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Kensho
Oct 26, 2018 0:43:53 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Oct 26, 2018 0:43:53 GMT -5
From how I've come to understand mushin, I've found that it can be a matter of degree and can relate it to lots of different types of experiences, mostly work and play. I got promoted from dishwasher to cook when I was a 23 year-old college student 'cause of how impressed the chef was with his floor every morning. If you feel like sharing, I'd be curious to know what usually precipitates it for you, although I can only relate to the shaking part in experiences that really shouldn't be shared either on an open forum like this, or really, much anywhere else but between two consenting adults. I've looked to the Zen culture descriptions of kensho over the years to help explain for me what happened after I read Tolle, and I've found quite a bit there, but am acutely aware of how that culture is essentially self-contained, so that projecting what I think my experience has been onto it is something I have to take with a grain of salt. This is interesting how your Soto crew discouraged talk of it, and is concordant with the casual reading I've done on the two different variants. The fact that Low includes Haikun in the title of his book about kensho seems to me to reinforce the distinction, as the interwebs report that we was a Rinzai revivalist. Mushin can happen anywhere doing anything. It's happened when cleaning out my birds' cages. It has happened at my gym. What I'm doing has flow to it maybe because the mind isn't interfering. Every step just happens. I am very relaxed even while exerting myself. It has happened in meditation and carried over for the rest of the day. The first time it happened it lasted three days. I get very quiet. Everyone notices it. As I've said everyone asks me if I'm angry and I tell them no. I feel if I try to explain what is happening it will stop. I can clue my wife in by saying "I'm centered." And she'll stop pestering me. My wife says my speech is slower and my voice deepens.When I start to come out of it, it feels like another person, that is not me. The other day I was in that state watching TV. What I was watching seemed funny. My wife asked if I didn't find it funny. I told her I did. Then she asked me why I wasn't laughing. I don't know. It was almost as if there was no need to laugh. I'm not blissed out or happy pappy, but I can say life never feels better, everything is smooth and effortless. The other weird thing is when I watch TV and the wife isn't around, if some part of a show is too intense, I change the channel. While in mushin I don't. I'm sure it's fairly common. I think the trigger is usually observing the mind. The phrase "being aware of being aware" comes to mind. I kind of slide into that state every once in a while being aware of being aware. Mind's goal now is to try to figure out how to make it permanent. Thanks. Can you say when you started noticing mushin happening? I'm assuming you learned what mushin was from Zen somehow, and what I'm wondering is, once you did, were you able to relate it back to experiences that had happened before you learned about what it was? The low-voice deal is something I've heard other folks relate to, and it's notable from other flow experiences because it actually involves verbal communication while in this state. I've got a funny story about that. Gary Webber describes how he ran a meeting the day of his awakening, and the way he puts it, he did all the things that he used to do as a director of a research lab, but "without thought". There's another point you wrote that I'm interested in, but it would be going off topic as far as experience is concerned, so I'll bring that up in a different thread.
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Deleted
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Kensho
Oct 26, 2018 1:41:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 1:41:04 GMT -5
Mushin can happen anywhere doing anything. It's happened when cleaning out my birds' cages. It has happened at my gym. What I'm doing has flow to it maybe because the mind isn't interfering. Every step just happens. I am very relaxed even while exerting myself. It has happened in meditation and carried over for the rest of the day. The first time it happened it lasted three days. I get very quiet. Everyone notices it. As I've said everyone asks me if I'm angry and I tell them no. I feel if I try to explain what is happening it will stop. I can clue my wife in by saying "I'm centered." And she'll stop pestering me. My wife says my speech is slower and my voice deepens.When I start to come out of it, it feels like another person, that is not me. The other day I was in that state watching TV. What I was watching seemed funny. My wife asked if I didn't find it funny. I told her I did. Then she asked me why I wasn't laughing. I don't know. It was almost as if there was no need to laugh. I'm not blissed out or happy pappy, but I can say life never feels better, everything is smooth and effortless. The other weird thing is when I watch TV and the wife isn't around, if some part of a show is too intense, I change the channel. While in mushin I don't. I'm sure it's fairly common. I think the trigger is usually observing the mind. The phrase "being aware of being aware" comes to mind. I kind of slide into that state every once in a while being aware of being aware. Mind's goal now is to try to figure out how to make it permanent. Thanks. Can you say when you started noticing mushin happening? I'm assuming you learned what mushin was from Zen somehow, and what I'm wondering is, once you did, were you able to relate it back to experiences that had happened before you learned about what it was? The low-voice deal is something I've heard other folks relate to, and it's notable from other flow experiences because it actually involves verbal communication while in this state. I've got a funny story about that. Gary Webber describes how he ran a meeting the day of his awakening, and the way he puts it, he did all the things that he used to do as a director of a research lab, but "without thought". There's another point you wrote that I'm interested in, but it would be going off topic as far as experience is concerned, so I'll bring that up in a different thread. No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common.
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Kensho
Oct 26, 2018 4:01:54 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Oct 26, 2018 4:01:54 GMT -5
I'm just posting so I get 'participated' notifications.
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Kensho
Oct 26, 2018 6:54:27 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Oct 26, 2018 6:54:27 GMT -5
I'm just posting so I get 'participated' notifications. I didn't even know we've got something like that.
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Kensho
Oct 26, 2018 7:39:37 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Oct 26, 2018 7:39:37 GMT -5
Thanks. Can you say when you started noticing mushin happening? I'm assuming you learned what mushin was from Zen somehow, and what I'm wondering is, once you did, were you able to relate it back to experiences that had happened before you learned about what it was? The low-voice deal is something I've heard other folks relate to, and it's notable from other flow experiences because it actually involves verbal communication while in this state. I've got a funny story about that. Gary Webber describes how he ran a meeting the day of his awakening, and the way he puts it, he did all the things that he used to do as a director of a research lab, but "without thought". There's another point you wrote that I'm interested in, but it would be going off topic as far as experience is concerned, so I'll bring that up in a different thread. No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common. It's actually not that common except in spiritual traditions where there's lots of meditation. Top athletes and mountain climbers report getting into the zone periodically, but that's because those activities usually involve such intense concentration that ordinary reflective thinking gets bypassed or short-circuited. It's much more common for long-time meditators. Weber is a good example of someone whose thinking suddenly stopped, and he wrote about the effects of it. I've met many other people at spiritual retreats who have also experienced that. If mushin is a goal, however, then there is still usually a personal self directing any effort to attain it. After SR, mushin may still occur, but it is simply part of the unfolding of THIS.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 2:41:06 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Oct 27, 2018 2:41:06 GMT -5
Thanks. Can you say when you started noticing mushin happening? I'm assuming you learned what mushin was from Zen somehow, and what I'm wondering is, once you did, were you able to relate it back to experiences that had happened before you learned about what it was? The low-voice deal is something I've heard other folks relate to, and it's notable from other flow experiences because it actually involves verbal communication while in this state. I've got a funny story about that. Gary Webber describes how he ran a meeting the day of his awakening, and the way he puts it, he did all the things that he used to do as a director of a research lab, but "without thought". There's another point you wrote that I'm interested in, but it would be going off topic as far as experience is concerned, so I'll bring that up in a different thread. No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common. Yes, there's something very common that's at least similar to what I take mushin to refer to, and perhaps the difference is a matter of degree: we "get out of our own way" and "lose ourselves in the moment" while we "let the thing write itself". That these are cliches, speaks to the commonality. I find it very relevant to the pointing from Tolle, Adya, Niz and others on the nature of the "ego" or the "person" or, more generally speaking, the surprise at discovering that we're not what we thought we were. It seems to me that what "kensho" refers to is something quite deeper and more profound, but entirely related.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 3:53:00 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Oct 27, 2018 3:53:00 GMT -5
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 8:11:20 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Oct 27, 2018 8:11:20 GMT -5
From how I've come to understand mushin, I've found that it can be a matter of degree and can relate it to lots of different types of experiences, mostly work and play. I got promoted from dishwasher to cook when I was a 23 year-old college student 'cause of how impressed the chef was with his floor every morning. If you feel like sharing, I'd be curious to know what usually precipitates it for you, although I can only relate to the shaking part in experiences that really shouldn't be shared either on an open forum like this, or really, much anywhere else but between two consenting adults. I've looked to the Zen culture descriptions of kensho over the years to help explain for me what happened after I read Tolle, and I've found quite a bit there, but am acutely aware of how that culture is essentially self-contained, so that projecting what I think my experience has been onto it is something I have to take with a grain of salt. This is interesting how your Soto crew discouraged talk of it, and is concordant with the casual reading I've done on the two different variants. The fact that Low includes Haikun in the title of his book about kensho seems to me to reinforce the distinction, as the interwebs report that we was a Rinzai revivalist. Mushin can happen anywhere doing anything. It's happened when cleaning out my birds' cages. It has happened at my gym. What I'm doing has flow to it maybe because the mind isn't interfering. Every step just happens. I am very relaxed even while exerting myself. It has happened in meditation and carried over for the rest of the day. The first time it happened it lasted three days. I get very quiet. Everyone notices it. As I've said everyone asks me if I'm angry and I tell them no. I feel if I try to explain what is happening it will stop. I can clue my wife in by saying "I'm centered." And she'll stop pestering me. My wife says my speech is slower and my voice deepens.When I start to come out of it, it feels like another person, that is not me. The other day I was in that state watching TV. What I was watching seemed funny. My wife asked if I didn't find it funny. I told her I did. Then she asked me why I wasn't laughing. I don't know. It was almost as if there was no need to laugh. I'm not blissed out or happy pappy, but I can say life never feels better, everything is smooth and effortless. The other weird thing is when I watch TV and the wife isn't around, if some part of a show is too intense, I change the channel. While in mushin I don't. I'm sure it's fairly common. I think the trigger is usually observing the mind. The phrase "being aware of being aware" comes to mind. I kind of slide into that state every once in a while being aware of being aware. Mind's goal now is to try to figure out how to make it permanent. That's what I call alignment. And alignment can have different flavors. It can be the very quiet and passive kind you've described there or it can be the more outward and active kind like passion or joy. And everyone has a reference for this. In fact, that's typically the state of mind how we spent most of our childhood.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 8:30:16 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Oct 27, 2018 8:30:16 GMT -5
Thanks. Can you say when you started noticing mushin happening? I'm assuming you learned what mushin was from Zen somehow, and what I'm wondering is, once you did, were you able to relate it back to experiences that had happened before you learned about what it was? The low-voice deal is something I've heard other folks relate to, and it's notable from other flow experiences because it actually involves verbal communication while in this state. I've got a funny story about that. Gary Webber describes how he ran a meeting the day of his awakening, and the way he puts it, he did all the things that he used to do as a director of a research lab, but "without thought". There's another point you wrote that I'm interested in, but it would be going off topic as far as experience is concerned, so I'll bring that up in a different thread. No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common.That's exactly it. That's alignment. That's what A-H teach. It basically means being fully present. And with that presence comes extraordinary abilities, coordination and timing. When you are in alignment, you have access to your full resources (aka infinite intelligence). And this is something you can practice and get really good at. But it can also happen spontaneously. In fact, it's natural. It happens 'spontaneously' when you suddenly stop doing whatever keeps you out of it (like thinking bogus thoughts). So this has more something to do with letting go than actually acquiring a new skill. Although it does depend on focus, where you put your attention.Which means it is in your control. And I agree with ZD, you should enjoy it and it is very likely the result of your meditation practice. But you don't need to meditate all day in order to get there. Short periods of meditation (or dissociation as Seth calls it) are enough. It has a accumulative effect to it.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 8:38:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 8:38:04 GMT -5
No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common.That's exactly it. That's alignment. That's what A-H teach. It basically means being fully present. And with that presence comes extraordinary abilities, coordination and timing. When you are in alignment, you have access to your full resources (aka infinite intelligence). And this is something you can practice and get really good at. "Being fully present" is the best description. I think I told ZD, in my pm to him, that I felt a more dense, more solid.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 8:49:54 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Oct 27, 2018 8:49:54 GMT -5
No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common. It's actually not that common except in spiritual traditions where there's lots of meditation. Top athletes and mountain climbers report getting into the zone periodically, but that's because those activities usually involve such intense concentration that ordinary reflective thinking gets bypassed or short-circuited. It's much more common for long-time meditators. Weber is a good example of someone whose thinking suddenly stopped, and he wrote about the effects of it. I've met many other people at spiritual retreats who have also experienced that. If mushin is a goal, however, then there is still usually a personal self directing any effort to attain it. After SR, mushin may still occur, but it is simply part of the unfolding of THIS. I think the spontaneous version is rare, but the other version that comes with intense focus on an activity is a lot more common.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 9:17:56 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Oct 27, 2018 9:17:56 GMT -5
No. I had no reference for mushin. Had never heard the word. I was told to ignore all bizarre experiences. I pm'd ZD and described my experience, asking him if I should ignore it. He said I should enjoy it, that it was a product of meditation. My son who is a martial artist mentioned it. I asked ZD about it and he described what he knew. It fit my experiences. I'd say an athlete being in a "zone," but that was so long ago for me I can't compare it in detail. I remember a basketball game in seventh grade where everything seemed to flow. I couldn't miss a shot if I wanted to. I think it's pretty common. Yes, there's something very common that's at least similar to what I take mushin to refer to, and perhaps the difference is a matter of degree: we "get out of our own way" and "lose ourselves in the moment" while we "let the thing write itself". That these are cliches, speaks to the commonality. I find it very relevant to the pointing from Tolle, Adya, Niz and others on the nature of the "ego" or the "person" or, more generally speaking, the surprise at discovering that we're not what we thought we were. It seems to me that what "kensho" refers to is something quite deeper and more profound, but entirely related. Yes, it's not kensho. But it isn't entirely unrelated either. I always thought that people who know what direct perception is first hand might be more open to what kensho is pointing to. In direct perception, when the mental noise stops, whatever is perceived has a purity, intensity and presence that is quite remarkable and 'addictive'. But that's just a mere shadow in comparison to the kind of presence in kensho. The main difference is how it is perceived, how perception happens. In direct perception it's still with the usual senses and from your usual center. In kensho, it's not with your usual senses and also not from your usual center. Which means kensho belongs to an entirely different realm of reality. Kensho belongs to the realm of the impersonal, the Absolute. Flow still belongs to the personal realm, even though one main characteristic of flow is that you may lose all sense of time (and place) and in very deep states of flow you even might lose your sense of self. However, perception is still local and with the usual senses, just at full capacity. In Kensho, however, it is non-local and not with the usual senses, beyond the usual capacity. So you could say that even though in flow the mental overlay that makes everything dull has been removed, there is still some kind of veil that keeps you from seeing things as they really are, while in kensho that veil has been removed completely and you suddenly see things as they really are.
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Kensho
Oct 27, 2018 17:47:53 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Oct 27, 2018 17:47:53 GMT -5
Yes, there's something very common that's at least similar to what I take mushin to refer to, and perhaps the difference is a matter of degree: we "get out of our own way" and "lose ourselves in the moment" while we "let the thing write itself". That these are cliches, speaks to the commonality. I find it very relevant to the pointing from Tolle, Adya, Niz and others on the nature of the "ego" or the "person" or, more generally speaking, the surprise at discovering that we're not what we thought we were. It seems to me that what "kensho" refers to is something quite deeper and more profound, but entirely related. Yes, it's not kensho. But it isn't entirely unrelated either. I always thought that people who know what direct perception is first hand might be more open to what kensho is pointing to. In direct perception, when the mental noise stops, whatever is perceived has a purity, intensity and presence that is quite remarkable and 'addictive'. But that's just a mere shadow in comparison to the kind of presence in kensho. The main difference is how it is perceived, how perception happens. In direct perception it's still with the usual senses and from your usual center. In kensho, it's not with your usual senses and also not from your usual center. Which means kensho belongs to an entirely different realm of reality. Kensho belongs to the realm of the impersonal, the Absolute. Flow still belongs to the personal realm, even though one main characteristic of flow is that you may lose all sense of time (and place) and in very deep states of flow you even might lose your sense of self. However, perception is still local and with the usual senses, just at full capacity. In Kensho, however, it is non-local and not with the usual senses, beyond the usual capacity. So you could say that even though in flow the mental overlay that makes everything dull has been removed, there is still some kind of veil that keeps you from seeing things as they really are, while in kensho that veil has been removed completely and you suddenly see things as they really are. Yes, but as ZD has pointed out, the common path is that after kensho, the person still thinks of it in terms of something that happened to them, some will even chase it. Kensho and flow are different in that flow will come and go, and the person's perspective, especially in terms of their existential informing of mind, can remain pretty much the same. In contrast, after kensho -- in terms of the way you're refining the term to include the realization aspect -- there's a definite before and after. Even still though, kensho and flow are similar, in this point that there's more likely than not some hands of identity poker left to play after kensho. This makes it clear why kensho, in and of itself, isn't the end of the road. So this dual realization model is illuminating, but in the final analysis still, in my opinion, rather limiting.
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Kensho
Oct 28, 2018 8:34:55 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Oct 28, 2018 8:34:55 GMT -5
Yes, there's something very common that's at least similar to what I take mushin to refer to, and perhaps the difference is a matter of degree: we "get out of our own way" and "lose ourselves in the moment" while we "let the thing write itself". That these are cliches, speaks to the commonality. I find it very relevant to the pointing from Tolle, Adya, Niz and others on the nature of the "ego" or the "person" or, more generally speaking, the surprise at discovering that we're not what we thought we were. It seems to me that what "kensho" refers to is something quite deeper and more profound, but entirely related. Yes, it's not kensho. But it isn't entirely unrelated either. I always thought that people who know what direct perception is first hand might be more open to what kensho is pointing to. In direct perception, when the mental noise stops, whatever is perceived has a purity, intensity and presence that is quite remarkable and 'addictive'. But that's just a mere shadow in comparison to the kind of presence in kensho. The main difference is how it is perceived, how perception happens. In direct perception it's still with the usual senses and from your usual center. In kensho, it's not with your usual senses and also not from your usual center. Which means kensho belongs to an entirely different realm of reality. Kensho belongs to the realm of the impersonal, the Absolute. Flow still belongs to the personal realm, even though one main characteristic of flow is that you may lose all sense of time (and place) and in very deep states of flow you even might lose your sense of self. However, perception is still local and with the usual senses, just at full capacity. In Kensho, however, it is non-local and not with the usual senses, beyond the usual capacity. So you could say that even though in flow the mental overlay that makes everything dull has been removed, there is still some kind of veil that keeps you from seeing things as they really are, while in kensho that veil has been removed completely and you suddenly see things as they really are. I agree. Kensho is definitely non-local. As Courtois and others have noted, it's as if a deeper center of awareness and functionality takes over and becomes dominant. The common words used by most people is that when kensho occurs, the world suddenly becomes "three dimensional" and "alive" compared to the previously perceived world, which then seems two-dimensional and dead by comparison. I suspect that this is why Christ frequently used the phrase "the living truth." For people who access this deeper center of beingness, or whatever we want to call it, all bets are off. Morgan-Somers mentions knowing things that would happen before they happened, and all kinds of other non-local stuff. This makes sense when it's realized that there's no real separation--that the entire cosmos is unified at the most fundamental level. I also suspect that when mystics write about the opening of the third eye, it's that deeper level of awareness and newly-accessed way of seeing that they're referring to. The fundamental realization associated with kensho is that behind all local phenomena is an infinite non-local Presence. There are many other realizations that may also occur, but at the very minimum, the illusion of separateness totally collapses.
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Kensho
Oct 28, 2018 9:00:04 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Oct 28, 2018 9:00:04 GMT -5
Yes, it's not kensho. But it isn't entirely unrelated either. I always thought that people who know what direct perception is first hand might be more open to what kensho is pointing to. In direct perception, when the mental noise stops, whatever is perceived has a purity, intensity and presence that is quite remarkable and 'addictive'. But that's just a mere shadow in comparison to the kind of presence in kensho. The main difference is how it is perceived, how perception happens. In direct perception it's still with the usual senses and from your usual center. In kensho, it's not with your usual senses and also not from your usual center. Which means kensho belongs to an entirely different realm of reality. Kensho belongs to the realm of the impersonal, the Absolute. Flow still belongs to the personal realm, even though one main characteristic of flow is that you may lose all sense of time (and place) and in very deep states of flow you even might lose your sense of self. However, perception is still local and with the usual senses, just at full capacity. In Kensho, however, it is non-local and not with the usual senses, beyond the usual capacity. So you could say that even though in flow the mental overlay that makes everything dull has been removed, there is still some kind of veil that keeps you from seeing things as they really are, while in kensho that veil has been removed completely and you suddenly see things as they really are. Yes, but as ZD has pointed out, the common path is that after kensho, the person still thinks of it in terms of something that happened to them, some will even chase it. Kensho and flow are different in that flow will come and go, and the person's perspective, especially in terms of their existential informing of mind, can remain pretty much the same. In contrast, after kensho -- in terms of the way you're refining the term to include the realization aspect -- there's a definite before and after. Even still though, kensho and flow are similar, in this point that there's more likely than not some hands of identity poker left to play after kensho. This makes it clear why kensho, in and of itself, isn't the end of the road. So this dual realization model is illuminating, but in the final analysis still, in my opinion, rather limiting. Well, kensho CAN be the end of the road, but that's atypical. When it's not, two realizations are always better than one if each realization reveals a different aspect of what's going on. Nevertheless, it's true that no model will ever capture all of the different ways that people "wake up" and become free. Apparently some people get the whole shebang in one deep kensho (the Buddha?), but most people seem to have sequential realizations over a period of time, and each realization results in a bit more freedom from the mind and progressively deeper understanding. Hakuin comes to mind in this respect. What all of the different models are pointing to, in essence, is what's involved in awakening from the consensus paradigm, and the discovery that the cosmos is unified, infinite, and intellectually incomprehensible. Those who discover THAT discover that all of us are one-with THAT.
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