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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 15:29:32 GMT -5
from here on out,whenever you see a question mark ?? THAT WILL BE A QUESTION.LOL.... So which of the 5 questions do you want answered?
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Post by etolle on Dec 26, 2018 18:38:21 GMT -5
the question has been answered..thaks jaspa
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Post by Reefs on Dec 27, 2018 0:44:18 GMT -5
A-H say a belief is just a thought you keep thinking. Or story you keep telling yourself. Being fully present, as in flow, there’s no story. I'm currently reading Derren Brown's book Happy. And he has some good points about stories/beliefs (he uses the term 'templates' in the mind- an interesting choice of words!). I'll start a separate thread about this some time later. Maybe also another one on flow. Merry Christmas! Some of his documentaries have been brilliant, I used to talk about them a bit on here. I skimmed his book in the library while waiting for my kids to pick out books. it looked pretty alright to me. A lot of food for thought in that book. I just read his chapter about the dangers of positive thinking and LOA. He seems to be a bit of a stoic bent. Wouldn't have guessed that. His criticism is based on The Secret and in that sense it is somewhat understandable (he compares Byrnes to faith healers). But we who know A-H all know that The Secret never actually revealed the 'secret' about LOA, right? So in a sense it is a bogus critique of LOA on the one hand, but on the other hand he has some valid points that just can't be denied. And interestingly, it finally made me realize Laughter's point against the LOA stuff/community and where the source of that concern is rooted. Fascinating.
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Post by etolle on Dec 27, 2018 1:39:01 GMT -5
Some of his documentaries have been brilliant, I used to talk about them a bit on here. I skimmed his book in the library while waiting for my kids to pick out books. it looked pretty alright to me. A lot of food for thought in that book. I just read his chapter about the dangers of positive thinking and LOA. He seems to be a bit of a stoic bent. Wouldn't have guessed that. His criticism is based on The Secret and in that sense it is somewhat understandable (he compares Byrnes to faith healers). But we who know A-H all know that The Secret never actually revealed the 'secret' about LOA, right? So in a sense it is a bogus critique of LOA on the one hand, but on the other hand he has some valid points that just can't be denied. And interestingly, it finally made me realize Laughter's point against the LOA stuff/community and where the source of that concern is rooted. Fascinating. when I was very young I read a book called THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING by norman Vincent peale,was very popular 50 yrs ago. the book actually helped me in my line of work which was contracting/painting,etc because I always had several fellows workin for me.. buut,i can see now that most of the time I was in total denial of reality. was functioning 100% from that false sense of self and while the business did very well I was miserable and turned into an alcoholic..death,divorce,life,etc,nothing ever got fully processed because I would pretend it hadn't happened and or that I didn't care. ..if I had known who I was that book would have seemed almost comical.....it would be interesting to read a copy of that today...
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Post by Reefs on Dec 27, 2018 2:56:01 GMT -5
A lot of food for thought in that book. I just read his chapter about the dangers of positive thinking and LOA. He seems to be a bit of a stoic bent. Wouldn't have guessed that. His criticism is based on The Secret and in that sense it is somewhat understandable (he compares Byrnes to faith healers). But we who know A-H all know that The Secret never actually revealed the 'secret' about LOA, right? So in a sense it is a bogus critique of LOA on the one hand, but on the other hand he has some valid points that just can't be denied. And interestingly, it finally made me realize Laughter's point against the LOA stuff/community and where the source of that concern is rooted. Fascinating. when I was very young I read a book called THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING by norman Vincent peale,was very popular 50 yrs ago. the book actually helped me in my line of work which was contracting/painting,etc because I always had several fellows workin for me.. buut,i can see now that most of the time I was in total denial of reality. was functioning 100% from that false sense of self and while the business did very well I was miserable and turned into an alcoholic..death,divorce,life,etc,nothing ever got fully processed because I would pretend it hadn't happened and or that I didn't care. ..if I had known who I was that book would have seemed almost comical.....it would be interesting to read a copy of that today... Yes, that's Derren's point basically - self-deception. And that inevitably has to happen if you approach it purely from an intellectual perspective (which, unfortunately is also Derren's perspective and approach to happiness as far as I can tell). At some point reality is catching up with you. But that's just the popular version of LOA and positive thinking (aka fake it until you make it). So from the perspective of separation (or the SVP) that's just how people are going to understand it. The A-H version of LOA goes much deeper though. It starts from the basic premise of oneness, a perspective actually similar to what a CC reveals. And here it is all about being and self-honesty about your actual state of being and how to gauge your actual state of being, not thinking and self-deception. That's why one works and the other doesn't. It's basically opposite approaches.
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Post by andrew on Dec 27, 2018 6:04:53 GMT -5
Some of his documentaries have been brilliant, I used to talk about them a bit on here. I skimmed his book in the library while waiting for my kids to pick out books. it looked pretty alright to me. A lot of food for thought in that book. I just read his chapter about the dangers of positive thinking and LOA. He seems to be a bit of a stoic bent. Wouldn't have guessed that. His criticism is based on The Secret and in that sense it is somewhat understandable (he compares Byrnes to faith healers). But we who know A-H all know that The Secret never actually revealed the 'secret' about LOA, right? So in a sense it is a bogus critique of LOA on the one hand, but on the other hand he has some valid points that just can't be denied. And interestingly, it finally made me realize Laughter's point against the LOA stuff/community and where the source of that concern is rooted. Fascinating. Yeah, I'm aware Derren is a fan of stoicism, and over the years he has been on a mission to discredit faith healing and psychics etc. He does make good points. If 'The Secret' lies at one extreme end of the scale, I would put AH next to them (bit more moderate), then Joe Dispenza, then Derren Brown. I don't see Derren as being at the opposite end of the scale (though maybe he would put himself there). The thing is that is his quest to discredit 'spiritual' stuff, all he has done is confirmed that the power of alignment is very strong. For example, his documentary on the power of the placebo was great, and is very much in accordance with the 'spiritual' stuff. He's also extremely intuitive, and in his own way, is constantly doing 'psychic readings' (though he wouldn't call them that). He's an interesting guy.
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Post by enigma on Dec 29, 2018 11:51:01 GMT -5
It's easy, once removed from the world-view of Christianity or another religion, to see the beliefs of the masses as "delusional" - and it's not entirely wrong. Yet, I'd say be careful with this line of thinking, as the mind can grab at it as a chance to sprout of whole new line of beliefs; namely, that "I know the truth is beyond words" and "the truth is seen clearly to me but these people haven't a clue" etc. Not saying you are specifically doing this, but I find a lot of people who claim to have no beliefs end up having quite a few unquestioned ones. That being said, I can have a hundred beliefs and still be free. If I have seen that what I am is beyond language as THIS very presence/awareness, then why would beliefs in the mind, which is a mere speck of being, be limiting? It is a natural functioning of the mind. Yes indeed. I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and if I'm wrong, I believe there will be no-one around to tell me so.
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Post by etolle on Dec 29, 2018 12:43:51 GMT -5
It's easy, once removed from the world-view of Christianity or another religion, to see the beliefs of the masses as "delusional" - and it's not entirely wrong. Yet, I'd say be careful with this line of thinking, as the mind can grab at it as a chance to sprout of whole new line of beliefs; namely, that "I know the truth is beyond words" and "the truth is seen clearly to me but these people haven't a clue" etc. Not saying you are specifically doing this, but I find a lot of people who claim to have no beliefs end up having quite a few unquestioned ones. That being said, I can have a hundred beliefs and still be free. If I have seen that what I am is beyond language as THIS very presence/awareness, then why would beliefs in the mind, which is a mere speck of being, be limiting? It is a natural functioning of the mind. if I have seen that what I am is beyond language( I being whatever it is that is aware of what i'm not.) and I have,wouldnt "Beliefs ' (and my definition of a belief is a thought,idea,etc manufactured by the mind) be counter productive?..why would I need to believe something that I know by experience? its not like I try not to have any beliefs but in tns there are none....what I am trying to do is understand my Christian type friends.
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Post by etolle on Dec 29, 2018 12:47:15 GMT -5
It's easy, once removed from the world-view of Christianity or another religion, to see the beliefs of the masses as "delusional" - and it's not entirely wrong. Yet, I'd say be careful with this line of thinking, as the mind can grab at it as a chance to sprout of whole new line of beliefs; namely, that "I know the truth is beyond words" and "the truth is seen clearly to me but these people haven't a clue" etc. Not saying you are specifically doing this, but I find a lot of people who claim to have no beliefs end up having quite a few unquestioned ones. That being said, I can have a hundred beliefs and still be free. If I have seen that what I am is beyond language as THIS very presence/awareness, then why would beliefs in the mind, which is a mere speck of being, be limiting? It is a natural functioning of the mind. Yes indeed. I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and if I'm wrong, I believe there will be no-one around to tell me so. would that not be faith rather than belief?....
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Post by Reefs on Jan 3, 2019 7:24:50 GMT -5
A lot of food for thought in that book. I just read his chapter about the dangers of positive thinking and LOA. He seems to be a bit of a stoic bent. Wouldn't have guessed that. His criticism is based on The Secret and in that sense it is somewhat understandable (he compares Byrnes to faith healers). But we who know A-H all know that The Secret never actually revealed the 'secret' about LOA, right? So in a sense it is a bogus critique of LOA on the one hand, but on the other hand he has some valid points that just can't be denied. And interestingly, it finally made me realize Laughter's point against the LOA stuff/community and where the source of that concern is rooted. Fascinating. Yeah, I'm aware Derren is a fan of stoicism, and over the years he has been on a mission to discredit faith healing and psychics etc. He does make good points. If 'The Secret' lies at one extreme end of the scale, I would put AH next to them (bit more moderate), then Joe Dispenza, then Derren Brown. I don't see Derren as being at the opposite end of the scale (though maybe he would put himself there). The thing is that is his quest to discredit 'spiritual' stuff, all he has done is confirmed that the power of alignment is very strong. For example, his documentary on the power of the placebo was great, and is very much in accordance with the 'spiritual' stuff. He's also extremely intuitive, and in his own way, is constantly doing 'psychic readings' (though he wouldn't call them that). He's an interesting guy. It seems his main goal is not disproving LOA (which can't be done) but discrediting the belief in a personal God which shows up in popular LOA teachings like The Secret dressed up as 'the universe'. So instead of praying to a benevolent personal God and asking Him for a favor that then gets granted (see faith healers), people instead send out their requests in form of thought waves to a benevolent universe which then delivers the goods. Which essentially is just a more depersonalized version of the personal God arrangement. Same same but different.
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Post by enigma on Jan 3, 2019 18:56:47 GMT -5
Yes indeed. I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and if I'm wrong, I believe there will be no-one around to tell me so. would that not be faith rather than belief?.... Well, to say 'I have faith that there will be a stretch of bitter cold weather before the winter is over' sounds a little strange. Apparently, because faith is a category of belief that connotes something desirable that we trust will happen. So I guess a little different. What sort of belief were you thinking of?
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Post by etolle on Jan 3, 2019 19:45:36 GMT -5
would that not be faith rather than belief?.... Well, to say 'I have faith that there will be a stretch of bitter cold weather before the winter is over' sounds a little strange. Apparently, because faith is a category of belief that connotes something desirable that we trust will happen. So I guess a little different. What sort of belief were you thinking of? do you agree that "beliefs' are n the mind?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 3, 2019 21:00:12 GMT -5
Yes indeed. I believe the sun is going to rise tomorrow, and if I'm wrong, I believe there will be no-one around to tell me so. would that not be faith rather than belief?.... No, faith has to do with the unseen.
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Post by etolle on Jan 3, 2019 23:07:15 GMT -5
the question I am asking is this. can you be free and have "beliefs"?....not about re writing the dictionary. THIS IS YES OR NO.....
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Post by laughter on Jan 4, 2019 3:07:35 GMT -5
the question I am asking is this. can you be free and have "beliefs"?....not about re writing the dictionary. THIS IS YES OR NO..... Is it true that you are reading this sentence?
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