|
Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 3:52:06 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Jul 25, 2018 3:52:06 GMT -5
There are other things to consider as well, such as muscle tissue loss while in a caloric deficit or due to inadequate protein intake. This is where exercise, specifically resistance training, enters the weight loss equation. The popular fitness rhetoric (which I call 'fitness nonsense') promotes 'calorie burning' as a weightloss strategy, but this is a shallow perspective to the degree of being misguided. Weight loss necessitates a calorie deficit, so the body burns its own tissue for energy. If the body goes into 'starvation mode' it knows it has to retain the fat as best it can so it tends toward metabolising muscle tissue (particularly if protien intake is deficient.
Of course a person doesn't want to lose weight per-se; they want to lose fat. This really means they would like to reduce percentage of fat that makes up their body weight, so indeed, a person (untrained individuals especially) can remain the same weight while increasing their muscle mass, and reducing fat percentage. 'They' say fasting is good for the obese, and indeed losing fat by any means is beneficial for such individuals, but I question, is it optimal or does it present compound risks in the longer term? One of the big problems with 'weight loss fads' is the person loses muscle mass, and muscle is what 'does work'. Less muscle is diminishing the ability to 'do work', which means reduced life abilities. This is why a fast might, and probably is, beneficial in the immediate term, but it is not a sustainable endeavour, and at some stage a person has to resume eating. It is therefore shortsighted to the point of detriment to simply say 'fasting is great for obesity'. A fat person might fast, lose 40 pounds in 40 days, and then resume their pizza and cola lifestyle, in which case they will worse off than they were prior to commencing the fast due to reduced muscle mass. The key is not a 'fix'. It is a transformation of lifestyle; a shift in the persona so they become the 'kind of person' who is healthy and active. If the 'kind of person' who is about beer and pizza goes on a diet or a fast, it does no good and it can create more harm than good in the long run. The evidence presented about fasting is doubtlessly valid, but data are collected in the short term. I have seen no follow up literature say 5 years down the track, but I can extrapolate from data on dieting that over 90% of individuals will revert to their old ways - and state of health - and often worse. That said, dealing with the well-being of physical form realistically requires a psychological transformation - a whole personality change - so individuals become the 'kind of person' whose 'natural environment' does not include the McDonald's drive through window.
In conclusion, calories are not managed by 'burning calories'. They are managed by nutrition intake. Exercise should be resistance training to signal the body that it needs the muscle, so it tends toward burning fat rather than muscle tissue. Calorie deficits, especially prolonged fasting are not sustainable, so these can not represent 'lifestyles'. dA lifestyle is the expression of the 'kind of person' you are. Rectifying health conditions does not come down to a 'fix'. It comes down to a lifestyle, and a 'healthy lifestyle' and positive changes in this regard depend on personality transformation. Hence, a 'whole person' approach is realistic.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 20:43:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 25, 2018 20:43:44 GMT -5
Max, the best book I found on reducing blood sugar levels is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, The Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars by Richard K Bernstein. In 1946 at age 12 Berstein was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. In 1969 he started experimenting on himself checking his blood sugar levels 5-8 times a day. From this he was able to begin controling his blood sugar levels. By 1973 he tried to share what he had learned with others but nobody would listen to because of lack of credentials. So at age 45 he entered medical school and became a doctor. From different sources I also tried over a dozen supplements to help reduce blood sugar levels. The only one I found to really help is berberine. Get it, try it. Based on my research and experience so far the only thing that is required for a complete recovery or rejuvenation in general is prolonged periods of deep relaxation. And that's how I have seen fasting described at times, it allows the body to rest. And if we look at diseases (dis-ease) in that way, healing isn't exactly rocket science. It may play out in a million different ways on an individual level, but the principles behind it are always the same. I was addressing max who was/is interested in reducing blood sugar levels. He is on the right track (reducing refined carbs). Relaxing is exceptionally important for health, I would say especially for reducing high blood pressure (hypertension). But through eating too much sugar, or foods that turn quickly to glucose (blood sugar) you ~wear out~ the pancreas, the ability to make insulin. This begins as insulin resistance. When this happens high levels of sugar constantly stay in the blood. A vicious cycle is started and continues. With excess sugar in the blood the body says: make and release insulin. But insulin resistance occurs, the blood is not cleared of excess sugar. The beginning of this is called prediabetes. If this is not solved one develops type 2 diabetes, and has to take prescription medication of some type to clear the blood of excess sugar. The whole point here is relaxation alone is not enough, one has to begin a diet that creates less blood sugar. Dr Berstein's goal for himself (again, he has type 1 diabetes) is to get his blood sugar to 83, three hours after eating. He tells how to do this in the book. Basically, no bread, no crackers, no white rice, no potatoes, zero refined sugar, no fruit juices, very little fruit, especially zero dried fruit. No processed food (basically anything packaged). Little restaurant food, no fast food. More nos, those are off the top of my head, the most important. Again, relaxation alone will not get your sugar down.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 25, 2018 20:44:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jul 25, 2018 20:44:35 GMT -5
Very good info lolly.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 3:26:17 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2018 3:26:17 GMT -5
(natural past) Climate change could have easily partly inspired the Garden of Eden story. What I find interesting (and sorta understandable) is that generally countries around or close the the tropics are the most blessed in terms of natural foods available but on the other hand are also the least developed in terms of culture, science and technology. It's kinda' common sense that if you don't need to fight your environment for food, clothing and shelter then you don't have to bother with invention. They used to teach it in schools even but my guess is nowday's that's not fashionable.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 3:29:11 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2018 3:29:11 GMT -5
Yeah, it goes with the territory of deep unconsciousness. Tends to manifest as ingratitude. All it takes is a little imagination to understand what we've gained by the advent of technology, cultural progression, and population growth. As well as what we've lost. Yes, no need to rage against the machines or technology. But there is a certain imbalance in the way it has played out so far. And about population growth or so-called 'overpopulation' - if you do the math, the earth is basically empty and almost uninhabited. What makes it seem otherwise are those rather severe imbalances in terms of distribution. Once you let this guy get goin' he's entirely adorable. There's some of his premises I see potential flaws in but his overall logic in terms of where it's going that seems to make sense to me.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 3:34:47 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Jul 26, 2018 3:34:47 GMT -5
Have you read enough to know whether or not she ever had an unlikely encounter with the Tao? No. Never read any of her works. Her names sometimes shows up in the context of natural medicine/remedies. Her apparent focus on balance and her recognition of the dualistic polarities suggests that if she wasn't exposed to the Tao then she sort of reinvented parts of it herself, which I wouldn't find all that surprising.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 7:59:17 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 26, 2018 7:59:17 GMT -5
The way I think about diet is using a triangle diagram. Tier 1:On the bottom or the foundation, there are calories. The body needs energy to run, so the energy quota is foundational.
Tier 2: The next tier is the macronutrients: fat, protein and carbs, which contain practically all the calories. The proper distribution of these macronutrients is important to ensure adequate protein, but relative carbohydrate and fat distribution is very flexible.
Tier 3: The tier above that is micronutrients: vitamins and minerals.
Tier 4: The tier above that is meal frequency. What time meals are taken and how the nutrients are included in those meals. The 'meal frequency' tier is where fasting can be incorporated.
Tier 5: At the top of the triangle is dietry supplements. In this structured system of diet organisation there is no point addressing any tier unless the previous tier has been addressed. For example, you can't work out one's macronutrient quantities unless the calorie requirement has first been established, and there's no point addressing micronutrient amounts unless the macro distribution is sorted out. Then there is no use planning meal frequency (and nutrient distribution across said meals) unless all the necessary calories and nutrients are known prior, and nutrient supplimentation can only be considered in view of shortfalls in everything else. In this view, fasting wouldn't be a high priority. It would be considered under 'meal frequency', which is second to last in priority. Hence I would not suggest fasting unless and/or until a proper nutrient profile has been pre-established. It would be optimal for most people to first ensure their body is well nourished before commencing any sort of prolonged fast. On the other hand, intermittent fasting (say, having a 6 hour feeding window each day) could be implemented immediately (health conditions permitting). Basically, I think a 'pre-fast-prep' diet would be the go.
A longer fast is usually only recommended once or twice a year. I haven't seen fasting recommended as a life style. Although, there are certain people who actually live without food and even without water. It's been well documented. And that's something your mechanical model can't explain. In order to explain this, you have to use the metaphysical model which requires a whole different approach not only to your body, but to life in general. There's a lot more to the story than just calories and supplements. U.G. used to say that the body could live on sawdust and glue. That may sound preposterous to the mechanically minded folks, but it does make sense to the more metaphysically minded folks. I like the A-H perspective on food. They basically say that in a state of alignment, it doesn't really matter what you eat or even if you eat at all. The body is a veritable chemical factory that can produce everything it needs on its own and it can also digest and make use of whatever you eat or drink. However, the body's efficiency in that regard depends on your state of being which is indicated by your state of mind and mood. Which means if you are predominantly out of alignment, your body can't really utilize food efficiently. And so even if you eat the healthiest foods, you will still get sick. On the other hand, if you are predominantly in alignment, then your body can utilize food efficiently. And so even if you would live on fast food alone, you won't get sick. Seth even goes so far to say that what we see as poisons can't really harm you either. He says that all chemicals are from the earth. And the body is equipped to deal with that. So, there are basically 2 different ways of approaching this topic diet and also health: 1) what you are suggesting, i.e. figure out what you need according to the latest research, then work out a plan and then make an effort to strictly adhere to it or 2) what I am suggesting, i.e. make an effort to get in alignment and then do whatever you feel like doing.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 8:18:23 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 26, 2018 8:18:23 GMT -5
The key is not a 'fix'. It is a transformation of lifestyle; a shift in the persona so they become the 'kind of person' who is healthy and active. If the 'kind of person' who is about beer and pizza goes on a diet or a fast, it does no good and it can create more harm than good in the long run. The evidence presented about fasting is doubtlessly valid, but data are collected in the short term. I have seen no follow up literature say 5 years down the track, but I can extrapolate from data on dieting that over 90% of individuals will revert to their old ways - and state of health - and often worse. That said, dealing with the well-being of physical form realistically requires a psychological transformation - a whole personality change - so individuals become the 'kind of person' whose 'natural environment' does not include the McDonald's drive through window.
In conclusion, calories are not managed by 'burning calories'. They are managed by nutrition intake. Exercise should be resistance training to signal the body that it needs the muscle, so it tends toward burning fat rather than muscle tissue. Calorie deficits, especially prolonged fasting are not sustainable, so these can not represent 'lifestyles'. dA lifestyle is the expression of the 'kind of person' you are. Rectifying health conditions does not come down to a 'fix'. It comes down to a lifestyle, and a 'healthy lifestyle' and positive changes in this regard depend on personality transformation. Hence, a 'whole person' approach is realistic. I agree. That's why fasting isn't a solution. It may be a highly efficient temporary fix though. But if your mindset doesn't change, then you are back to square one again at some point down the road. The condition of the body is just a reflection of the condition of the mind. In that sense, the body doesn't lie. That's something a lot of spiritual teachers are not aware of. There have been a lot of self-realized masters whose bodies were really in bad shape, many of them even suffering from a so-called 'terminal' illness. They seem to think they've realized Self and now they are done. In a sense that's right, but they forget about the alignment factor. That is never done. There may be an accumulate effect in the long run, but basically you start anew every single day because alignment is a moment to moment thing. So, enlightened master in a sick body, that's possible, but there's definitely something out of balance that should be addressed.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 8:42:43 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 26, 2018 8:42:43 GMT -5
Based on my research and experience so far the only thing that is required for a complete recovery or rejuvenation in general is prolonged periods of deep relaxation. And that's how I have seen fasting described at times, it allows the body to rest. And if we look at diseases (dis-ease) in that way, healing isn't exactly rocket science. It may play out in a million different ways on an individual level, but the principles behind it are always the same. I was addressing max who was/is interested in reducing blood sugar levels. He is on the right track (reducing refined carbs). Relaxing is exceptionally important for health, I would say especially for reducing high blood pressure (hypertension). But through eating too much sugar, or foods that turn quickly to glucose (blood sugar) you ~wear out~ the pancreas, the ability to make insulin. This begins as insulin resistance. When this happens high levels of sugar constantly stay in the blood. A vicious cycle is started and continues. With excess sugar in the blood the body says: make and release insulin. But insulin resistance occurs, the blood is not cleared of excess sugar. The beginning of this is called prediabetes. If this is not solved one develops type 2 diabetes, and has to take prescription medication of some type to clear the blood of excess sugar. The whole point here is relaxation alone is not enough, one has to begin a diet that creates less blood sugar. Dr Berstein's goal for himself (again, he has type 1 diabetes) is to get his blood sugar to 83, three hours after eating. He tells how to do this in the book. Basically, no bread, no crackers, no white rice, no potatoes, zero refined sugar, no fruit juices, very little fruit, especially zero dried fruit. No processed food (basically anything packaged). Little restaurant food, no fast food. More nos, those are off the top of my head, the most important. Again, relaxation alone will not get your sugar down. I didn't mean to imply that deep relaxation directly is going to fix your health issues or that you just should go meditate and stop taking your medicine or something like that. It works more indirectly. And in the same way that you didn't get into that mess overnight, you're probably not going to recover overnight either. You are where you are. It's vitally important to acknowledge that. And depending on where you are at the moment, different kinds of action will appeal to you more than others or will be more appropriate than others. There are no general doing suggestions that work for everyone. So in that sense, as it would be somewhat irresponsible to recommend not taking your medicine anymore, it would be equally irresponsible to recommend a specific drug or pill. What I basically mean when I talk about prolonged periods of deep relaxation is mostly related to the sympathetic/parasympathetic nervous system.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 12:38:09 GMT -5
If you're active, doing what you enjoy, your body adapts to the activity and so does your diet.
|
|
|
Post by zendancer on Jul 26, 2018 16:02:52 GMT -5
There's probably a better thread somewhere for posting this, but many people don't know about some of the more advanced lipid tests. The usual fasting lipid profile measures LDL's, VLDL's, HDL's,triglycerides, and total cholesterol, but people with high cholesterol would be advised to pay for some of the more advanced tests (which cost a lot more) because they measure molecule size. Apparently small molecule size LDL cholesterol (which is the "bad" stuff) is much worse than large molecule LDL's, and people with the small form molecules are at higher risk for cardiovascular problems because the small molecules burrow into arteries and form plaque more than the large molecules do. People at higher risk may also want to do a nuclear calcium scan to find out if they have calcium deposits in their arteries which may indicate plaque deposits.
FWIW, at age 40 I developed elevated total cholesterol and triglyceride levels despite exercising aerobically (I was a long-distance runner). For many years I followed the doctor- recommended low-fat diets without very good results. Then, I saw an article in the newspaper about a new calcium scan test, and the doctor who was using the test knew a lot more about lipid profiles that most other docs. He explained all of the other issues involved in the lipid profiles, ran the scan and the more advanced blood tests and determined that I had a particular blood profile that, genetically, isn't great. I took niaspan (a mega dose of vitamin B-3) for a few years (which changed all the numbers dramatically for the better), but then became allergic to it. I then switched to a low-dose statin. Later, after experimenting with a low-carb diet, I discovered that the biggest factors, for me, were reducing carbs, exercising, and taking the statin. Exercise raises HDL's and the low-carb diet and statin keeps the LDL's and triglycerides on the low end of the scale. By contrast, a friend of mine has the best kind of blood profile--big fluffy HDL's and lots of them. His total cholesterol stays high because his HDL's stay above 100, but for him that's great (most guys do well to stay above 50). These days i follow a Mediterranean diet and average 10,000 steps per day, and that keeps the old blood flowing along and looking pretty good. Bottom line? If your genetic inheritance isn't the best, you can improve your odds by educating yourself and becoming pro-active.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 26, 2018 20:50:01 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Jul 26, 2018 20:50:01 GMT -5
The way I think about diet is using a triangle diagram. Tier 1:On the bottom or the foundation, there are calories. The body needs energy to run, so the energy quota is foundational.
Tier 2: The next tier is the macronutrients: fat, protein and carbs, which contain practically all the calories. The proper distribution of these macronutrients is important to ensure adequate protein, but relative carbohydrate and fat distribution is very flexible.
Tier 3: The tier above that is micronutrients: vitamins and minerals.
Tier 4: The tier above that is meal frequency. What time meals are taken and how the nutrients are included in those meals. The 'meal frequency' tier is where fasting can be incorporated.
Tier 5: At the top of the triangle is dietry supplements. In this structured system of diet organisation there is no point addressing any tier unless the previous tier has been addressed. For example, you can't work out one's macronutrient quantities unless the calorie requirement has first been established, and there's no point addressing micronutrient amounts unless the macro distribution is sorted out. Then there is no use planning meal frequency (and nutrient distribution across said meals) unless all the necessary calories and nutrients are known prior, and nutrient supplimentation can only be considered in view of shortfalls in everything else. In this view, fasting wouldn't be a high priority. It would be considered under 'meal frequency', which is second to last in priority. Hence I would not suggest fasting unless and/or until a proper nutrient profile has been pre-established. It would be optimal for most people to first ensure their body is well nourished before commencing any sort of prolonged fast. On the other hand, intermittent fasting (say, having a 6 hour feeding window each day) could be implemented immediately (health conditions permitting). Basically, I think a 'pre-fast-prep' diet would be the go.
A longer fast is usually only recommended once or twice a year. I haven't seen fasting recommended as a life style. Although, there are certain people who actually live without food and even without water. It's been well documented. And that's something your mechanical model can't explain. In order to explain this, you have to use the metaphysical model which requires a whole different approach not only to your body, but to life in general. There's a lot more to the story than just calories and supplements. U.G. used to say that the body could live on sawdust and glue. That may sound preposterous to the mechanically minded folks, but it does make sense to the more metaphysically minded folks. I like the A-H perspective on food. They basically say that in a state of alignment, it doesn't really matter what you eat or even if you eat at all. The body is a veritable chemical factory that can produce everything it needs on its own and it can also digest and make use of whatever you eat or drink. However, the body's efficiency in that regard depends on your state of being which is indicated by your state of mind and mood. Which means if you are predominantly out of alignment, your body can't really utilize food efficiently. And so even if you eat the healthiest foods, you will still get sick. On the other hand, if you are predominantly in alignment, then your body can utilize food efficiently. And so even if you would live on fast food alone, you won't get sick. Seth even goes so far to say that what we see as poisons can't really harm you either. He says that all chemicals are from the earth. And the body is equipped to deal with that. So, there are basically 2 different ways of approaching this topic diet and also health: 1) what you are suggesting, i.e. figure out what you need according to the latest research, then work out a plan and then make an effort to strictly adhere to it or 2) what I am suggesting, i.e. make an effort to get in alignment and then do whatever you feel like doing. Well, UG is well known for saying outrageous things, and I imagine Hicks isn't a lot better when it comes to nutritional advice. I remember having a go at Enigma because he was promoting and selling that lemon and syrup 'cleansing' fad using 'spirituality' as a pseudo nutrition qualification. I have a very low opinion of spirituality being used as a qualification, which is why UG is a quack in this regard and AH is NOT a good source of nutritional information.
It is also preposterous to say the body can live on anything. For example feeding a hyperglycemic person a lot of sugar would be disasterous, as would feeding an obese person calorie dense foods, and there are so many examples which clearly show the fallacy. It's also ridiculous to use a rare instance of a spiritual person who claims not to eat. Firstly, there is no documentation of that because you can't ethically confine a person to controlled conditions for a long time. I have read about one or two examples of maybe 2 weeks in controlled settings - which is probably as long as any ethics board would permit. I believe that there are those who can go withut food, but just because I buy into the spiritual aspect of that. Secondly, the vast, vast majority of humans, animals and plants die of starvation if not fed.
What I provided was a system of organising a diet, but what I suggested was a 'whole person' approach that transforms the personality, the psychological profile, from behavious of sloth and indulgence to behaviours of vitality and balance. That is a neurological transformation involving entire body/brain rather that a trick of psychology. I guess that relates to alignment.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 27, 2018 8:28:26 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 27, 2018 8:28:26 GMT -5
What I find interesting (and sorta understandable) is that generally countries around or close the the tropics are the most blessed in terms of natural foods available but on the other hand are also the least developed in terms of culture, science and technology. It's kinda' common sense that if you don't need to fight your environment for food, clothing and shelter then you don't have to bother with invention. They used to teach it in schools even but my guess is nowday's that's not fashionable. I'd say it also has something to do with the combination of heat and high humidity. There's something called heat index. If that value is too high, it's just not conducive to mental clarity.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 27, 2018 8:52:40 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 27, 2018 8:52:40 GMT -5
Yes, no need to rage against the machines or technology. But there is a certain imbalance in the way it has played out so far. And about population growth or so-called 'overpopulation' - if you do the math, the earth is basically empty and almost uninhabited. What makes it seem otherwise are those rather severe imbalances in terms of distribution. Once you let this guy get goin' he's entirely adorable. There's some of his premises I see potential flaws in but his overall logic in terms of where it's going that seems to make sense to me. Right, the overpopulation myth seems to be mostly based on flawful logic and cherry picking of data.
|
|
|
Fasting
Jul 27, 2018 9:01:09 GMT -5
Post by Reefs on Jul 27, 2018 9:01:09 GMT -5
No. Never read any of her works. Her names sometimes shows up in the context of natural medicine/remedies. Her apparent focus on balance and her recognition of the dualistic polarities suggests that if she wasn't exposed to the Tao then she sort of reinvented parts of it herself, which I wouldn't find all that surprising. A very interesting women. She's obviously been very influential, was probably some kind of polymath and also a saint. Check out this link : catholicsaints.info/saint-hildegard-von-bingen/(she does look a bit like Niz!)
|
|