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Post by etolle on Jan 4, 2019 4:10:33 GMT -5
the question I am asking is this. can you be free and have "beliefs"?....not about re writing the dictionary. THIS IS YES OR NO..... Is it true that you are reading this sentence? tns doesn't equate truth with thoughts..whatever it is is just whatever it is.
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Post by laughter on Jan 4, 2019 4:39:31 GMT -5
Is it true that you are reading this sentence? tns doesn't equate truth with thoughts..whatever it is is just whatever it is. ... soooo .. that's a "no"??
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Post by etolle on Jan 4, 2019 4:52:48 GMT -5
tns doesn't equate truth with thoughts..whatever it is is just whatever it is. ... soooo .. that's a "no"?? when functioning from tns all that head stuff is not there. ..also in tns there is nothin to prove or disprove...right,wrong,good,bad is all just bs to me..hope this helps you
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Post by laughter on Jan 4, 2019 6:28:37 GMT -5
... soooo .. that's a "no"?? when functioning from tns all that head stuff is not there. ..also in tns there is nothin to prove or disprove...right,wrong,good,bad is all just bs to me..hope this helps you What "head stuff" or "proof", specifically, are you referring to, and how is it relevant to these two posts?
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Post by etolle on Jan 4, 2019 6:53:32 GMT -5
when functioning from tns all that head stuff is not there. ..also in tns there is nothin to prove or disprove...right,wrong,good,bad is all just bs to me..hope this helps you What "head stuff" or "proof", specifically, are you referring to, and how is it relevant to these two posts? I tried to help you but cant..good luck.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 12:51:54 GMT -5
Well, to say 'I have faith that there will be a stretch of bitter cold weather before the winter is over' sounds a little strange. Apparently, because faith is a category of belief that connotes something desirable that we trust will happen. So I guess a little different. What sort of belief were you thinking of? do you agree that "beliefs' are n the mind? I already agreed that beliefs are a natural functioning of the mind. Even when one is functioning from what ZD calls body knowledge, this is still knowledge/beliefs about how the world of form functions, it's just not distorted by the mostly irrelevant and false conclusions and judgments of thinking. Only this conscious mental processing will lead to ideas about it's name, health, desirability, and whether it can provide firewood to last the winter (and whether it is conscious).
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 13:10:58 GMT -5
the question I am asking is this. can you be free and have "beliefs"?....not about re writing the dictionary. THIS IS YES OR NO..... To the one who believes tomorrow's sunrise is a belief, the answer is yes. To the one who believes it is a matter of faith, and beliefs involve the idea of separation in some form, the answer is no. The rest will be trying to understand what you mean by 'belief'. My belief is that a discussion forum may not be the best place to bring a 'yes/no' question.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 13:12:25 GMT -5
the question I am asking is this. can you be free and have "beliefs"?....not about re writing the dictionary. THIS IS YES OR NO..... Is it true that you are reading this sentence? No, I read it a few seconds ago. Now I'm answering it.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 13:15:41 GMT -5
Is it true that you are reading this sentence? tns doesn't equate truth with thoughts..whatever it is is just whatever it is. My dictionary says tns means transparent network substrate.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 14:26:03 GMT -5
... soooo .. that's a "no"?? when functioning from tns all that head stuff is not there. ..also in tns there is nothin to prove or disprove... right,wrong,good,bad is all just bs to me..hope this helps you Those are judgments, (as is the idea that it is all bs). So, is that what you mean by beliefs?
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Post by etolle on Jan 4, 2019 15:08:25 GMT -5
do you agree that "beliefs' are n the mind? I already agreed that beliefs are a natural functioning of the mind. Even when one is functioning from what ZD calls body knowledge, this is still knowledge/beliefs about how the world of form functions, it's just not distorted by the mostly irrelevant and false conclusions and judgments of thinking. Only this conscious mental processing will lead to ideas about it's name, health, desirability, and whether it can provide firewood to last the winter (and whether it is conscious). enigma you try so hard and i'm sure you mean well but..lol...this is a simple question..DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT VOICE IN YER HEAD and just answer the question please...
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 4, 2019 15:47:37 GMT -5
Beliefs are just a kind of ~shortcut ~...shorthand. When you have found something to be true, or just *work*, you can 'file it away' as answered and not have to deal with/consider the question again (unless a new event/new data puts the *belief* in question). Beliefs streamline operating in-the-world. But most people have disfunctional beliefs, and in the long run they cause more problems than they solve. For this reason most people associate mostly with people who have similar beliefs. This cuts down on *reality challenges*.
If you had to re-make-sense of the world every morning, little would get done. Beliefs arise-out-of/operate-from unconscious (brain) processing. Most people cannot *-see-* their beliefs, most people **are** their beliefs.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 4, 2019 16:45:53 GMT -5
tns doesn't equate truth with thoughts..whatever it is is just whatever it is. My dictionary says tns means transparent network substrate. He's using tns as TNS--the natural state.
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Post by zendancer on Jan 4, 2019 17:10:52 GMT -5
It's easy, once removed from the world-view of Christianity or another religion, to see the beliefs of the masses as "delusional" - and it's not entirely wrong. Yet, I'd say be careful with this line of thinking, as the mind can grab at it as a chance to sprout of whole new line of beliefs; namely, that "I know the truth is beyond words" and "the truth is seen clearly to me but these people haven't a clue" etc. Not saying you are specifically doing this, but I find a lot of people who claim to have no beliefs end up having quite a few unquestioned ones. That being said, I can have a hundred beliefs and still be free. If I have seen that what I am is beyond language as THIS very presence/awareness, then why would beliefs in the mind, which is a mere speck of being, be limiting? It is a natural functioning of the mind. if I have seen that what I am is beyond language( I being whatever it is that is aware of what i'm not.) and I have,wouldnt "Beliefs ' (and my definition of a belief is a thought,idea,etc manufactured by the mind) be counter productive?..why would I need to believe something that I know by experience? its not like I try not to have any beliefs but in tns there are none....what I am trying to do is understand my Christian type friends. Haha! There's no need to understand your Christian friends any more than you already do. What happened to you is exactly what happened to Byron Katie, but in her case, she had to spend a lot of time alone in the desert questioning the truth of her beliefs one at a time before she got free from them. It sounds like this happened to you all at once, which is very fortunate. Gangaji has often talked about the secondary issue you've raised, and most ND teachers have encountered it. After getting free, some past friends will feel uncomfortable around you because you no longer subscribe to the consensus paradigm. They'll regard you as a threat. Other people will be attracted to you. Some hard-core fundamentalists will think you're going to hell, and they'll want to proslytize you incessantly--especially if they're related to you. I've had to block people from my email account and write off people who couldn't stop babbling about their beliefs or trying to get me to subscribe to their beliefs. It goes with the territory. My advice? Don't sweat the small stuff. Simply accept that your relationships will change as a result of what you've realized, and let the chips fall where they will. Some people carry a lot of psychological baggage because of their beliefs ABOUT what's happened to them, ABOUT who they think they are, and ABOUT who they think they're supposed to be. In fact, if you're observant, you can see the physical effect that this kind of baggage has upon people. When I meet people who cannot smile or laugh, or who look like they're carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders, the reason can be found in their thoughts and beliefs.
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Post by enigma on Jan 4, 2019 20:19:07 GMT -5
I already agreed that beliefs are a natural functioning of the mind. Even when one is functioning from what ZD calls body knowledge, this is still knowledge/beliefs about how the world of form functions, it's just not distorted by the mostly irrelevant and false conclusions and judgments of thinking. Only this conscious mental processing will lead to ideas about it's name, health, desirability, and whether it can provide firewood to last the winter (and whether it is conscious). enigma you try so hard and i'm sure you mean well but..lol...this is a simple question..DO NOT LISTEN TO THAT VOICE IN YER HEAD and just answer the question please... The underlined IS the answer to your question. You seem agitated.
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