|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 16, 2019 18:10:03 GMT -5
ZD makes no provision for saving energy, transforming energy and accumulating energy. Not sure what this means. Can you say it differently or give an example of something ZD said demonstrating your point? I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes".
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 16, 2019 18:34:04 GMT -5
So it's the 'true self' that's acting, whether it's through a correct sense of self or an erroneous one. ZD would agree that it's what you are that is acting in both cases as there is only what you are. The whole thing about literal seeds and reactivation seems overly complicated to me, but maybe we can agree that ultimately what you are steps into the foreground and mind steps into the background, even though mind is not other than what you are, it ceases to be master and continues in it's proper role as a tool. My suspicion has always been that most of the differences you see are really just languaging and your insistence upon a detailed story of awakening. On the issue of 'further', I don't have much to say as how much further one needs to go depends entirely on how far one has come. See response to justlikeyou. If there is a free flow of energy (no boundary) then energy cannot be accumulated. By analogy, if this were the operation in human affairs, a baby would forever remain a baby. (That's why the human boundary is semipermeable, it's a boundary without being a boundary). to me, the idea of accumulating and transforming energy falls into the same category of over complicated. I'm not much for actual boundaries anywhere, and I'm uncertain what you mean by the human boundary. Again, I'm left wondering where the actual disagreement is.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 16, 2019 18:52:57 GMT -5
Not sure what this means. Can you say it differently or give an example of something ZD said demonstrating your point? I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes". Maybe Uncle Bruce knew your bale throwing limits were psychological rather than physical, and he knew how to demonstrate that to you. After repeatedly throwing 'one more bale', mind would have to reconsider it's declaration that you can't throw one more bale. You see, for me everything comes back to consciousness, because there is only consciousness.
|
|
|
Post by someNOTHING! on Jan 16, 2019 20:00:38 GMT -5
Not sure what this means. Can you say it differently or give an example of something ZD said demonstrating your point? I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes". Always nice to hear hayfield memories. I, too, worked summer's at my grandparents' farms where the larger theme (outside of cattle, mending fences, tending water sources, etc. in INTENSE summer heat) centered on halling between 800-1000 bales. I got to learn driving trucks and tractors from age 9, but also lived intimately the life. To this day, I still get a little giggle listening to the uninitiated talk about how they'd like to go back to farm lifestyles of yore, raise their own stock, grow their own gardens, and all the rest, not truly appreciating how quickly the romance wears off, hehe. As for the energy accumulation while working, do you remember the feeling of being tired correlating with the amount or intensity of self-referential thought? It could be subtle stuff like, "I am tired/when are we gonna be done/why's my dad such a... Or, on the other hand, was the energized feeling something of an afterthought of what transpired when, perhaps, you were actually in a flow state, lacking any self? The reason I ask is I'm wondering about how we often apply labels and reason to events in hindsight when, in fact, such "things" were not even in mind at the time. Sure, perhaps the larger picture is more or less factual, but then we typically modify, select, embellish, and even contort memory to fit more contemporary mindsets that have evolved.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 16, 2019 20:52:30 GMT -5
I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes". Always nice to hear hayfield memories. I, too, worked summer's at my grandparents' farms where the larger theme (outside of cattle, mending fences, tending water sources, etc. in INTENSE summer heat) centered on halling between 800-1000 bales. I got to learn driving trucks and tractors from age 9, but also lived intimately the life. To this day, I still get a little giggle listening to the uninitiated talk about how they'd like to go back to farm lifestyles of yore, raise their own stock, grow their own gardens, and all the rest, not truly appreciating how quickly the romance wears off, hehe. As for the energy accumulation while working, do you remember the feeling of being tired correlating with the amount or intensity of self-referential thought? It could be subtle stuff like, "I am tired/when are we gonna be done/why's my dad such a... Or, on the other hand, was the energized feeling something of an afterthought of what transpired when, perhaps, you were actually in a flow state, lacking any self? The reason I ask is I'm wondering about how we often apply labels and reason to events in hindsight when, in fact, such "things" were not even in mind at the time. Sure, perhaps the larger picture is more or less factual, but then we typically modify, select, embellish, and even contort memory to fit more contemporary mindsets that have evolved. Yea...most people have no idea. My uncle was a dairy farmer. That means he milked cows twice a day, every day. No days off. As he had no sons he set up to milk two cows at a time. He had a vacation maybe once every 5-10 years, he had a neighbor who could milk in emergency. There wasn't a psychological factor in the hay loading incident, it was as described. There wasn't a reexamination of the events afterwards. I have described here another occurrence which entails exhausting the thinking center. Shortly after they came out I bought a Rubic's Cube. That weekend we went to rhe beach. I worked the cube one day virtually without stopping, over eight hours, probably 10-11. My mind literally ceased being able to think. I just stopped doing the cube. I knew I had used up available energy for thought (a different quality of energy than for movement, BTW). Mind was back to normal the next day.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 16, 2019 21:03:54 GMT -5
See response to justlikeyou. If there is a free flow of energy (no boundary) then energy cannot be accumulated. By analogy, if this were the operation in human affairs, a baby would forever remain a baby. (That's why the human boundary is semipermeable, it's a boundary without being a boundary). to me, the idea of accumulating and transforming energy falls into the same category of over complicated. I'm not much for actual boundaries anywhere, and I'm uncertain what you mean by the human boundary. Again, I'm left wondering where the actual disagreement is. The body has limits, that's just a fact. How long can you go without sleep? I went 30 hours once, that was probably my limit. Every day consciousness gets trumped...
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 16, 2019 21:10:22 GMT -5
I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes". Maybe Uncle Bruce knew your bale throwing limits were psychological rather than physical, and he knew how to demonstrate that to you. After repeatedly throwing 'one more bale', mind would have to reconsider it's declaration that you can't throw one more bale. You see, for me everything comes back to consciousness, because there is only consciousness. Every day consciousness gets trumped, by sleep.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jan 17, 2019 7:46:31 GMT -5
Physical energy level varies all the time, sometimes for very specific reasons, and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. The "free-flow of energy" I was referring to has nothing to do with physical energy; it refers to the collapse of the psychological boundary between "inside" and "outside" after the illusion of selfhood has been seen through. It's what allows a human to feel at-one with "what is," and it's what the word "flow" points to.
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2019 11:34:27 GMT -5
Always nice to hear hayfield memories. I, too, worked summer's at my grandparents' farms where the larger theme (outside of cattle, mending fences, tending water sources, etc. in INTENSE summer heat) centered on halling between 800-1000 bales. I got to learn driving trucks and tractors from age 9, but also lived intimately the life. To this day, I still get a little giggle listening to the uninitiated talk about how they'd like to go back to farm lifestyles of yore, raise their own stock, grow their own gardens, and all the rest, not truly appreciating how quickly the romance wears off, hehe. As for the energy accumulation while working, do you remember the feeling of being tired correlating with the amount or intensity of self-referential thought? It could be subtle stuff like, "I am tired/when are we gonna be done/why's my dad such a... Or, on the other hand, was the energized feeling something of an afterthought of what transpired when, perhaps, you were actually in a flow state, lacking any self? The reason I ask is I'm wondering about how we often apply labels and reason to events in hindsight when, in fact, such "things" were not even in mind at the time. Sure, perhaps the larger picture is more or less factual, but then we typically modify, select, embellish, and even contort memory to fit more contemporary mindsets that have evolved. Yea...most people have no idea. My uncle was a dairy farmer. That means he milked cows twice a day, every day. No days off. As he had no sons he set up to milk two cows at a time. He had a vacation maybe once every 5-10 years, he had a neighbor who could milk in emergency. There wasn't a psychological factor in the hay loading incident, it was as described. There wasn't a reexamination of the events afterwards. I have described here another occurrence which entails exhausting the thinking center. Shortly after they came out I bought a Rubic's Cube. That weekend we went to rhe beach. I worked the cube one day virtually without stopping, over eight hours, probably 10-11. My mind literally ceased being able to think. I just stopped doing the cube. I knew I had used up available energy for thought (a different quality of energy than for movement, BTW). Mind was back to normal the next day. It wasn't that you got sick and tired of thinking about the cube after 10 hours straight?
|
|
|
Post by enigma on Jan 17, 2019 11:43:24 GMT -5
to me, the idea of accumulating and transforming energy falls into the same category of over complicated. I'm not much for actual boundaries anywhere, and I'm uncertain what you mean by the human boundary. Again, I'm left wondering where the actual disagreement is. The body has limits, that's just a fact. How long can you go without sleep? I went 30 hours once, that was probably my limit. Every day consciousness gets trumped... Okay, you mean physical limits. So ZD believes there are or aren't physical limits?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 17, 2019 13:02:37 GMT -5
The body has limits, that's just a fact. How long can you go without sleep? I went 30 hours once, that was probably my limit. Every day consciousness gets trumped... Okay, you mean physical limits. So ZD believes there are or aren't physical limits? He spoke to that. I'll get around to a reply to him. Basically, there is some link between everything, we don't live in a Cartesian universe where there is (nonmaterial) mind stuff and material body stuff. So you can't really make the division he makes.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 17, 2019 13:09:30 GMT -5
Yea...most people have no idea. My uncle was a dairy farmer. That means he milked cows twice a day, every day. No days off. As he had no sons he set up to milk two cows at a time. He had a vacation maybe once every 5-10 years, he had a neighbor who could milk in emergency. There wasn't a psychological factor in the hay loading incident, it was as described. There wasn't a reexamination of the events afterwards. I have described here another occurrence which entails exhausting the thinking center. Shortly after they came out I bought a Rubic's Cube. That weekend we went to rhe beach. I worked the cube one day virtually without stopping, over eight hours, probably 10-11. My mind literally ceased being able to think. I just stopped doing the cube. I knew I had used up available energy for thought (a different quality of energy than for movement, BTW). Mind was back to normal the next day. It wasn't that you got sick and tired of thinking about the cube after 10 hours straight? No. I used to be a "mechanical" puzzle person, liked doing I guess you would call them 3-D puzzles. It was not unusual for me to work on a puzzle until I got it done. So no, my mind just refused to focus any longer. I'm sure you've worked before to virtual complete exhaustion...maybe meeting a deadline. ?
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 17, 2019 16:01:04 GMT -5
Physical energy level varies all the time, sometimes for very specific reasons, and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. The "free-flow of energy" I was referring to has nothing to do with physical energy; it refers to the collapse of the psychological boundary between "inside" and "outside" after the illusion of selfhood has been seen through. It's what allows a human to feel at-one with "what is," and it's what the word "flow" points to. But literally everything we deal with in life requires energy. Reading, what you are doing right now requires energy and expends energy. Go to work, energy required. Drive to work, fuel needed. Get out of the vehicle, energy required to walk. Pouring concrete, fuel needed to get it to the job, muscles need energy to finish the concrete. Even digesting food requires energy. Sensing requires energy. Can you name one thing in life that does not require the expenditure of energy? All movement in the universe involves an exchange of energy. There is nothing in the universe that has nothing to do with energy. Even seeing through the illusion of selfhood, requires energy. Everything in the universe is connected BY energy. Manifestation requires energy. Manifesting consciousness requires energy, no energy, no consciousness manifested. (We call that going to sleep).
|
|
|
Post by justlikeyou on Jan 17, 2019 16:43:42 GMT -5
Physical energy level varies all the time, sometimes for very specific reasons, and sometimes for no discernible reason at all. The "free-flow of energy" I was referring to has nothing to do with physical energy; it refers to the collapse of the psychological boundary between "inside" and "outside" after the illusion of selfhood has been seen through. It's what allows a human to feel at-one with "what is," and it's what the word "flow" points to. But literally everything we deal with in life requires energy. Reading, what you are doing right now requires energy and expends energy. Go to work, energy required. Drive to work, fuel needed. Get out of the vehicle, energy required to walk. Pouring concrete, fuel needed to get it to the job, muscles need energy to finish the concrete. Even digesting food requires energy. Sensing requires energy. Can you name one thing in life that does not require the expenditure of energy? All movement in the universe involves an exchange of energy. There is nothing in the universe that has nothing to do with energy. Even seeing through the illusion of selfhood, requires energy. Everything in the universe is connected BY energy. Manifestation requires energy. Manifesting consciousness requires energy, no energy, no consciousness manifested. (We call that going to sleep). What exactly is energy?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 16:51:15 GMT -5
Not sure what this means. Can you say it differently or give an example of something ZD said demonstrating your point? I will give an example from my life. I earned my first dollar forking cow manure on my uncle Bruce's farm. When I was about 12 I helped him get up baled hay, it was just the two of us. He was a massive man, had huge hands. We were almost through, had the last load on the trailer and needed to put it in the barn loft. My job was to get a bale to him, then he picked it up like a marshmallow and threw it up through the loft door. I got incredibly tired, told him so. But he kept saying, just give me one more. So I kept getting him one more. Every time I knew that was the last bale I could get to him, but he kept saying, just give me one more. Then suddenly I was filled with energy, I wasn't tired at all. I finished easily and continued to be filled with energy. The next day I was back to normal but could never forget what had happened. When I was 24 I read In Search of the Miraculous. In it I read where there are accumulators in the human body, two small accumulators for each center (thinking, feeling, moving and instinctive), and these are connected to a large accumulator. When I read that I knew exactly what had happened working for uncle Bruce, I had exhausted an accumulator and then connected to another accumulator. And within six months of reading that book I experienced accumulating finer energies (not directly related to reading the book). ZD says there is a free flow of energy in the universe, no boundaries. I know from direct experience that this is not precisely correct. One can save energy, transform energy and accumulate energy. For me this is not debatable. I don't care to argue this with ZD, but I'm free to express my opinion. "Energy flows where attention goes". What? You mean convinced that your Uncle Bruce's love for his work wasn't real?
|
|