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Post by justlikeyou on Jan 23, 2019 10:16:59 GMT -5
I have experienced, and continue to experience, others who are similar to the character in the video, BUT usually on a much more subtle level, and it's not limited to those with an advaitic mindset. Dogma comes in all shapes, sizes and colors, as I see it, and attachment to/functioning out of dogmatic mental positions* is a common, if subtle, ailment of the greater part of humanity. *opinionated, peremptory, assertive, imperative, insistent, emphatic, adamant, doctrinaire, authoritarian, authoritative, domineering, imperious, high-handed, pontifical, arrogant, overbearing, dictatorial, uncompromising, unyielding, unbending, inflexible, rigid, entrenched, unquestionable, unchallengeable;
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Mushin
Jan 25, 2019 9:40:08 GMT -5
Post by maxdprophet on Jan 25, 2019 9:40:08 GMT -5
I have no interest in debating the issue, but I'm genuinely curious; how many people have you personally met who talked or acted like that? That's the thing. I can't think of a single person I've met like that. On the contrary, I've been pleasantly surprised at how down to earth folks at retreats are (when talking allowed), happily helping out in the kitchen, etc. A neo-advaita ass like that would quickly be shown the door, I'd think.
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Mushin
Jan 25, 2019 13:12:34 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Jan 25, 2019 13:12:34 GMT -5
I also think it's quite prevalent. But its pointless to debate that. I have no interest in debating the issue, but I'm genuinely curious; how many people have you personally met who talked or acted like that?[/quote] That's the thing. I can't think of a single person I've met like that. On the contrary, I've been pleasantly surprised at how down to earth folks at retreats are (when talking allowed), happily helping out in the kitchen, etc. A neo-advaita ass like that would quickly be shown the door, I'd think.[/quote] Agreed.
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Mushin
Jan 28, 2019 9:15:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 9:15:32 GMT -5
I also think it's quite prevalent. But its pointless to debate that. I have no interest in debating the issue, but I'm genuinely curious; how many people have you personally met who talked or acted like that? That's the thing. I can't think of a single person I've met like that. On the contrary, I've been pleasantly surprised at how down to earth folks at retreats are (when talking allowed), happily helping out in the kitchen, etc. A neo-advaita ass like that would quickly be shown the door, I'd think. Agreed. I defer to you gentlemen. Perhaps it is me. Wouldn't be the first time.
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Post by Reefs on Jan 28, 2019 10:50:41 GMT -5
I defer to you gentlemen. Perhaps it is me. Wouldn't be the first time. You'll meet them typically (or exclusively?) on spiritual forums like this one, not actually in real life situations because it is just a mental position which cannot be sustained in real life. In real life you wouldn't survive for long if you'd rely purely on an intellectual position. Life will just have its way with you. That's what all these theoreticians and mental kungfu masters will discover sooner or later. Such a mental position can only be sustained in a purely theoretical/intellectual (and anonymous) setting like philosophical or spiritual discussion forums. And even that takes a lot of effort. Very often people simply forget their mental position for a moment, even in these discussions, and just act and speak naturally and suddenly they talk themselves into a pretzel. You just can't live a concept. That's the eternal TRUTH, hehe.
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Mushin
Feb 3, 2019 9:10:46 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2019 9:10:46 GMT -5
I defer to you gentlemen. Perhaps it is me. Wouldn't be the first time. You'll meet them typically (or exclusively?) on spiritual forums like this one, not actually in real life situations because it is just a mental position which cannot be sustained in real life. In real life you wouldn't survive for long if you'd rely purely on an intellectual position. Life will just have its way with you. That's what all these theoreticians and mental kungfu masters will discover sooner or later. Such a mental position can only be sustained in a purely theoretical/intellectual (and anonymous) setting like philosophical or spiritual discussion forums. And even that takes a lot of effort. Very often people simply forget their mental position for a moment, even in these discussions, and just act and speak naturally and suddenly they talk themselves into a pretzel. You just can't live a concept. That's the eternal TRUTH, hehe. I don't wish to offend, but perhaps you are correct. In person, it's nothing that a swift kick in the ass wouldn't cure. BTW, at the Zen Temple in Long Beach, the keisaku (stick of awakening) was only used when you fell asleep while meditating. Since I wasn't a "disciple," I had to request it. It was always dissapointing when the priest was hesitant.
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Mushin
Feb 14, 2019 11:51:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2019 11:51:32 GMT -5
Not that there's anything wrong, but one of the consequences of calling the world illusory is that some interpret it as meaninng that life and living is somehow less significant than things like this concept. This is why some sages sppeak of the world as a separare "modality" of awareness. This is not to say that there are not those who benefit from hearing that the world is illusory, just that to some audiences it is counter productive. This is one of the drawbacks in teachers being exposed to mass audiences. Though there are many benefits.
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Mushin
Feb 14, 2019 19:38:21 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Feb 14, 2019 19:38:21 GMT -5
Not that there's anything wrong, but one of the consequences of calling the world illusory is that some interpret it as meaninng that life and living is somehow less significant than things like this concept. This is why some sages sppeak of the world as a separare "modality" of awareness. This is not to say that there are not those who benefit from hearing that the world is illusory, just that to some audiences it is counter productive. This is one of the drawbacks in teachers being exposed to mass audiences. Though there are many benefits. That because people think a one lined quip from a spiritual teacher is 'true'. People tend not to like nuances of meaning.
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Mushin
Feb 14, 2019 21:32:37 GMT -5
Post by etolle on Feb 14, 2019 21:32:37 GMT -5
I've never run into a single one either. The only person who I've seen use this approach is Tony Parsons on a video where he was using that approach to shock his audience in a attempt to stop their minds (as a way of triggering a realization). I remember some woman in the audience starting to talk about buying some red shoes, and Parsons interrupts her very forcefully and says, "No one has ever bought a pair of red shoes!" Haha! If the book, "Everyday Enlightenment" is accurate, Parsons has been quite successful using this approach. All teachers who point to THIS, have their own unique way of trying of stop peoples' minds and shock them out of the consensus paradigm. In one satsang Gangaji said, "Who you think you are can never be free, whole, sacred, or in love. Who you think you are is a thought or a story, only. Who you really are, however, is already free, whole, sacred, and in love." That's just a different way of pointing to the same thing.
Mooji has lots of creative ways of doing this, but it often takes quite a while for the message to sink below the level of the intellect. I remember one Mooji video in which he expresses a lot of frustration at the fact that so many people attend his satsangs yet so few seem to wake up and get clear. He was probably just having a bad day. Adyashanti, Gangaji, and Tolle have dozens, if not hundreds, of students who have awakened, and I'd be surprised if Mooji hasn't also precipitated the awakening of hundreds, too. Maybe even thousands.
The Soto Zen approach, by contrast, is to tell students to sit down, shut up, and become silent via zazen. This, too, works for some people. I can imagine some psychologist interested in ND doing a study at some point in the future in an effort to determine which approach has the highest percentage of success. The character in the video is unfamiliar? Or awake? I was raised by and with many people like the guy here but they call themselves Baptist..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 11:23:12 GMT -5
Pettifroggery is self realization by repetition. If you repeat the same cool phrases like "I am all that is" or "I am abiding presence" then you are self realized. Had to take my shot at the evil ones.
Back to the business at hand. Saw a cool vid by adyashanti. He describes his realization as seeing that he was not his thoughts. That happened to me thirty years ago. It had a profound effect on my life. I was functional after and no longer classified as crazy, although I suspect that assessment is inaccurate. I think Laughy agrees. I digress. My point is that even though I was now a functioning member of society, I was still on a roller coaster ride. It was a minor realization, not the Big One. I'm only guessing here. I was only somewhat free.This is why I ascribe to the notion that there can be many realizations along the way.
In reading some Godman recently where he quotes Ramana discussing samadhi, I gained a perspective on where I'm at. In Ramana's view samadhi is when mind rests while awake. Savikalpa samadhi is resting the mind with effort, putting words in his mouth here, but I would classify self enquiry as a form of savikalpa samadhi. And perhaps zazen.
Nirvikalpa samadhi is when mind rests without effort. This happens to me almost every time I meditate at some point. In these moments I am only the breath.
Kevala nirvikalpa samadhi is mushin. This happens often. The mind rests in the waking state for a prolonged period. Finally sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi is hopefully where I'm headed, the promised land of the bible. I call this whole process "awakening" and why I say it's gradual.
It is impossible for me to believe that I am JUST THIS body/mind. Some folks call this a realization. I know this. This is why self-enquiry for me is like being in a circular room looking for the corner.
Here's my question, for folks way wiser than me. Is it that I haven't really had that final aha, is that when sahaja begins?
Who is this that is experiencing this process? No one. So skip this ploy.
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Mushin
Mar 23, 2019 11:57:39 GMT -5
Post by krsnaraja on Mar 23, 2019 11:57:39 GMT -5
Pettifroggery is self realization by repetition. If you repeat the same cool phrases like "I am all that is" or "I am abiding presence" then you are self realized. Had to take my shot at the evil ones. Back to the business at hand. Saw a cool vid by adyashanti. He describes his realization as seeing that he was not his thoughts. That happened to me thirty years ago. It had a profound effect on my life. I was functional after and no longer classified as crazy, although I suspect that assessment is inaccurate. I think Laughy agrees. I digress. My point is that even though I was now a functioning member of society, I was still on a roller coaster ride. It was a minor realization, not the Big One. I'm only guessing here. I was only somewhat free.This is why I ascribe to the notion that there can be many realizations along the way. In reading some Godman recently where he quotes Ramana discussing samadhi, I gained a perspective on where I'm at. In Ramana's view samadhi is when mind rests while awake. Savigalpa samadhi is resting the mind with effort, putting words in his mouth here, but I would classify self enquiry as a form of savigalpa samadhi. And perhaps zazen. Nirvigalpa samadhi is when mind rests without effort. This happens to me almost every time I meditate at some point. In these moments I am only the breath. Kevala nirvigalpa samadhi is mushin. This happens often. The mind rests in the waking state for a prolonged period. Finally sahaji nirvikalpa samadhi is hopefully where I'm headed, the promised land of the bible. I call this whole process "awakening" and why I say it's gradual. It is impossible for me to believe that I am JUST THIS body/mind. Some folks call this a realization. I know this. This is why self-enquiry for me is like being in a circular room looking for the corner. Here's my question, for folks way wiser than me. Is it that I haven't really had that final aha, is that when sahaji begins? Who is this that is experiencing this process? No one. So skip this ploy. Samadhi is simply falling asleep while in meditation. During that state awakens from his dream. Unafraid the possibility he won't wake up from this dream makes use of what he can do from that dream. In that dream, he enjoys flying from one place to another, or ride a boat, or swim. He does not get tired from doing all sorts of things. When he's hungry, he sees himself eating food prepared and laid on the table. He gets to meet his relatives who have died long ago. In that state, his body lies motionless impervious from heat and cold outside. His body does not thirst nor gets hungry. It can stay there for hours, days, weeks without signs of deterioration.
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Mushin
Mar 23, 2019 13:26:08 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 13:26:08 GMT -5
Pettifroggery is self realization by repetition. If you repeat the same cool phrases like "I am all that is" or "I am abiding presence" then you are self realized. Had to take my shot at the evil ones. Back to the business at hand. Saw a cool vid by adyashanti. He describes his realization as seeing that he was not his thoughts. That happened to me thirty years ago. It had a profound effect on my life. I was functional after and no longer classified as crazy, although I suspect that assessment is inaccurate. I think Laughy agrees. I digress. My point is that even though I was now a functioning member of society, I was still on a roller coaster ride. It was a minor realization, not the Big One. I'm only guessing here. I was only somewhat free.This is why I ascribe to the notion that there can be many realizations along the way. In reading some Godman recently where he quotes Ramana discussing samadhi, I gained a perspective on where I'm at. In Ramana's view samadhi is when mind rests while awake. Savigalpa samadhi is resting the mind with effort, putting words in his mouth here, but I would classify self enquiry as a form of savigalpa samadhi. And perhaps zazen. Nirvigalpa samadhi is when mind rests without effort. This happens to me almost every time I meditate at some point. In these moments I am only the breath. Kevala nirvigalpa samadhi is mushin. This happens often. The mind rests in the waking state for a prolonged period. Finally sahaji nirvikalpa samadhi is hopefully where I'm headed, the promised land of the bible. I call this whole process "awakening" and why I say it's gradual. It is impossible for me to believe that I am JUST THIS body/mind. Some folks call this a realization. I know this. This is why self-enquiry for me is like being in a circular room looking for the corner. Here's my question, for folks way wiser than me. Is it that I haven't really had that final aha, is that when sahaji begins? Who is this that is experiencing this process? No one. So skip this ploy. Samadhi is simply falling asleep while in meditation. During that state awakens from his dream. Unafraid the possibility he won't wake up from this dream makes use of what he can do from that dream. In that dream, he enjoys flying from one place to another, or ride a boat, or swim. He does not get tired from doing all sorts of things. When he's hungry, he sees himself eating food prepared and laid on the table. He gets to meet his relatives who have died long ago. In that state, his body lies motionless impervious from heat and cold outside. His body does not thirst nor gets hungry. It can stay there for hours, days, weeks without signs of deterioration. Pardon my mispellings. It should be nirvikalpa and savikalpa. But the definition of samadhi is not mine but borrowed from a dialog between Ramana and a student from one of Godman's book. I don't want to quibble over this.
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Mushin
Mar 23, 2019 17:58:39 GMT -5
Post by krsnaraja on Mar 23, 2019 17:58:39 GMT -5
Samadhi is simply falling asleep while in meditation. During that state awakens from his dream. Unafraid the possibility he won't wake up from this dream makes use of what he can do from that dream. In that dream, he enjoys flying from one place to another, or ride a boat, or swim. He does not get tired from doing all sorts of things. When he's hungry, he sees himself eating food prepared and laid on the table. He gets to meet his relatives who have died long ago. In that state, his body lies motionless impervious from heat and cold outside. His body does not thirst nor gets hungry. It can stay there for hours, days, weeks without signs of deterioration. Pardon my mispellings. It should be nirvikalpa and savikalpa. But the definition of samadhi is not mine but borrowed from a dialog between Ramana and a student from one of Godman's book. I don't want to quibble over this. When you suddenly become aware your inside a dream, don't panic. Many who wake up inside their dreams suffer sleep apnea. Keep calm. As long as you're still attached to your wife children friends work, community and country you will wake up sooner or later to the present world. But if you decide to let go with that you transcend this body. In that dream enjoy yourself for in the dream world everything is possible. Physical death say a heart attack manifests when you finally let go of this body and everything attached to it. And you still inside that dream.
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Mushin
May 18, 2019 10:30:20 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 10:30:20 GMT -5
It's as if you were boxing an assortment of items and without thinking you knew that each item will fit perfectly. This is how life flows in mushin. Thinking takes effort.
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Mushin
May 18, 2019 13:19:36 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on May 18, 2019 13:19:36 GMT -5
It's as if you were boxing an assortment of items and without thinking you knew that each item will fit perfectly. This is how life flows in mushin. Thinking takes effort. Exactly.
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