|
Kensho
Oct 28, 2018 14:04:44 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Oct 28, 2018 14:04:44 GMT -5
Yes, but as ZD has pointed out, the common path is that after kensho, the person still thinks of it in terms of something that happened to them, some will even chase it. Kensho and flow are different in that flow will come and go, and the person's perspective, especially in terms of their existential informing of mind, can remain pretty much the same. In contrast, after kensho -- in terms of the way you're refining the term to include the realization aspect -- there's a definite before and after. Even still though, kensho and flow are similar, in this point that there's more likely than not some hands of identity poker left to play after kensho. This makes it clear why kensho, in and of itself, isn't the end of the road. So this dual realization model is illuminating, but in the final analysis still, in my opinion, rather limiting. Well, kensho CAN be the end of the road, but that's atypical. When it's not, two realizations are always better than one if each realization reveals a different aspect of what's going on. Nevertheless, it's true that no model will ever capture all of the different ways that people "wake up" and become free. Apparently some people get the whole shebang in one deep kensho (the Buddha?), but most people seem to have sequential realizations over a period of time, and each realization results in a bit more freedom from the mind and progressively deeper understanding. Hakuin comes to mind in this respect. What all of the different models are pointing to, in essence, is what's involved in awakening from the consensus paradigm, and the discovery that the cosmos is unified, infinite, and intellectually incomprehensible. Those who discover THAT discover that all of us are one-with THAT. The great thing about the Zen approach is that it starts and ends with the gravitation toward a quiescent mind. CC's start with a quiescent mind, but for me, and I guess for many others, dramatic rearrangement of the mental furniture all at once can eventually lead to some serious action in the form of existential questioning. The way out of that is, of course, what got you there in the first place: more stillness! more silence! Like Reefs, for me there was a gap in wanting to talk to anyone about it at first (except my wife). That lasted about six months. My state during that time was a blissful sort of "of course it's this way, wasn't it always?" and "so simple, can't believe I missed this all that time". I wouldn't really call that rearrangement either the "I am not this" nor the "I am this" realization, and while several of the existential questions you sometimes list seem familiar to me, many of them were notions that I was either conditioned into or answered long before I found Tolle, wasn't consciously seeking, and took for granted the value of mind and emotion as a source of truth.
|
|
|
Kensho
Nov 9, 2018 11:03:07 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Nov 9, 2018 11:03:07 GMT -5
Interesting posts from everyone on here.
Zen Dancer if a seeker in today's age wanted to pick up a few books on Zen to know the terms used by Zen Masters but also to attend a retreat with a living teacher today. Who and what do you recommend?
If I am going to Glastonbury to see Ian I sometimes pop in to The Speaking Tree or The Courtyard book store. Reduced esoteric books. On the second floor of The Speaking Tree there's a whole wall dedicated to Zen books and books on Buddhism. A few books on Ramana, Krishnamurti etc.
But as a seeker I wouldn't know where to begin at looking at a book or a retreat on Zen. I can easily point at certain western teachers l could easily recommend.
But what of Zen teachers, are there still monasteries in Japan or in the West with well known teachers.
Anyone can answer this too btw
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Nov 9, 2018 13:40:03 GMT -5
Hi Bluey: I'd recommend any of the following books:
1. Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Suzuki 2. Zen Training by Sekida 2. Three Pillars of Zen by Kapleau 4. Dropping Ashes on the Buddha by Mitchell 5. The Unborn (Life and Teachings of Zen Master Bankei) by Waddell
I do not know any Zen Masters or Zen communities in Europe that I can recommend, but I'm sure that there must be many such communities that hold regular silent retreats. Finding a clear Zen Master with a broad vision would be a matter of luck. I left the Zen tradition more than twenty years ago because I found it a bit too rigid and narrowly-focused for my taste. If I were going to recommend a good ND teacher in Europe, I'd probably recommend Mooji in Portugal.
We have many excellent ND teachers in the USA, but only a few of them offer the kind of intensive silent retreats that Zen people typically conduct. In fact, my major complaint about non-Zen ND retreats in the USA is that they don't foster the kind of sustained silence that is common in the Zen tradition. A typical Zen 3-day silent weekend retreat would probably involve 15 or 20 hours of meditation and one or two short dharma talks. Non-Zen 3-day ND retreats might involve 4 or 5 hours of silence in thirty-minute segments with lots of talks and discussions--not nearly enough silence to trigger big realizations or even NS.
|
|
|
Kensho
Nov 10, 2018 16:14:38 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Nov 10, 2018 16:14:38 GMT -5
Gangaji does a prisoner program. As does and I came across Thich Nhat Hahn (spelling) at the Quaker place in Woodbrooke in Birmingham. Explorer may know better on Woodbrooke and the library and the teachers on their shelf.
I don't know if you've seen the documentary The Dharma Brothers. The hours of meditation certain prisoners did and the conflict of being in a Bible Belt where they had to had to shut the program down. But some of the prisoners continued with the meditation practice inside their cell. And the wardens etc could see a change in these characters.
And the beauty how some prisoners just saw Gangaji in a video and saw her as a door way to freedom.
|
|