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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 19, 2018 15:12:04 GMT -5
All that it means to say that they are illusion is that what they are not what they were once thought to be. Hey you rolled a dice 🎲 before your turn. That's cheating. I've been on that square. It's a great pointer. Without mentioning Maya ( and maya has created a non duality section within it) Trikuti and par Brahm. Sohang or Satpurusha On this spiritual monopoly board I can see what you are pointing at but in both yours and gopals experience. Not the domain of the seer or the silence you carry back with you in to the marketplace. The domain of the body emotions in intimacy, relating with people, friends. How do you feel from what you are pointing at in the domain of the body and emotions experience. Bringing the seer and silence in everyday living. I ask, as does a sage who comes back down the mountain taking responsibility for his feelings does it take him out of the natural state, expanded space. Whatever you want to call it. The true I? I have found Being with western students in the here and now that the teachings having looked into their lives evolved more down the route of sorting something out before they can go to That place inside. And that matters to me🎲in this spiritual game. As the houses are now worth more on love street than I Am street. My preference would be to sit in silence with everyone. That's ok for me but not most seekers. Absolutely for seekers it is necessary to “sort stuff out” before they can go to that place inside. The idea of illusion is, as you point out, a pointer. It is necessary for the seeker, but the seeeker needs more than that to deal with their psychological baggage. They need various efforts in the world. But subjectively to the one who has “found,” the ideal switches, I think, to, basically, relaxing. Un-trying. The mind without distress or deliberate effort is calm, and the quiet mind is what is then best enabled to respond in the domain of the emotions, intimate relations, etc.
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 20, 2018 17:14:18 GMT -5
From the moderator perspective, answering or not answering anyone's questions, no matter how often they've been asked, isn't an issue. Dodging questions is fine. How you rationalize it is your problem. What is not okay though is turning it around on the one who asked the questions. It's basically just a debate tactic, a means to an end. But it usually creates a lot of collateral damage and derails discussions since the goal is to drag you off topic so that you will forget your questions, because you are busy defending yourself against bogus charges. That's why I am not going to tolerate it here anymore. So the best way to deal with this debate tactic as an ordinary member is to keep your eye on the ball, stay strictly on topic, ignore the personal attacks (and especially the moralizing) and call it out whenever you see it. Don't take the bait. Yes, there are some parents, who for example, can't stand their child's innocent perception - which makes them feel exposed/shamed - and whose purpose is to make the child doubt themselves (doubt their own perception) as a means of avoiding exposure. This doubt, if successfully injected in child's mind, can cause a split mind/personality. Instilling doubt and confusion is more than a debating tactic, it's a dirty trick that can fracture a personality permanently. Your advice is most sound, and maybe the best/only defense against it on a forum like this. edited: added in the last five words.
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Post by bluey on Oct 21, 2018 13:13:27 GMT -5
Hey you rolled a dice 🎲 before your turn. That's cheating. I've been on that square. It's a great pointer. Without mentioning Maya ( and maya has created a non duality section within it) Trikuti and par Brahm. Sohang or Satpurusha On this spiritual monopoly board I can see what you are pointing at but in both yours and gopals experience. Not the domain of the seer or the silence you carry back with you in to the marketplace. The domain of the body emotions in intimacy, relating with people, friends. How do you feel from what you are pointing at in the domain of the body and emotions experience. Bringing the seer and silence in everyday living. I ask, as does a sage who comes back down the mountain taking responsibility for his feelings does it take him out of the natural state, expanded space. Whatever you want to call it. The true I? I have found Being with western students in the here and now that the teachings having looked into their lives evolved more down the route of sorting something out before they can go to That place inside. And that matters to me🎲in this spiritual game. As the houses are now worth more on love street than I Am street. My preference would be to sit in silence with everyone. That's ok for me but not most seekers. Absolutely for seekers it is necessary to “sort stuff out” before they can go to that place inside. The idea of illusion is, as you point out, a pointer. It is necessary for the seeker, but the seeeker needs more than that to deal with their psychological baggage. They need various efforts in the world. But subjectively to the one who has “found,” the ideal switches, I think, to, basically, relaxing. Un-trying. The mind without distress or deliberate effort is calm, and the quiet mind is what is then best enabled to respond in the domain of the emotions, intimate relations, etc. Yes exactly good post. You used the word I think but from your own experience? And not just students but sages too. The more integrated they are in the domains of experiencing as the seer, the body, emotions the more of the silence is met when either teaching or making a cup of tea at work for a fellow worker. Or in any other areas of living. In my experience of meeting different teachers especially many who awaken and many who just come out and teach. Is that the integrating of This into the body and behavioural scripts that were problematic in the story for many are pretty much still there as they go out and teach. The food fights on here are a classic example. So would you say for the silence to be more met in another the integrating of This in to the domains of body and emotions are important before placing yourself in satsang. As you have to meet a student in their domain of experiencing too ? As I've seen great teachers have mother and fathers issues still playing in them. And presenting a teaching that is separate at the same time. And many not awakening as a result. One or two and then a scandal of some sort. In the story and the many scripts we all have as we are not just one person but many. I've seen sages say focus on the I Am. But for most now in the West this map like most books have on their shelf will just be put away in time. Great pointers for an eastern body but not a western body who is really carrying a lot of baggage. And will focus on the baggage as I Am at some point. A poster on here once posted is realisation just for the privileged who can afford to be around a teacher. If you apply on just focusing on the I am to all the masses then he has a point. Take Ramanas map it worked for the Eastern body mindset. Do you feel every domain of him was aligned with That. His love of a cow and when his mother arrived he used healing on her at her death. And said both the cow and his mother awakened to That. Was it possible for some behavioural cells to be still there throughout the pointing at That and focusing on the I Am to students?
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Oct 22, 2018 17:42:36 GMT -5
Absolutely for seekers it is necessary to “sort stuff out” before they can go to that place inside. The idea of illusion is, as you point out, a pointer. It is necessary for the seeker, but the seeeker needs more than that to deal with their psychological baggage. They need various efforts in the world. But subjectively to the one who has “found,” the ideal switches, I think, to, basically, relaxing. Un-trying. The mind without distress or deliberate effort is calm, and the quiet mind is what is then best enabled to respond in the domain of the emotions, intimate relations, etc. Yes exactly good post. You used the word I think but from your own experience? Yup. Just a little unsure sure how much it generalizes, that's why I said "I think." In my experience of meeting different teachers especially many who awaken and many who just come out and teach. Is that the integrating of This into the body and behavioural scripts that were problematic in the story for many are pretty much still there as they go out and teach. The food fights on here are a classic example.[/quote] Agreed. Yes I certainly would. I'm a big proponent of psychoanalytic/psychodynamic therapy. In the eastern context, of course, these teachings were originally propagated to monks who had a lot of other things helping them with the mental baggage: a community, various vows, and a guru (who was of course part spiritual teacher, part therapist). So that explains some of the difference. Now all this said, we should not underestimate the power of self-inquiry & meditation & searching for the I am to create the space for processing and working through emotions and the unconscious. It's a two-way street, and ideally the psychological and the existential go back and forth. There definitely are such behavioral cells...
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