take my arms that I might reach you But my words, like silent raindrops fell And echoed in the wells, of silence "
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 9:59:08 GMT -5
A far more powerful book would be titled, "How Silence Can Change Your Life." By Simon Garfunkel Fools, " said I, "You do not know Silence, like a cancer, grows Hear my words that I might teach you Take my arms that I might reach you But my words, like silent raindrops fell And echoed in the wells, of silence " The clue was in your noticing that thoughts poured out of you when it was your turn to speak in your bi-monthly group meeting. But when others spoke it was not interesting. Examine that. Why are "my" thoughts so auspicious and the thoughts of others uninteresting? Not that I'm any different than you. Other than that I am curious about that fact.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 10:57:21 GMT -5
By Simon Garfunkel Fools, " said I, "You do not know Silence, like a cancer, grows Hear my words that I might teach you Take my arms that I might reach you But my words, like silent raindrops fell And echoed in the wells, of silence " The clue was in your noticing that thoughts poured out of you when it was your turn to speak in your bi-monthly group meeting. But when others spoke it was not interesting. Examine that. Why are "my" thoughts so auspicious and the thoughts of others uninteresting? Not that I'm any different than you. Other than that I am curious about that fact. Our Bible reading group and the priest guide knew my spiritual upbringing. Although I was raised a Catholic, I was also into yoga, Hare Krsna New Age religion. I often times when asked to speak, I talked to them about karma and reincarnation. Which I don't want to pursue because of their Catholic orientation. They are all my friends. I don't want to create a gap between me and the rest of the group. When we discuss passages in the Bible, I keep to myself not saying anything which might contradict their views. I rather in the gathering not saying a word . Keeping my innermost thoughts to myself. That's why I say it's a journey because these thoughts lead me to places the group would not want to be in the first place . The problem comes forth me not speaking giving the group uneasy sense I am aloof or disinterested. Of course I want to be in the meeting being comfortable if I just don't say something. Yet when I listen to all their stories, I felt I have heard them before. The time I spent with these kind of interaction makes me want to do something else. I keep staring at my watch telling myself when will this gonna be over. When it's done, there's food and drink served on the table. It's this part when the group gossips and tell themselves this and that. So what else is new? When I just want to be silent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 11:20:05 GMT -5
The clue was in your noticing that thoughts poured out of you when it was your turn to speak in your bi-monthly group meeting. But when others spoke it was not interesting. Examine that. Why are "my" thoughts so auspicious and the thoughts of others uninteresting? Not that I'm any different than you. Other than that I am curious about that fact. Our Bible reading group and the priest guide knew my spiritual upbringing. Although I was raised a Catholic, I was also into yoga, Hare Krsna New Age religion. I often times when asked to speak, I talked to them about karma and reincarnation. Which I don't want to pursue because of their Catholic orientation. They are all my friends. I don't to want create a gap between me and the rest of the group. When we discuss passages in Bible, I keep to myself not saying anything which might contradict their views. I rather in the gathering not saying a word at all. Keeping my innermost thoughts to myself. That's why I say it's a journey because these thoughts lead me to places the group would not want to be in in the first place . The problem comes forth me not speaking at all giving the group uneasy sense maybe I am aloof or disinterested. Of course I want to be in the meeting being comfortable if I just don't say something. Yet when I listen to all their stories, I felt I have heard them before. The time I spent with these kind of interaction makes me want me to do something else. I keep staring at my watch telling myself when will this gonna be over. When it's done, there's food and drink served on the table. It's this part when the group gossips and tell themselves this and that. So what else is new? When I just want to keep silent. I understand now. I was not listening preoccupied with what I was thinking and saying. I put my thoughts into your words, projecting. Now that I read it carefully, I understand. My mistake. Apologies. My thoughts get me in trouble quite often. The whole thinking machine is weird. Sometimes I feel not saying anything is so much better, but then you wouldn't have these "aha" learning moments.
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Post by enigma on Feb 21, 2019 11:25:00 GMT -5
Not at all. Scholars need words. Sages teach by example. The goal is not to acquire knowledge. The goal is to embody knowledge, to be living in knowledge or knowing. And that can't be taught. It takes a realization. No one can give you that realization. And you can't make it happen either. Now what are you going to do? What would you become today without words /thoughts to live by? How can you impart the technique of self - realization if you do not start learning from the thoughts/words from teachers of self - realization? Where did you get your knowledge if you don't read books which contain thoughts from the authors? What I am going to do? Read and learn from others who possess thoughts who put you into some journey. Self - realization? Where will you go. You need thoughts in finding your destination. Self realization is not a technique, it can't be taught.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 11:39:48 GMT -5
Our Bible reading group and the priest guide knew my spiritual upbringing. Although I was raised a Catholic, I was also into yoga, Hare Krsna New Age religion. I often times when asked to speak, I talked to them about karma and reincarnation. Which I don't want to pursue because of their Catholic orientation. They are all my friends. I don't to want create a gap between me and the rest of the group. When we discuss passages in Bible, I keep to myself not saying anything which might contradict their views. I rather in the gathering not saying a word at all. Keeping my innermost thoughts to myself. That's why I say it's a journey because these thoughts lead me to places the group would not want to be in in the first place . The problem comes forth me not speaking at all giving the group uneasy sense maybe I am aloof or disinterested. Of course I want to be in the meeting being comfortable if I just don't say something. Yet when I listen to all their stories, I felt I have heard them before. The time I spent with these kind of interaction makes me want me to do something else. I keep staring at my watch telling myself when will this gonna be over. When it's done, there's food and drink served on the table. It's this part when the group gossips and tell themselves this and that. So what else is new? When I just want to keep silent. I understand now. I was not listening preoccupied with what I was thinking and saying. I put my thoughts into your words, projecting. Now that I read it carefully, I understand. My mistake. Apologies. My thoughts get me in trouble quite often. The whole thinking machine is weird. Sometimes I feel not saying anything is so much better, but then you wouldn't have these "aha" learning moments. Yes, Zazen, you got it right. I rather be silent regarding what others talk about because I have this funny feeling of misinterpreting what actually they mean regarding a particular issue or topic. I get only to speak when the priest want me to say something. Being the only Physician in the group. They want to hear me say that they can bring with them a good word /thought from me for the night. If I keep silent the group perhaps will think otherwise. What I want is for my wife to speak to the group what she thinks about herself and also in my behalf. That would really make my day.
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Post by enigma on Feb 21, 2019 11:46:04 GMT -5
Our Bible reading group and the priest guide knew my spiritual upbringing. Although I was raised a Catholic, I was also into yoga, Hare Krsna New Age religion. I often times when asked to speak, I talked to them about karma and reincarnation. Which I don't want to pursue because of their Catholic orientation. They are all my friends. I don't to want create a gap between me and the rest of the group. When we discuss passages in Bible, I keep to myself not saying anything which might contradict their views. I rather in the gathering not saying a word at all. Keeping my innermost thoughts to myself. That's why I say it's a journey because these thoughts lead me to places the group would not want to be in in the first place . The problem comes forth me not speaking at all giving the group uneasy sense maybe I am aloof or disinterested. Of course I want to be in the meeting being comfortable if I just don't say something. Yet when I listen to all their stories, I felt I have heard them before. The time I spent with these kind of interaction makes me want me to do something else. I keep staring at my watch telling myself when will this gonna be over. When it's done, there's food and drink served on the table. It's this part when the group gossips and tell themselves this and that. So what else is new? When I just want to keep silent. I understand now. I was not listening preoccupied with what I was thinking and saying. I put my thoughts into your words, projecting. Now that I read it carefully, I understand. My mistake. Apologies. My thoughts get me in trouble quite often. The whole thinking machine is weird. Sometimes I feel not saying anything is so much better, but then you wouldn't have these "aha" learning moments. What thoughts did you put into his words?
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 11:51:51 GMT -5
What would you become today without words /thoughts to live by? How can you impart the technique of self - realization if you do not start learning from the thoughts/words from teachers of self - realization? Where did you get your knowledge if you don't read books which contain thoughts from the authors? What I am going to do? Read and learn from others who possess thoughts who put you into some journey. Self - realization? Where will you go. You need thoughts in finding your destination. Self realization is not a technique, it can't be taught. If SR isn't a technique then it's a process. SR can't be taught because there aren't any instructions given by the teacher on how to achieve it. So, what to do if SR can't be reached through books, words and thoughts? Then I won't take it! It won't hurt at all if I'm not self - realized. I'll find some other way to make my thoughts blissful and happy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 11:59:16 GMT -5
I understand now. I was not listening preoccupied with what I was thinking and saying. I put my thoughts into your words, projecting. Now that I read it carefully, I understand. My mistake. Apologies. My thoughts get me in trouble quite often. The whole thinking machine is weird. Sometimes I feel not saying anything is so much better, but then you wouldn't have these "aha" learning moments. Yes, Zazen, you got it right. I rather be silent regarding what others talk about because I have this funny feeling of misinterpreting what actually they mean regarding a particular issue or topic. I get only to speak when the priest want me to say something. Being the only Physician in the group. They want to hear me say that they can bring with them a good word /thought from me for the night. If I keep silent the group perhaps will think otherwise. What I want is for my wife to speak to the group what she thinks about herself and also in my behalf. That would really make my day. I have a Christian friend. He is quite a decent person, kind and non-jugemental. I love him. But I avoid religious discussions with him, though he persistently tries to save me, kind of like E. When he asks about my beliefs--he knows nothing about them, not even that I practice zazen--iI tell him I believe God is everything. God is responsible for everything, even the billiard balls moving when we play pool. He does not like that and changes the subject.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 12:12:02 GMT -5
Yes, Zazen, you got it right. I rather be silent regarding what others talk about because I have this funny feeling of misinterpreting what actually they mean regarding a particular issue or topic. I get only to speak when the priest want me to say something. Being the only Physician in the group. They want to hear me say that they can bring with them a good word /thought from me for the night. If I keep silent the group perhaps will think otherwise. What I want is for my wife to speak to the group what she thinks about herself and also in my behalf. That would really make my day. I have a Christian friend. He is quite a decent person, kind and non-jugemental. I love him. But I avoid religious discussions with him, though he persistently tries to save me, kind of like E. When he asks about my beliefs--he knows nothing about them, not even that I practice zazen--iI tell him I believe God is everything. God is responsible for everything, even the billiard balls moving when we play pool. He does not like that and changes the subject. Maybe your friend needs 1-2 lifetimes more before he can reach your level. But it's okay It's always our kind who goes down to his level for friendship to stay. With love friends transcend differences.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 12:53:49 GMT -5
I have a Christian friend. He is quite a decent person, kind and non-jugemental. I love him. But I avoid religious discussions with him, though he persistently tries to save me, kind of like E. When he asks about my beliefs--he knows nothing about them, not even that I practice zazen--iI tell him I believe God is everything. God is responsible for everything, even the billiard balls moving when we play pool. He does not like that and changes the subject. Maybe your friend needs 1-2 lifetimes more before he can reach your level. But it's okay It's always our kind who goes down to his level for friendship to stay. With love friends transcend differences. Remember what Jesus said when the disciples were arguing about who was best. "The least among you is the greatest." He didn't like hierarchies, neither do I.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 12:55:00 GMT -5
I understand now. I was not listening preoccupied with what I was thinking and saying. I put my thoughts into your words, projecting. Now that I read it carefully, I understand. My mistake. Apologies. My thoughts get me in trouble quite often. The whole thinking machine is weird. Sometimes I feel not saying anything is so much better, but then you wouldn't have these "aha" learning moments. What thoughts did you put into his words? That his thoughts poured out of him when it was his turn to speak.
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Post by krsnaraja on Feb 21, 2019 18:58:49 GMT -5
Maybe your friend needs 1-2 lifetimes more before he can reach your level. But it's okay It's always our kind who goes down to his level for friendship to stay. With love friends transcend differences. Remember what Jesus said when the disciples were arguing about who was best. "The least among you is the greatest." He didn't like hierarchies, neither do I. I was wondering what life would be in Jesus time if there were already in existence, bars of scented soap, toothpaste, toothbrush and sanitary napkins. Maybe the haters of Jesus won't be too hostile in punishing him by crucifixion. People would be more concern with physical hygiene and polishing their nails. Thanks to science.
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Post by enigma on Feb 21, 2019 19:42:18 GMT -5
Self realization is not a technique, it can't be taught. If SR isn't a technique then it's a process. SR can't be taught because there aren't any instructions given by the teacher on how to achieve it. So, what to do if SR can't be reached through books, words and thoughts? Then I won't take it! It won't hurt at all if I'm not self - realized. I'll find some other way to make my thoughts blissful and happy. The problem with SR is that it's too obvious to be sought. There cannot be a path to the obvious as all moment must necessarily be away from what is already here, already known in the absence of false knowing. And so, it is all about eliminating that false knowing, and yet the only thing that can eliminate it for certain is SR. This eliminating is what we call seeing through illusions, and it's all I talk about.
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