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Fasting
Oct 3, 2018 15:39:42 GMT -5
Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 3, 2018 15:39:42 GMT -5
Lolly I've found a better way to post. Write in a text message and copy and paste. This small box is a small box to type in to. If it doubles up or disappears. It is what it is. Yes Lolly you can adopt a junk food vegetarian or vegan diet. But what makes you so sure? Not just diet but emotions having a heavy pain body can lead to poor health. Also the body knows where it wants to go. Like mine it really has a need to be next to water, with a city nearby. I feel this will be sorted in the next few years. I feel many misunderstand Eckharts take on the pain body. We were both with Barry Long and his take on the pain body. The pain body doesn't just apply to the feelers but also the thinkers too. People who may not have experienced much emotional pain but may have had a pretty much pain free life but also a mind that ran like a train. Take my boss he can say he's never had to worry about paying a bill ever but on a plate he may offer the last chicken leg over to a guest but really he wants it for himself, that's the pain body too. The seeker who wants the guru for himself to be seen as a great meditator over others feels sharing over with another as painful or if the teacher places attention to a new seeker he may feel like taking a knife out to stab both teacher and student. A bit like the story of the prodigal son in the bible. Or one who can know more book knowledge over one who hasn't. Why Ramana said the cook in the kitchen who serves is better than one who comes with his book knowledge, Guru Gobind once went to battle on return he told his warriors this man who I told to just comb the hair of the horses and still is, will come to this place of stillness. With Guru Ravidas he remained in the leather trade. Princess Mira Bai the great sage left diamonds in his thatched roof but on her return she would find they were still there. The king approached him so the story goes and a story is that its either true or not but can be a pointer. He asked Ravidas for truth and he gave him a glass of water in which he had been dipping his leather in. The king pretended to drink it and poured it down his shirt, his sleeve. On going back to his kingdom he summoned the laundry man to clean his shirt. And in fear he scrubbed and scrubbed but fell asleep from exhaustion. His poor daughter knowing that her father would have to face the king began to chew on the sleeve to take out the leather stains but in her devotion to her father she awakened. Started speaking from That space. The story goes that he summoned her before and asked how she came to this and she said I just chewed on your shirt trying to get the leather stains out. Even the size of your plate can work against you. You can read this in many ways..... I say this đas I used to cut my elderly neighbours lawn every Sunday. And they would pull out their plates and explain how they were handed down from their parents. The plate sizes were tiny, they ate meat too but they both had slim waist sizes too. So like the plant based experts like Dr Michael Greger, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Campbell. Take your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. In all diets you have to get that ratio right. Most don't. Most people who will eat biscuits or cakes can say yes yes yes to it but in business the manufacturers are going to use cheaper oils most likely higher in omega 6. Which is not good for you. In the China Study by Professor Campbell and he was raised on a farm around livestock. Dr Caldwell Esselstyn too. They both were born around pretty much the same time. Challenged the food pyramid we are advised to go by. So your argument on being advised by a qualified nutritionist falls a little short according to them. As they have published many scientific publications on nutrition and health. Dr Esselstyn has more than 150 publications. Is the author of prevent and reverse heart disease, the revolutionary , scientifically nutrition based cure. 20 years ago when I first came across them both the studies were here and there. Now they are published they are pretty much self evident. But don't take my word for it do your own search. That applies on your search for truth too. When president Clinton was in power they tried to push for the food pyramid to be changed as they were challenging the information the standard but they were ignored, and as they said recently they felt the full force from the Dairy and Meat industry over the years. I do feel they genuinely care for people's health. They don't want people to die and sages who do care for people want them to die in a different way. And they have also pointed out time and time again how doctors when they are taught medicine do little if any research into nutrition and food. Maybe two or three hours throughout their PhD. You will find vegans know more on nutrition than you average doctor. With Dr Michael Greger he will do the real science. Swap groups over, add placebo effects, to see how sound his advice may be on if a patient adds this plant or that fruit in to their diet. And he allows the science to see if it's true or not. And he makes sure he's out of the way. Being out of the way. It's a good trait. Here is a recent video I'll watch the vid later. It loos interesting. I think people can take on too much at a time, bite off more than they can chew, and it is too chaotic to deal with the whole gamut in one go, so I like to look over the entire person, physical/psychological and spiritual, and then address the lifestyle in manageable steps. The physical, being the 'gateway', is the first step, so I wouldn't address the emotional dimensions directly, but 'go through the body' to get there, so to speak. In the diet context, where 'diet' simply means the food one consumes, it's all math. What do you weigh, what is the fat percentage, what are their physical activity levels, how many calories are needed to lose or gain weight, whats the optimal nutrient distribution, what activity best signals the preservation or increase of muscle mass, and how to implement that in a way that affects change in a person's lifestyleThe notion of lifestyle is important because sustainability is 'a way of life'. A change in lifestyle at the physical level will reveal the emotional aspects of the situation, and when a person is already proactively addressing their physical condition, and have already affected noticeable change in body composition, that helps them to have some level of confidence to overcome their emotional hurdles. The nutritional guidelines are essentially useless in that they are hegemonic and designed for people who don't anything about nutrition. It's not something that dietitians actually follow. Dietitians count calorie intake and advise on nutrient distribution on an individual basis, and anyone who advises not consulting a dietitian is giving terrible advice. It's true that medical doctors have poor nutritional knowledge and knowledge about exercise, which is pretty strange for what is called a 'health professional'. That shows how perverse the system is and perhaps explains why health systems are overwhelmed by entirely preventable illnesses. I'm sure Greger is good at what he does, and I'm sure in his vegan advocacy he stresses to importance of supplementation. Of course nutrient distribution include plant foods and whole foods as critically important, and if a person adheres to a vegan lifestyle, then certain supplements are necessary. The issue with veganism is that it is an ethical issue, so people including Greger are biased, righteously. This limits his clientele to vegans as people who consume animal products already know he's only going to advise veganism. That's not the way to 'do good', and purely nutritionally speaking, animal products are necessary for a complete real food nutritional profile. This is a huge 'inconvenient truth' for the vegan argument because actually, the vegan diet is sub-optimal nutritionally speaking as it cannot provide a complete nutrient profile. There are very good ethical reasons to be vegan, though, and supplementation resolves any nutrient deficiency. There is only one supplement needed if one eats no meat. The only natural place to get vitamin B12 is from meat. This is an absolutely necessary vitamin. So if you eat no meat you absolutely must take vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be obtained by eating a plant based diet. The main purpose of meat is to get the necessary protein. There are 20 amino acids which constitute protein. A portion of meat about the size of one palm is what's necessary for the daily intake of protein, about 60 grams minimum. All the 20 amino acids can be obtained by combining plants, this throughout the meals of one day. Example, cows are very healthy without eating meat. What you say is just not accurate. (BTW, for the record, carbohydrates are also essentially unnecessary for good nutrition). [Quote your source and I'll quote mine].
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Post by laughter on Oct 4, 2018 1:09:51 GMT -5
The vegan discussion seems to me to be OT, but I found this rather fascinating: So she's going beyond (or rather, in a different direction from) the idea of the re-purposing of the digestive enzymes once the colon is clear. She suggests that fasting can lead to a state where the body engages in a greater rate of cellular repair. It's fascinating, because I don't know what that "hum" is when I fast, but I like it! Her point about getting to this state with less internal resistance from a low-carb diet is one that certainly fits my experience, but I understand that there's a wide range of human biology depending on where one's ancestors are from, so I don't know if that's necessarily a universal.
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Post by lolly on Oct 4, 2018 6:11:44 GMT -5
I'll watch the vid later. It loos interesting. I think people can take on too much at a time, bite off more than they can chew, and it is too chaotic to deal with the whole gamut in one go, so I like to look over the entire person, physical/psychological and spiritual, and then address the lifestyle in manageable steps. The physical, being the 'gateway', is the first step, so I wouldn't address the emotional dimensions directly, but 'go through the body' to get there, so to speak. In the diet context, where 'diet' simply means the food one consumes, it's all math. What do you weigh, what is the fat percentage, what are their physical activity levels, how many calories are needed to lose or gain weight, whats the optimal nutrient distribution, what activity best signals the preservation or increase of muscle mass, and how to implement that in a way that affects change in a person's lifestyleThe notion of lifestyle is important because sustainability is 'a way of life'. A change in lifestyle at the physical level will reveal the emotional aspects of the situation, and when a person is already proactively addressing their physical condition, and have already affected noticeable change in body composition, that helps them to have some level of confidence to overcome their emotional hurdles. The nutritional guidelines are essentially useless in that they are hegemonic and designed for people who don't anything about nutrition. It's not something that dietitians actually follow. Dietitians count calorie intake and advise on nutrient distribution on an individual basis, and anyone who advises not consulting a dietitian is giving terrible advice. It's true that medical doctors have poor nutritional knowledge and knowledge about exercise, which is pretty strange for what is called a 'health professional'. That shows how perverse the system is and perhaps explains why health systems are overwhelmed by entirely preventable illnesses. I'm sure Greger is good at what he does, and I'm sure in his vegan advocacy he stresses to importance of supplementation. Of course nutrient distribution include plant foods and whole foods as critically important, and if a person adheres to a vegan lifestyle, then certain supplements are necessary. The issue with veganism is that it is an ethical issue, so people including Greger are biased, righteously. This limits his clientele to vegans as people who consume animal products already know he's only going to advise veganism. That's not the way to 'do good', and purely nutritionally speaking, animal products are necessary for a complete real food nutritional profile. This is a huge 'inconvenient truth' for the vegan argument because actually, the vegan diet is sub-optimal nutritionally speaking as it cannot provide a complete nutrient profile. There are very good ethical reasons to be vegan, though, and supplementation resolves any nutrient deficiency. There is only one supplement needed if one eats no meat. The only natural place to get vitamin B12 is from meat. This is an absolutely necessary vitamin. So if you eat no meat you absolutely must take vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be obtained by eating a plant based diet. The main purpose of meat is to get the necessary protein. There are 20 amino acids which constitute protein. A portion of meat about the size of one palm is what's necessary for the daily intake of protein, about 60 grams minimum. All the 20 amino acids can be obtained by combining plants, this throughout the meals of one day. Example, cows are very healthy without eating meat. What you say is just not accurate. (BTW, for the record, carbohydrates are also essentially unnecessary for good nutrition). [Quote your source and I'll quote mine]. Yes, B12 is an essential nutrient which can only be found in animal products (including dairy, which how Jains get it) (vegan supplements would be made from bacteria - fermentation), but there are other nutrients which vegans tend to be deficient in like iron, zinc, calcium..., which can be obtained from veges but often are not, so although B12 is a critical supplement for vegans, vegans are more likely to be deficient in other micronutrients usually obtained from animal products.
If people ate what cows and other grazers eat they wouldn't be healthy.
Yes carbs are not an essential nutrient.
Protein intake depends on a person's bodyweight, particularly their lean mass, so me at 90kg and 20% body fat and high activity levels needs much more protein (and other nutrients) than a 53kg female with a sedentary lifestyle - lots more. Optimally, a person would consume at least 0.7g per pound of bodyweight (if they are of a reasonable healthy weight). It also depends on activity, as more active people need more calories in general, and protein is an essential part of the calorie distribution.
I think tofu and quinoa has all the essential amino acids, so these should be a primary protein source for vegans.
I'm not putting up sources, but feel free to double check what I say.
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Fasting
Oct 5, 2018 16:51:24 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Oct 5, 2018 16:51:24 GMT -5
There is only one supplement needed if one eats no meat. The only natural place to get vitamin B12 is from meat. This is an absolutely necessary vitamin. So if you eat no meat you absolutely must take vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be obtained by eating a plant based diet. The main purpose of meat is to get the necessary protein. There are 20 amino acids which constitute protein. A portion of meat about the size of one palm is what's necessary for the daily intake of protein, about 60 grams minimum. All the 20 amino acids can be obtained by combining plants, this throughout the meals of one day. Example, cows are very healthy without eating meat. What you say is just not accurate. (BTW, for the record, carbohydrates are also essentially unnecessary for good nutrition). [Quote your source and I'll quote mine]. Yes, B12 is an essential nutrient which can only be found in animal products (including dairy, which how Jains get it) (vegan supplements would be made from bacteria - fermentation), but there are other nutrients which vegans tend to be deficient in like iron, zinc, calcium..., which can be obtained from veges but often are not, so although B12 is a critical supplement for vegans, vegans are more likely to be deficient in other micronutrients usually obtained from animal products.
If people ate what cows and other grazers eat they wouldn't be healthy.
Yes carbs are not an essential nutrient.
Protein intake depends on a person's bodyweight, particularly their lean mass, so me at 90kg and 20% body fat and high activity levels needs much more protein (and other nutrients) than a 53kg female with a sedentary lifestyle - lots more. Optimally, a person would consume at least 0.7g per pound of bodyweight (if they are of a reasonable healthy weight). It also depends on activity, as more active people need more calories in general, and protein is an essential part of the calorie distribution.
I think tofu and quinoa has all the essential amino acids, so these should be a primary protein source for vegans.
I'm not putting up sources, but feel free to double check what I say.
Yes and moving away from lifestyle choices such as exercise is vitally important, being close to nature, right sleep, being still so the brain and body rests, the scripts you run, can be important in the story and the intake of vitamins and types of food intake. There's always that tug of war in the world of opposites the churning of the ocean. War then peace, love and hate, right diet wrong diet. Muscles, no muscle. Yes the boundaries tend to get blurred after awakening on the opposites as there is more of a flow. But as it's a play let's dance. There's no right or wrong. I do agree that certain vegans and meat eaters can be lacking in certain vitamins a past study on vegans showed they were eating less calcium in their diet and were at risk of bone fractures. That has now changed with more nutritionists and doctors who advocate a more plant based diet. Most people in the USA will die through a lifestyle related diet related disease. Heart disease, cancer being at the top of the list. The great sage who this site is based on is Richard Rose. He had Alzheimer's. Now certain sages will say Bach hey, hey don't go there .......you know we have to keep on to something here a bad diet, or take on our students karma, as we would be gone we have to hold on to some thread in this play out world. True. But this isn't about the sages, this is about health in the story, there is now strong evidence on the link between saturated fat and Alzheimer's. See the published papers by Dr Neal Barnard or you can look him up on YouTube on how to protect your brain from neurodegenerative diseases. Especially from a meat based diet. Or the use of cheap oils in food that effect both a plant based diet and meat based diet. As was mentioned a few posts back the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. Pretty much everyone gets this one wrong. I have in the past. I can say in this stillness the body tends to have a taste of what it needs. It was wrong on that ratio. But getting it wrong also helped many others to get it right. So this is for people on here or people looking in. If you're going to wake up you will if you're not you won't. You do this and that but it's all grace. As That is being you at this present time and in all times past. There is only one player in this game. As It's just That putting on the mask, the game of apparent separation and then taking if off. A sage is always a surrogate of the times, dresses according to the times, and takes on the tastes and changing tastes available, talks of the issues of the times. And health is a big issue of this time. Most of the rise in plant based nutrition is happening from young children. Why large corps look at trends and match trends with the products they bring out. Even McDonald's has brought out a McVegan burger. Adidas web spun vegan biodegradable trainers, the traditional Stan Smith trainers in collaboration with Stella McCartney. They have their researchers, their researchers will be looking at trends across many areas. Even looking at Professor Campbell. And that's what makes a good researcher as they will sell their research to the big boys. Just as in Birmingham UK, the rising developments have to have had research behind on the behaviour and trends of the young people looking to move there. As they catch their prey when they are young. If you were to drawn to Nike as a child chances are you are still wearing that brand today. Heinz, as a child Heinz as a father. They have to in order to be leaders on the high street. They are not concerned on your health or whether you can afford these items. They have to make you love these items and a sage who knows what he's doing has to get the seeker to love him. Not the form but the stillness. As it's rare to find a ready made candle, most need to be made. And then lit. And in these times the trends are children are becoming more conscious consumers, young people will want sages to match this too. So That will appear as a vegan or plant based sage. Even though That is beyond all diets. It's just to get them to love them as they will scrutinise and throw out teachings where sages have been meat eaters. Just as we look at and question the presidents who placed law but also kept slaves or how many now to question Ghandhi when he could be very racist towards people of black skin. Getting advice from a nutritionist is good but making a varied search is even better. As you become more informed on what your body needs and what may have been missed from the dietician and their credentials. Do you know most if not more than 75% are vitamin D deficient. And it gets worse for people of dark skin. And people as they age. My nutritionist never told me that. I had to find out what she had missed out as she was googling most of my questions. A good way to approach this is not to adopt any style, be it a meat eater or plant based lover. I sound like Bruce Lee now. It is to look at the food table. It's history, how it came about. The science behind it. And then look at the opposition the plant based Professors, doctors. Their arguments take on the food table. And then make an informed choice on what suits your body on health. As Hippocrates said let food be thy medicine. Problem today for most food isn't their medicine. I was watching a documentary the other day on Kuwait which is mainly a Muslim country. They have moved away from their traditional diets and have adopted a more American based diet. And they are feeling the effects of it. From obesity and all the lifestyle diseases that come with it. But it is what is from this will come the opposite in time. As Prince Khaled the son of the multibillionaire investor became ill through his high meat and fat diet. He picked up Doctor Michael Gregers book on How Not To Die. Applied his diet, came offhis medication. Invited him over and now has found his passion, purpose in the story. His father after meeting Dr Michael Greger adopted a plant based diet too. Now he invests in plant based businesses with some other large investors as he knows the future is a more plant based diet, a more ethical way of living. The fashion industry is going through this shift too. The London fashion show banned fur the other month as did Helsinki fashion show with leather and fur. As they promoted more ethical and vegan based fashion. And the trends will be like this in the future. Not just fashion, food but you will find parks, businesses and walkways in the future with plant based offerings. Like we are in the leather industry we know come twenty years time the plant based leather will be a biodegradable better alternative to match the changing trends that are appearing. You love đexercising, seem to have sound knowledge on it but watch how many young vegan bodybuilders appear in your gym over the next coming years. They will be throwing you out. đĽđ. You think sages have their problems wait till you meet a vegan bodybuilder or a vegan free runner. I know early on in the awakening I was helping some children who had been in and out of homes. So when I was off work I was able to help. But they came as teachers to me too not just the sages that appeared. Now they are coming as teachers to me ones in biomedical science the other in physics. Both are about to graduate in November why I've not been on here. Pushing me come to the graduation day but I've told them to keep an empty chair. And I feel they will understand what that means. One was telling me on her running how it's free style how she runs and feels the moment. Feels where her body wants to stop off and feel an alive rock. Placing her hands where she feels the body wants to her to be and then pushing off. Or running her hand past a tree. I have to sit down to take it in . I can just about get out of my car and walk around the corner to my building. I would rather put my thumb out and can catch a lift even if it's a few yards. I've found when you are in stuck in the now you get lazy. đ
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Post by lolly on Oct 6, 2018 1:09:25 GMT -5
Yes, B12 is an essential nutrient which can only be found in animal products (including dairy, which how Jains get it) (vegan supplements would be made from bacteria - fermentation), but there are other nutrients which vegans tend to be deficient in like iron, zinc, calcium..., which can be obtained from veges but often are not, so although B12 is a critical supplement for vegans, vegans are more likely to be deficient in other micronutrients usually obtained from animal products.
If people ate what cows and other grazers eat they wouldn't be healthy.
Yes carbs are not an essential nutrient.
Protein intake depends on a person's bodyweight, particularly their lean mass, so me at 90kg and 20% body fat and high activity levels needs much more protein (and other nutrients) than a 53kg female with a sedentary lifestyle - lots more. Optimally, a person would consume at least 0.7g per pound of bodyweight (if they are of a reasonable healthy weight). It also depends on activity, as more active people need more calories in general, and protein is an essential part of the calorie distribution.
I think tofu and quinoa has all the essential amino acids, so these should be a primary protein source for vegans.
I'm not putting up sources, but feel free to double check what I say.
Yes and moving away from lifestyle choices such as exercise is vitally important, being close to nature, right sleep, being still so the brain and body rests, the scripts you run, can be important in the story and the intake of vitamins and types of food intake. There's always that tug of war in the world of opposites the churning of the ocean. War then peace, love and hate, right diet wrong diet. Muscles, no muscle. Yes the boundaries tend to get blurred after awakening on the opposites as there is more of a flow. But as it's a play let's dance. There's no right or wrong. I do agree that certain vegans and meat eaters can be lacking in certain vitamins a past study on vegans showed they were eating less calcium in their diet and were at risk of bone fractures. That has now changed with more nutritionists and doctors who advocate a more plant based diet. Most people in the USA will die through a lifestyle related diet related disease. Heart disease, cancer being at the top of the list. The great sage who this site is based on is Richard Rose. He had Alzheimer's. Now certain sages will say Bach hey, hey don't go there .......you know we have to keep on to something here a bad diet, or take on our students karma, as we would be gone we have to hold on to some thread in this play out world. True. But this isn't about the sages, this is about health in the story, there is now strong evidence on the link between saturated fat and Alzheimer's. See the published papers by Dr Neal Barnard or you can look him up on YouTube on how to protect your brain from neurodegenerative diseases. Especially from a meat based diet. Or the use of cheap oils in food that effect both a plant based diet and meat based diet. As was mentioned a few posts back the ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 ratio. Pretty much everyone gets this one wrong. I have in the past. I can say in this stillness the body tends to have a taste of what it needs. It was wrong on that ratio. But getting it wrong also helped many others to get it right. So this is for people on here or people looking in. If you're going to wake up you will if you're not you won't. You do this and that but it's all grace. As That is being you at this present time and in all times past. There is only one player in this game. As It's just That putting on the mask, the game of apparent separation and then taking if off. A sage is always a surrogate of the times, dresses according to the times, and takes on the tastes and changing tastes available, talks of the issues of the times. And health is a big issue of this time. Most of the rise in plant based nutrition is happening from young children. Why large corps look at trends and match trends with the products they bring out. Even McDonald's has brought out a McVegan burger. Adidas web spun vegan biodegradable trainers, the traditional Stan Smith trainers in collaboration with Stella McCartney. They have their researchers, their researchers will be looking at trends across many areas. Even looking at Professor Campbell. And that's what makes a good researcher as they will sell their research to the big boys. Just as in Birmingham UK, the rising developments have to have had research behind on the behaviour and trends of the young people looking to move there. As they catch their prey when they are young. If you were to drawn to Nike as a child chances are you are still wearing that brand today. Heinz, as a child Heinz as a father. They have to in order to be leaders on the high street. They are not concerned on your health or whether you can afford these items. They have to make you love these items and a sage who knows what he's doing has to get the seeker to love him. Not the form but the stillness. As it's rare to find a ready made candle, most need to be made. And then lit. And in these times the trends are children are becoming more conscious consumers, young people will want sages to match this too. So That will appear as a vegan or plant based sage. Even though That is beyond all diets. It's just to get them to love them as they will scrutinise and throw out teachings where sages have been meat eaters. Just as we look at and question the presidents who placed law but also kept slaves or how many now to question Ghandhi when he could be very racist towards people of black skin. Getting advice from a nutritionist is good but making a varied search is even better. As you become more informed on what your body needs and what may have been missed from the dietician and their credentials. Do you know most if not more than 75% are vitamin D deficient. And it gets worse for people of dark skin. And people as they age. My nutritionist never told me that. I had to find out what she had missed out as she was googling most of my questions. A good way to approach this is not to adopt any style, be it a meat eater or plant based lover. I sound like Bruce Lee now. It is to look at the food table. It's history, how it came about. The science behind it. And then look at the opposition the plant based Professors, doctors. Their arguments take on the food table. And then make an informed choice on what suits your body on health. As Hippocrates said let food be thy medicine. Problem today for most food isn't their medicine. I was watching a documentary the other day on Kuwait which is mainly a Muslim country. They have moved away from their traditional diets and have adopted a more American based diet. And they are feeling the effects of it. From obesity and all the lifestyle diseases that come with it. But it is what is from this will come the opposite in time. As Prince Khaled the son of the multibillionaire investor became ill through his high meat and fat diet. He picked up Doctor Michael Gregers book on How Not To Die. Applied his diet, came offhis medication. Invited him over and now has found his passion, purpose in the story. His father after meeting Dr Michael Greger adopted a plant based diet too. Now he invests in plant based businesses with some other large investors as he knows the future is a more plant based diet, a more ethical way of living. The fashion industry is going through this shift too. The London fashion show banned fur the other month as did Helsinki fashion show with leather and fur. As they promoted more ethical and vegan based fashion. And the trends will be like this in the future. Not just fashion, food but you will find parks, businesses and walkways in the future with plant based offerings. Like we are in the leather industry we know come twenty years time the plant based leather will be a biodegradable better alternative to match the changing trends that are appearing. You love đexercising, seem to have sound knowledge on it but watch how many young vegan bodybuilders appear in your gym over the next coming years. They will be throwing you out. đĽđ. You think sages have their problems wait till you meet a vegan bodybuilder or a vegan free runner. I know early on in the awakening I was helping some children who had been in and out of homes. So when I was off work I was able to help. But they came as teachers to me too not just the sages that appeared. Now they are coming as teachers to me ones in biomedical science the other in physics. Both are about to graduate in November why I've not been on here. Pushing me come to the graduation day but I've told them to keep an empty chair. And I feel they will understand what that means. One was telling me on her running how it's free style how she runs and feels the moment. Feels where her body wants to stop off and feel an alive rock. Placing her hands where she feels the body wants to her to be and then pushing off. Or running her hand past a tree. I have to sit down to take it in . I can just about get out of my car and walk around the corner to my building. I would rather put my thumb out and can catch a lift even if it's a few yards. I've found when you are in stuck in the now you get lazy. đ I know a few vegan athletes in strength sports who excel, but they understand nutrition and eat to enhance their performance. All I say is, the nutrient profile is what it is. There are thousands of different ways of eating, and the necessary nutrients can be tasken in thousands of ways. The vegan lifestyle is surely a very healthy one which simply requires supplementation.
Unless a sage has studied and has scientific knowledge of nutrition, they aren't capable of giving sound dietary advice. When I ran the kitchen at the ashram (vegetarian) we consulted a dietitian to ensure optimum nutrition; not the resident enlightened one, UG krishnamurti or Abraham Hicks!
There is a good idea to make a varied search but stick to the science, and avoid spiritualists who have no qualifications in the field. 'Spiritual' is a qualification, and people who use it as one are either deluded or dishonest. If there is an ethical consideration involved, go with what is 'good', and get the nutrient profile in that way.
I'm definitely with Hippocrates. 'Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food', since most disease is whollly preventable and diet related. But this is a cultural issue, a socio-economic effect, so to speak, when 'normal' behaviour in our society produces a trend toward higher obesity rates (and higher rates of eating disorders) in younger and younger people. I mean the level of harm caused by this trend is unimaginable... and to reverse the trend is to transform the cultural worldview. If the vegan view influences cultural paradigms in that way I couldn't be happier. Personally, I don't want to 'dictate' any ethical stance because animal products play an essential role in all human whole food nutrient profiles. Of course a vegan can get animal based nutrients by suplementing, which is just as good.
Indeed most of us are D3 deficient. Yes, research yourself, but ya really have to sort the chaff form the hay because there is a lot of crazytown out there! A 'nutritionist' who googles your questions is a quack. A 'dietitian' would never refer to themselves as a 'nutritionist', though. I don't even know what a 'nutritionist' is!
Well said about sleep. That's most often overlooked.
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Fasting
Oct 7, 2018 22:36:01 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Oct 7, 2018 22:36:01 GMT -5
As this thread is on fasting I don't feel you need to fast if you have adopted a whole plant based diet which also includes fruits. The China Study is an important read as you can see the politics behind the diet and nutritional pyramid ( a plate now) that has been set up by a committee that includes corporations and people, scientists in the medical field. Who then fund and promote what they decide is right science to students in the medical field. Doctors who repeat, have little nutritional information, nutritionists and dieticians who learn from book knowledge that's been set around a table they were never part of but how many sit up and say who wrote this. Let me follow the trail back to see if it really serves or am I just a pawn just a player to promote something I am just taught to repeat. Either way I get payed as I've just graduated, my parents are so proud.
The consumers are also to blame too as they especially in the western world accept any authority as being the Truth especially if they have a few letters afters their name.
Lolly you mentioned a nutritionist coming to an Ashram. You didn't mention if a few had come. So you could make an informed choice. Which one was best for the job for the different satsangis that visited the Ashram, just out of interest who was the sage running it ?
Reading books by Dr Michael Greger, Professor Campbell, Dr Dean Ornish, Dr Esselstyn and Dr Pam Popper. None of these doctors are on any medication and some have mentioned how some of their peers, co workers in their same fields they have been in have been under the knife or are on medication. Food is their medicine and their own health not their credentials are also good pointers.
If I have a problem with my health say my heart I will look to Dr Esselstyn, as president Clinton did even though he ignored their advice on changing the food pyramid/plate as from their stand point it's serving corporations and large pharmaceutical companies and not real health.
If I want to know about nutrition, the food pyramid cancer I will look to Dr Campbell, when he says ditch the dairy he's done his research. He will approach the fiercest critics leaders in cancer research and present his peer reviewed findings. Only for them in his words to say we can't fault the science but you are up against large corporations. Who fund us.
Alzheimer's Dr Neal Bernard head of the committee for responsible medicine who bravely sues, keeps a sharp eye out for misinformation thats placed out in to the public eye by research funded by large corporations who have little care for health. He knows most nutritionists/ dieticians people go to are misinformed. As they are giving advice on nutrition from a pyramid/ plate that has the food industry at the top and not real science or science that has been funded not to serve health but profits. And you can include Marion Nestle Professor of Nutrition at New York university and author of Food Politics on how she lectures on how industries influence on policy and shape the food pyramid
To understand and read up on the ins and out of funding a medical research that popped up let's just say to say eat more eggs in a paper headline when the dairy industry funded it and paid a few doctors a six figure sum to do the research I would look to Dr Pam Popper and email Dr Campbell to see how true this article is or not. His thoughts.
And this applies to awakening too. Being with a sage. Some will excuse the bad behaviour of a sage as crazy wisdom. For the victim it may be a different story. But you will find a committee to protect the behaviour. They only change when the many sit up and say hey what's going on here.
Again it's all the one essence being everything, nothing at the same time. One Being One in all things. But as Stardust said he had a health problem he applied a method it worked for him. I don't have children but his children may have said Dad how's your health. He may say I'm fine I applied this method and it worked for me.
We give out food in deprived areas in Birmingham. Chances are most of what we hand out isn't good food for their real needs. The two people I mentioned earlier who are graduating soon. They know this have been there, why I took them on as children. They love the fact they have had an experience that I haven't had. It's been twenty years. Just helping them with my sisters where every university were competing over them, the business people at work they have all helped. They are coming to us as teachers now. That free style running the young girl does and the music and those big headphones. That Being That đ¤
I can't remember who coined the words it takes a village to raise a child. But it's very true.
There's a part in the documentary on Forks over Knives Douglas Lisle talks of the pleasure trap in the story. Food and sex. Or for a male sex and food đ. It's worth watching. Why so many dislike real plant based food. As it's so ordinary and when you come upon That you will find it's very ordinary too.
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Post by lolly on Oct 8, 2018 0:50:13 GMT -5
The issue at the ashram started when meditation students complained that the vegetarian menu didn't include adequate protein, which was true. Some of the workers involved in hard physical labour had also said they bring their own food because the kitchen wasn't providing enough of the right nutrients that enable hard physical labour.
The vegetarian way of life includes dairy, but not eggs, or other ova. We ended up increasing the protein by ensuring rich sources such as beans, tofu, sunflower seeds, lentils, chickpeas etc were the basis of lunch, and more nuts and seeds provided to supplement the porridge based breakfast (there was no dinner served because the tradition is not to eat after the midday meal.
The dietitians are scientists who know what food contains which nutrients and the details of how these are absorbed and processed in the body. The triangle they use isn't the same triangle produced as 'dietary guidelines'. The dietary guidelines are only a hegemonic overview, so it's practically useless on any individual level. The way we formulate nutrition is a triangle model that represents the steps involved in making individual dietary recommendations, so it includes the rules that apply to everyone without exception.
1) The bottom or the foundation level of the triangle is 'calories'. Based on body weight, resting metabolic rate, activity levels and the individual's goal of losing or gaining weight there is a caloric requirement.
2) The next level up is macronutrients. Protein, carbs and fat. The sum of these make up the calories. The protein is a constant and the ratio of fats and carbs are flexible depending on the individual's preferences. This is where the dietary recommendation triangle becomes useless as some people thrive on higher carbs while others are best off on higher fats.
3) The third level is 'micronutrients', basically vitamins and minerals, which are gotten from a variety of fruit and veg mostly... with exceptions such as dairy for calcium, for example... but I'm not going into the minutiae here.
4) The forth level is meal frequency. What times does an individual eat and how to distribute the nutrients and calories across those meals and snacks.
5) Once all that is established, the top apex of the triangle is 'supplements', which address anY nutrient deficiency not incorporated in the real food diet.
In this way, an individual's dietary needs are determined considering their respective lifestyles and food preferences. No two people have the same needs, and the ways in which individuals obtain their nutrient profile are unique. Hence it has little to nothing to do with the dietary recommendation triangle (DRT).
Following the science is a dubious business, because a lot of studies are biased by industry funding apart from the researches' personal bias. We have so called 'nutritionists' (whatever that is) and doctors who say the most outlandish things out of their ignorance and unethical profit motives... I mean Dr. Oz, for example, will say whatever he's sponsored to say. Then there's the spiritual ones who seem to think they are given divine nutritional knowledge - all hocum.
Basically, if a discourse on diet and nutrition doesn't follow/include the format I outlined above, it's bound to be nonsense.
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Post by lolly on Oct 8, 2018 1:08:27 GMT -5
PS. I will watch your you tube link now.
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Post by lolly on Oct 8, 2018 4:27:28 GMT -5
You will find that there isn't much accurate information in the 'plant based diet' lit, and a great deal of nonsense, but a qualified dietitian could inform people about a purely vegan way of eating, which would near enough always involve supplementing essential nutrients. There can be very unhealthy plant based diets and there can be very healthy diets involving animal products. Almost all dietitians would agree that including animal products in ones diet is optimal (though this can be substituted by supplementation for vegans). I'm sure Greger explains the importance of supplementation, him being a doctor and all, and sensible dietitians recommend getting nutrients from actual food before resorting to supplements. The nutritional case for veganism is, therefore, unsound, but the ethical case is very compelling. Lolly I've found a better way to post. Write in a text message and copy and paste. This small box is a small box to type in to. If it doubles up or disappears. It is what it is. Yes Lolly you can adopt a junk food vegetarian or vegan diet. But what makes you so sure? Not just diet but emotions having a heavy pain body can lead to poor health. Also the body knows where it wants to go. Like mine it really has a need to be next to water, with a city nearby. I feel this will be sorted in the next few years. I feel many misunderstand Eckharts take on the pain body. We were both with Barry Long and his take on the pain body. The pain body doesn't just apply to the feelers but also the thinkers too. People who may not have experienced much emotional pain but may have had a pretty much pain free life but also a mind that ran like a train. Take my boss he can say he's never had to worry about paying a bill ever but on a plate he may offer the last chicken leg over to a guest but really he wants it for himself, that's the pain body too. The seeker who wants the guru for himself to be seen as a great meditator over others feels sharing over with another as painful or if the teacher places attention to a new seeker he may feel like taking a knife out to stab both teacher and student. A bit like the story of the prodigal son in the bible. Or one who can know more book knowledge over one who hasn't. Why Ramana said the cook in the kitchen who serves is better than one who comes with his book knowledge, Guru Gobind once went to battle on return he told his warriors this man who I told to just comb the hair of the horses and still is, will come to this place of stillness. With Guru Ravidas he remained in the leather trade. Princess Mira Bai the great sage left diamonds in his thatched roof but on her return she would find they were still there. The king approached him so the story goes and a story is that its either true or not but can be a pointer. He asked Ravidas for truth and he gave him a glass of water in which he had been dipping his leather in. The king pretended to drink it and poured it down his shirt, his sleeve. On going back to his kingdom he summoned the laundry man to clean his shirt. And in fear he scrubbed and scrubbed but fell asleep from exhaustion. His poor daughter knowing that her father would have to face the king began to chew on the sleeve to take out the leather stains but in her devotion to her father she awakened. Started speaking from That space. The story goes that he summoned her before and asked how she came to this and she said I just chewed on your shirt trying to get the leather stains out. Even the size of your plate can work against you. You can read this in many ways..... I say this đas I used to cut my elderly neighbours lawn every Sunday. And they would pull out their plates and explain how they were handed down from their parents. The plate sizes were tiny, they ate meat too but they both had slim waist sizes too. So like the plant based experts like Dr Michael Greger, Dr Esselstyn, Dr Campbell. Take your ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. In all diets you have to get that ratio right. Most don't. Most people who will eat biscuits or cakes can say yes yes yes to it but in business the manufacturers are going to use cheaper oils most likely higher in omega 6. Which is not good for you. In the China Study by Professor Campbell and he was raised on a farm around livestock. Dr Caldwell Esselstyn too. They both were born around pretty much the same time. Challenged the food pyramid we are advised to go by. So your argument on being advised by a qualified nutritionist falls a little short according to them. As they have published many scientific publications on nutrition and health. Dr Esselstyn has more than 150 publications. Is the author of prevent and reverse heart disease, the revolutionary , scientifically nutrition based cure. 20 years ago when I first came across them both the studies were here and there. Now they are published they are pretty much self evident. But don't take my word for it do your own search. That applies on your search for truth too. When president Clinton was in power they tried to push for the food pyramid to be changed as they were challenging the information the standard but they were ignored, and as they said recently they felt the full force from the Dairy and Meat industry over the years. I do feel they genuinely care for people's health. They don't want people to die and sages who do care for people want them to die in a different way. And they have also pointed out time and time again how doctors when they are taught medicine do little if any research into nutrition and food. Maybe two or three hours throughout their PhD. You will find vegans know more on nutrition than you average doctor. With Dr Michael Greger he will do the real science. Swap groups over, add placebo effects, to see how sound his advice may be on if a patient adds this plant or that fruit in to their diet. And he allows the science to see if it's true or not. And he makes sure he's out of the way. Being out of the way. It's a good trait. Here is a recent video The first thing I noticed was the product placement on the lecturn... so we'll see.
Then the add from 'Power Organics' (which seems to be a supplement brand). I googled their Brand, and they fail to specify the nutrient profile. They mark protein (amino acids) in a vague graph which makes no sense because the sum of the 'percentage of weight' greatly exceeds 100%, which is nonsense. They say it's a "SUPERFOOD" (yes, in capitals) which is a completely meaningless catch phrase. I'm pretty sure that supplement is a complete waste of money (and it ain't cheap). I am now skeptical of the ethical standards of the hosts, so I will also google them.
The Hippocrates Health Institute seems to be built of the anecdotal experiences of one guy, Brian Clement, who frankly, has been saying some outrageous things about nutrition. He also sells supplements at high prices and doesn't list the nutrient profile. I found the nutrient profile for one of the 'lifegive' supplements he sell for 70 bucks, which contains 2 doses (35 bucks a dose!) and all it is an overdose of vit A more than (4 times the daily requirement) and extreme underdoses of other nutrients. The claim is, this will harmonise the hormone balance and is "helpful for building muscle and gaining strength". Total Nonsense, and Brian knows it. This is an indicator that the "Hippocrates Health Institute" is not founded in high ethical standing.
Ok so lets see what the panelists have to say.
The panelists seem sensible and worth listening to, but I only watched 90 minutes.
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Fasting
Oct 8, 2018 15:01:51 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Oct 8, 2018 15:01:51 GMT -5
Lolly I can see the marketing. Those products are probably paid sponsors of the event. It needed a spread along the back spiritual teachers board dot com.
To be fair, as it's always good to look at critics as well you may look in to The China Study which was published in 2004 it's also worth looking at the critics too. Like the blogger Denise Minger she's does a critique on some of the food studies and claims out there being a former raw vegan advocate. Not something I would try but she adds in some interesting stuff to chew on. I'm sure Doctor Campbell has come back to her on her doubts but all the same she does raise some interesting points. Some of the publications she cites. It would be interesting to see how well the doctors who published them faired in their own health. As those words came up as I read through her blog. As you know from body building and you may have come across your fair share of quackery and misinformation on how to gain mass. The same applies to all fields in life including the spiritual teachings too. In fact cooking the words when stillness is the way leads to much misinformation in the marketplace of life. Marketing This over has its place and will attract its fair share of lovers and critics. Not many grasp an empty stall. But the stillness and silence within. There's no question it's beyond the marketplace yet the marketplace is still being That in all things. Speak to you later thanks for sharing.
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Post by lolly on Oct 9, 2018 6:45:27 GMT -5
Lolly I can see the marketing. Those products are probably paid sponsors of the event. It needed a spread along the back spiritual teachers board dot com. To be fair, as it's always good to look at critics as well you may look in to The China Study which was published in 2004 it's also worth looking at the critics too. Like the blogger Denise Minger she's does a critique on some of the food studies and claims out there being a former raw vegan advocate. Not something I would try but she adds in some interesting stuff to chew on. I'm sure Doctor Campbell has come back to her on her doubts but all the same she does raise some interesting points. Some of the publications she cites. It would be interesting to see how well the doctors who published them faired in their own health. As those words came up as I read through her blog. As you know from body building and you may have come across your fair share of quackery and misinformation on how to gain mass. The same applies to all fields in life including the spiritual teachings too. In fact cooking the words when stillness is the way leads to much misinformation in the marketplace of life. Marketing This over has its place and will attract its fair share of lovers and critics. Not many grasp an empty stall. But the stillness and silence within. There's no question it's beyond the marketplace yet the marketplace is still being That in all things. Speak to you later thanks for sharing. It's sad but true that the fitness industry is rife with misinformation, gimics and scams. Sad because this undermines the integrity of the industry such that the social discourse of the industrial body isn't trust worthy, and therefore, not taken seriously enough to impact on the cultural norms that lead to trends of increasing obesity rates, and decreasing fitness rates, and all the morbidity, mortality and poor quality of life that entails.
I'll watch some Denise Minger on YouTube (funny because 'minge' means pvssy here in Australia).
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Fasting
Oct 15, 2018 16:29:48 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Oct 15, 2018 16:29:48 GMT -5
It's really difficult to reply in this small box from a phone Beautiful, you applied this method to yourself. It worked. You added a little meat đ and it worked against you. I tend to eat more from a plant based diet. Unless I meet a someone and they have made a meal from meat. I do eat what's given what is shared over. I always get asked you love plant based food, love the rise of vegan businesses but you work for people in the leather industry. I always tell them it will shift in the future, leather made from Apple peels, grapes will make there way in. And they already are. Its more about the people there I love business for one, and they're good at it but there are two people there who ready to fall awake. One already has. I love the team how they can swear at a customer over the phone and in the same hour go out as they also run a food bank and deliver food. And how they entertain their staff and clients over a meal but they used to eat a lot of meat. As in their culture the women don't work so they tend to cook all day and you can imagine the rich, love filled meat dishes they would come home to. Eating for a good few hours after being business warriors in the day. Coming home after conquering, taking the spoils of war. But being there I've been able to share over a few tips when they have had health scares. One was suffering from gout the other week. Told to him to đ eat cherries. High blood pressure have a watermelon đ. So slowly they have been switching educating themselves on eating a more plant based diet. Even one of their friends came over who is second largest ice cream producer. He does well in business but has a few health issues so they've been explaining their shift in diet. And at the table I heard the one son ask him why don't you do vegan ice cream. I have a feeling he will in the future. Some goods books apart from the China Study but the China Study is an important read not just in health but the business behind what you read on health, who funds the research and who it really serves. How Not To Die. Dr Michael Greger Bird Flu Dr Michael Greger. ( you can read this online ) , you may want to post it on here for others to read and share if you feel it resonates with you that is. The Spectrum Diet Dr Dean Ornish There are hundreds of books and videos relating to a more plant based diet. It would need a new thread to share it over. See you later I'm off to work. Hey bluey. . Thanks. After posting I realized I left out the most important part, meant to edit but never did, the reason for the China study diet. Study came from rural China. Those who ate this diet had virtually zero heart disease, virtually zero high blood pressure, virtually zero diabetes, (and I believe virtually zero strokes, but I'd have to go back and check that [book not handy]). And when eating meat began to creep in, all these diseases began to show up. Always look at both sides of any information, arguement and see for yourself. It's a marketplace every one is selling you something. Some exaggerate more than others. But the marketplace is a good place. You can find your true nature amongst the sellers. Here im selling you something. See if it's true in your own experience or walk past the stall, go beyond, beyond, With Professor Colin Campbell he was originally in the Philippines trying to give more protein to malnourished children and to keep costs down he was offering more plant based protein to them. But he stumbled upon the high rates of cancer in more affluent families, in their children and how animal protein was very good at turning on cancer. This went against his beliefs and studies as he felt high protein was a cancer cure, from him being raised on a farm and the pyramid food table given taught to all in the medical profession. Why he found as he dug deeper that at the top there was little care for real health but their own wealth. Dr Esselstyn who was born around the same time was finding the same by looking at dietary habits during the war. Where in Norway the Nazis had taken the livestock and dairy for their troops. I do feel after looking at critics on his findings that people smuggled in fish had a more Mediterranean diet. They ate let less animal fat, cheese milk cream so their rates of diseases around animal food plummeted. They lived longer. After the war they went back to their rich diets and the problems came in. Which led him to China where In the early 1970's the first premier of the People's Republic of China, Zhou EnLai, was dying of cancer. He helped initiate The China Health and Nutrition Survey, the largest survey ever completed to date. The atlas of cancer is fascinating if you look at it. So Dr Campbell jumped on board. They came to find how nutrition was linked to poor health. Me personally as a child I remember being with my cousins and we were visiting a relative. I could feel the lack of love in the house. I couldn't eat the food even though it was fully vegetarian. I kept on saying to my cousins she didn't cook this with love I'm going to be sick tomorrow. And they laughed. But I was sick the next day. Going back I do feel Dr Esselstyn, Dr Campbell are pointing at the need to look at foods that are right for your body. Dr Michael Greger in the book bird Flu He writes and do your own critique on it. It's a marketplace out there you have to find what's right for you. Your body knows best. Humanityâs biblical âdominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of heaven; and every living thing that moved upon the earthâ has unleashed a veritable Pandoraâs ark full of humankindâs greatest killers.741 Some diseases such as herpes and shingles seem to have always been with us, passed down the evolutionary chain. But most modern human infectious diseases were unknown to our hunter and gatherer ancestors.742 Early humans may have suffered sporadic cases of animal-borne diseases such as anthrax from wild sheep or tularemia (ârabbit skinnerâs diseaseâ) from wild rabbits,743 but the domestication of animals triggered what the director of Harvardâs Center for Health and the Global Environment called the mass âspilloverâ of animal disease into human populations.744 Archeological evidence suggests that small, nomadic groups hardly suffered from contagious disease. With the advent of agriculture, though, communities settled and grew in relatively fixed locations, increasing their close exposure to their own waste and reservoirs of disease. Populations that domesticated only plants became more exposed to the few diseases they already harbored, but it was the domestication of animals that brought people in contact with a whole new array of pathogenic germs.745 Epidemic diseases tend to be harbored only by those animal species that herd or flock together in large numbers. This concentration allows for the evolution and maintenance of contagious pathogens capable of rapidly spreading through entire populations. Unfortunately, this same qualityâthe herd instinctâis what makes these animals particularly desirable for domestication. Domestication brought these animals once appreciated mainly from afar (along with their diseases) into close proximity and density with human settlements. As a zoonoses research team concluded, âThe spread of microbes from animals to humans was then inevitable.â746 Tuberculosis, âthe captain of all these men of death,â747 is thought to have been acquired through the domestication of goats.748 In the 20th century, tuberculosis (TB) killed approximately 100 million people.749 Today, tuberculosis kills more people than ever beforeâmillions every year.750 The World Health Organization declared tuberculosis a global health emergency in 1993 and estimates that between 2000 and 2020, nearly one billion people may be newly infected. What started out in goats now infects one-third of humanity.751 Domesticated goats seemed to have beaten domesticated cattle to the punch. Between 1850 and 1950, bovine tuberculosis, acquired mostly by children drinking unpasteurized milk, was responsible for more than 800,000 human deaths in Great Britain alone.752 Interestingly, it can go both ways. The British Journal of Biomedical Science recounts that dozens of cases of bovine TB were traced back to a âcurious farm-worker practice of urinating on the hay, perhaps on the folklore premise that the salts in urine are beneficial to the cattle.â Of course when it turns out the workers have genitourinary tuberculosis infections, itâs not so beneficial.753 Bovine tuberculosis continues to infect milk-drinking children to this day. In a study published in the American Academy of Pediatrics journal in 2000, doctors tested children with tuberculosis in San Diego and found that one-third of the tuberculosis wasnât human. One in three of the children was actually suffering from tuberculosis caught not from someone coughing on them, but, the researchers suspect, from drinking inadequately pasteurized milk from an infected cow. The investigators conclude, âThese data demonstrate the dramatic impact of this underappreciated cause of zoonotic TB on U.S. children.â754 Measles is thought to have come from domesticated cows, a mutant of the bovine rinderpest virus. The measles virus has so successfully adapted to humans that cattle canât get measles and we canât get rinderpest. Only with the prolonged intimate contact of domestication was the rinderpest virus able to mutate enough to make the jump.755 Though now considered a relatively benign disease, in roughly the last 150 years, measles has been estimated to have killed about 200 million people worldwide.756 These deaths can be traced to the taming of the first cattle a few hundred generations ago.757 Smallpox also may have been caused by a mutant cattle virus.758 We domesticated pigs and got whooping cough, domesticated chickens and got typhoid fever, and domesticated ducks and got influenza.759 The list goes on.760 Leprosy came from water buffalo,761 the cold virus from cattle762 or horses.763 How often did wild horses have opportunity to sneeze into humanityâs face until they were broken and bridled? Before then, the common cold was presumably common only to them. New zoonotic infections from domesticated farm animals continue to be discovered. The 2005 Nobel Prize in Medicine was awarded to the scientists who discovered in 1982 that bacteria living in the human stomach, which they called Helicobacter pylori, caused stomach cancer and the vast majority of peptic ulcers worldwide.764 Roughly half of the worldâs population is now infected.765 This ulcer-causing bacteria is thought to have originated in sheepâs milk, but is now spread person to person via oral secretionsâsaliva or vomitâor perhaps, like cholera, the fecal-oral route due to poor hand washing following defecation. What has become probably the most common chronic infection afflicting humanity,766 according to the CDC, came about because humanity started to drink the milk of another species thousands of years ago.767 A recent addition to the list of infectious farm animal bacteria is a cousin of H. pylori, known as Helicobacter pullorum (from the Latin pullus for âchickenâ),768 infecting a large proportion of chicken meat. H. pullorum is thought to cause a diarrheal illness in people who contract it through the consumption of improperly cooked chicken fecal matter.769 Yet another newly described fecal pathogen, hepatitis E, is one of the latest additions to the family of hepatitis viruses. It can cause fulminating liver infection in pregnant women, especially during the third trimester, with a mortality rate of up to 20%. Scientists began to suspect that this virus was zoonotic when they found it rampant in North America commercial pork operations.770 Direct evidence of cross-species transmission was obtained in 2003.771 Unlike a disease like trichinosis, which humans only get by eating improperly cooked pork, once a disease like hepatitis E crosses the species line, it can then be spread person to person. Between 1-2% of blood donors in the United States have been found to have been exposed to this virus.772 There's a beautiful book I don't know if you've read it or not. Guns Germs and Steel by Professor Jared Diamond. It won the Pulitzer Prize. How the First Nations and aboriginals were exposed to diseases from the invading peoples. The blankets with the animal diseases they were given to First Nation people and simple common cold wiped out tribes and millions of people who were close to nature. On the marketplace when I first fell awake. After David I visited Barry Long. It was after a seminar of his. I could see the showman in him. But one woman said I've been hurt in life. I saw the showmanship step down and his voice was pure love. Saying see me after the show. I could see the beauty of That he was pointing at. But also where the teacher could see how real her question was. Why I feel it's important to be around teachers. How they sell This over in the marketplace. So you can enjoy the play and stillness at the same time. As ian Wolstenholme says to stay in one domain of experiencing to say one is higher than another is to miss. The teacher and teaching will be lopsided.
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Fasting
Nov 2, 2018 12:07:11 GMT -5
Post by bluey on Nov 2, 2018 12:07:11 GMT -5
Okay I've just found out Tess Hughes is associated with Richard Rose. And Art Ticknor.
As this is the fasting thread I just saw the name Tess Hughes and this was on her site the part on taking a media fast, is a fascinating and important read in this digital age. We've been focusing mainly on food but read on. You can find this on Tess Hughes site.
What follows is a letter Art Ticknor sent to participants for an upcoming retreat; guidelines to prepare themselves to get most benefit from the intensive period of self inquiry.
Fasting, and not just food fasting, is a means of generating mental clarity, which facilitates deep inquiry and examination into oneself.
Iâd encourage you to read or review Blindsight & Group Efforts to help get you thinking about the retreat.
In peopleâs initial preparation plans for a retreat last year, no one mentioned fasting as a possible form of preparation. Hereâs what I replied (you may remember đ in my feedback then concerning the vast potential payoff in terms of clarity:
Usually we associate the term with not eating, and that is one aspect of fasting that I personally found beyond value. You may have heard me describe how one time when I started a solitary retreat my state of mind in the previous months had been a blah ânothing much is possible.â When I started the retreat that November in a remote cabin on the Richard Rose farm, it was cold, rainy, and muddy; the leaves were off the trees; the cabin had no electricity, no plumbing; the source of heat was a tiny wood stove, and the only firewood was downed branches, which were wet and rotting. I began the retreat with 3 days of water-only fasting. I felt lousy, physically and mentally. On the third morning of the retreat, I walked outside and wham: Everything, including the leafless trees and the gray skies and the muddy ground were beautiful; and anything was possible! My conviction state had swung 180 degrees. After the retreat I mentioned that to Mr. Rose, and he told me thatâs the value of fasting: it shocks the body and kicks in a different state of mind.
There are many, many other forms of fasting as well. From what? Habits, for example (âsettled or regular tendencies or practices, esp. ones that are hard to give upâ). In addition to food, the other great instinctive drive is sex. We may never get a clue about how much influence the sex drive has in our life unless we experiment with periods of fasting from intentional sex-action. Other habits that are âhard to give upâ? If we take a look at our habit patterns, we may see habits that we tell ourselves wouldnât be hard to give up ⌠but are we kidding ourselves? Alcohol and recreational drug use may be harmless, but what would we find if we took a vacation from them? Nicotine? Supposedly one of lifeâs most addictive substances. If cold-turkey withdrawal doesnât work with your psychology, perhaps a period of tapering usage (e.g., decreasing a bit more each day) might be effective. Coffee? (Now weâre getting too close to home đ
One of the strongest habits many of us have is using media to fill hours of our waking experience. For a real challenge, try a media fast for a period before the retreat ⌠no books, newspapers, magazines, radio, TV, movies, Internet(!), Facebook(!), etc., that arenât necessary for school or work. If that seems too heroic, pick one or two of your highest time-wasters to take a rest from. Phone calls? How much time do you spend in needless conversations? Texting? Ditto. If you put your mind to it, Iâm sure you can zero in on habits the use your lifeâs time and energy, which you could experiment with taking a pause from.
Other than addictive habits, there may be indulgences (âgiving free rein toâ; âfreeing from temporal punishment for sinâ đ that would be interesting to abstain from. Retail therapy? Starbucks mochas, lattes and frappes? Fast food treats?
The idea isnât to remove all pleasures from your life ⌠but to encourage you to find opportunities to shake things up a bit. If you get any later inspirations youâd like to pursue, please feel free to send updates to your preparation plans.
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Fasting
Nov 16, 2018 21:29:40 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Nov 16, 2018 21:29:40 GMT -5
Stem cells? I didn't know that. Interesting. $1.99/day.
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Fasting
Nov 16, 2018 23:54:38 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Nov 16, 2018 23:54:38 GMT -5
I'll watch the vid later. It loos interesting. I think people can take on too much at a time, bite off more than they can chew, and it is too chaotic to deal with the whole gamut in one go, so I like to look over the entire person, physical/psychological and spiritual, and then address the lifestyle in manageable steps. The physical, being the 'gateway', is the first step, so I wouldn't address the emotional dimensions directly, but 'go through the body' to get there, so to speak. In the diet context, where 'diet' simply means the food one consumes, it's all math. What do you weigh, what is the fat percentage, what are their physical activity levels, how many calories are needed to lose or gain weight, whats the optimal nutrient distribution, what activity best signals the preservation or increase of muscle mass, and how to implement that in a way that affects change in a person's lifestyleThe notion of lifestyle is important because sustainability is 'a way of life'. A change in lifestyle at the physical level will reveal the emotional aspects of the situation, and when a person is already proactively addressing their physical condition, and have already affected noticeable change in body composition, that helps them to have some level of confidence to overcome their emotional hurdles. The nutritional guidelines are essentially useless in that they are hegemonic and designed for people who don't anything about nutrition. It's not something that dietitians actually follow. Dietitians count calorie intake and advise on nutrient distribution on an individual basis, and anyone who advises not consulting a dietitian is giving terrible advice. It's true that medical doctors have poor nutritional knowledge and knowledge about exercise, which is pretty strange for what is called a 'health professional'. That shows how perverse the system is and perhaps explains why health systems are overwhelmed by entirely preventable illnesses. I'm sure Greger is good at what he does, and I'm sure in his vegan advocacy he stresses to importance of supplementation. Of course nutrient distribution include plant foods and whole foods as critically important, and if a person adheres to a vegan lifestyle, then certain supplements are necessary. The issue with veganism is that it is an ethical issue, so people including Greger are biased, righteously. This limits his clientele to vegans as people who consume animal products already know he's only going to advise veganism. That's not the way to 'do good', and purely nutritionally speaking, animal products are necessary for a complete real food nutritional profile. This is a huge 'inconvenient truth' for the vegan argument because actually, the vegan diet is sub-optimal nutritionally speaking as it cannot provide a complete nutrient profile. There are very good ethical reasons to be vegan, though, and supplementation resolves any nutrient deficiency. There is only one supplement needed if one eats no meat. The only natural place to get vitamin B12 is from meat. This is an absolutely necessary vitamin. So if you eat no meat you absolutely must take vitamin B12. All other nutrients can be obtained by eating a plant based diet. The main purpose of meat is to get the necessary protein. There are 20 amino acids which constitute protein. A portion of meat about the size of one palm is what's necessary for the daily intake of protein, about 60 grams minimum. All the 20 amino acids can be obtained by combining plants, this throughout the meals of one day. Example, cows are very healthy without eating meat. What you say is just not accurate. (BTW, for the record, carbohydrates are also essentially unnecessary for good nutrition). Quote your source and I'll quote mine. I'm not quoting sources but I encourage people to read critically and double check what I say. Although B12 is only found in animal products in sufficient quantities (unless you eat lots of dirt and/or dirty water), vegans often have other nutrient deficiencies which are regularly obtained from animal products. But if a vegan has a very well rounded whole food diet, their nutrient profile will be sufficient, and far more complete than the sub-par "typical Western Diet". B12 supplementation is necessary, but will only be effective along with a complete nutritious diet. Protein of 60g a day is minimalist, but wouldn't be regarded as malnourishent, however, it is highly questionable if it is optimal, and is it even possible to ingest that small amount if one ingests sufficient calories to meet an active lifestyle for their individual body weight? 60g would be insufficient for large males and athletes and/or workers that require a lot of muscle. It is also important to injest the complete profile of essential amino acids, but that is relatively easy on a vegan diet by consuming a variety of protein containing plant foods . Humans cannot survive on a cow's diet, so the comparison is utterly meaningless. Chimps and bonobos are our closest relation and are technically classified as omnivores. Carbs are not an essential nutrient, but it is impossible to have a well rounded diet which is carb free. Especially for vegans considering higher protein plant foods (including legumes and nuts) tend to have significant carb content.
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