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Post by zendancer on Jul 16, 2017 14:06:29 GMT -5
What some of us call "The Natural State" is a relatively simple and effortless way of life that ensues after all existential questions have been resolved, and we've discovered, non-conceptually, what we are. Some people claim that it's a state of perpetual bliss, but based on my experience, bliss is always transient, whereas peace is lasting. It seems more accurate to say that there's an underlying background of peace and equanimity that remains unshakeable and continuous regardless of whatever is happening. After one sees "the big picture" it's never forgotten, and "the big picture" puts everything else into perspective.
In TNS self-referentiality is present, but it's nothing like the self-referentiality that precedes SR. Initially, thoughts about self-referentiality arise based upon the distinction/idea and associated story that one is a separate volitional entity, but after SR, self-referentiality is understood only as a useful imaginary distinction for purposes of communication. Life becomes extremely matter-of-fact. One knows what to do, and one does it. Afterwards, one does the next thing that needs to be done.
In TNS it's usually (though not always) understood that worrying about the future, fantasizing about the future, thinking in terms of "shoulds" or "oughts," comparing, and judging are a misuse of mind that psychologically keeps one separated from the truth of whatever is happening in the present moment. Planning and problem solving continue as before, but there are no thoughts that one should be doing anything other than what one is doing.
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Post by laughter on Jul 17, 2017 1:13:45 GMT -5
ZD, what would you say about: "planning happens"?
There's no TMT here. It's just that there is, in my opinion, a potential to misinterpret your description as a literal rejection of any type of future visualization like looking at a map or a blueprint or listening to a weather forecast.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 17, 2017 5:33:01 GMT -5
ZD, what would you say about: "planning happens"? There's no TMT here. It's just that there is, in my opinion, a potential to misinterpret your description as a literal rejection of any type of future visualization like looking at a map or a blueprint or listening to a weather forecast. Correct. Planning is not the type of fantasization I'm referring to, and it's no problem. The fantasization I'm referring to takes the form of: 1. If i didn't have to be doing what I am doing, I could, instead, be doing ____________________(fill in the blank) 2. If I owned __________________(fill in the blank), I'd be a happy person 3. When such and such happens _______________(fill in the blank), I'll be a happy person People often daydream about meeting the perfect lover, about doing heroic things, about what other people think of them, about fame and fortune, etc. All such thoughts keep them psychologically separated from the simple truth of "what is." As Byron Katie says, "What IS rules." Keeping attention upon "what is" keeps life simple and results in flow.
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Post by laughter on Jul 19, 2017 5:13:15 GMT -5
This natural state can be directly related to the discussions about "alignment"/"purification". Alignment is about a material manifestation of inner-peace. This inner-peace is what I take ZD to refer to most often with the term "equanimity". While alignment can happen either before or after SR, the natural state describes what happens post-SR.
Since alignment is a relative quality of an individual, there is no absolute statement that can be made about it. This flies in the face of thousands of years of culture that describe the enlightened individual as saint-like. But it is possible to identify tendencies. This is just simple empiricism -- what are some commonalities between individuals that are widely recognized as having realized the existential truth?
While the natural state is ultimately independent of alignment, the clarity with regard to appearances after SR lends a certain natural gravity toward alignment. Events that used to cause suffering will still cause substantial pain, but that pain is no longer internalized. This means that the effect of pain in the present loses it's hold over the future. Also, the suffering of others isn't ignored. In fact, the natural state is one in which the patterns of denial that would normally obscure noticing the suffering of others have no center on which to grasp. But in the natural state, the suffering of others doesn't result in suffering of our own. Compassion can flow freely, with no risk to love.
So while alignment is conditional, and dependent on the conditions the individual finds themselves in and a part of at the moment of SR, the clarity of the natural state reveals those conditions for what they are in the movement of life that follows. But how that happens for any one "SR peep" will never play out exactly the same way twice. If you want a clue as to whether a given speaker/writer is SR based on your evaluation of their alignment, it's best to compare what they do and how they react over time going forward, rather than apply your subjective bias to what you feel about them as you first encounter them. As always, the absolute is a constant source of the unexpected. If you're honest with yourself that you have yet something left to realize, it's best to first check your personal opinions of other peeps at the door. The alternative is to let your mind deceive you into mistaking the truth for a lie, and vice-versa.
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Post by lolly on Jul 19, 2017 9:13:53 GMT -5
In the spiritual tradition I'm familiar with 'progress' is quantified by the degree of stability of balance of equanimity. We find some people who have incredible spiritual experiences don;t have a stable balance, and some other with very mundane experiences are extraordinarily solid. I've sat with and discussed with people far more advanced in spiritual things, astral projectins, kandalini awakenings and so forth, and when it comes to 'just sitting' they can't keep an even disposition because discomforts upset them and special experiences are craved for. I mean it is great to practice and develop paranormal ability, but that underlying stability of equanimity is the 'measure', if you will, of one's spiritual development.
In the rhetoric this doesn't regard states such as samadhi, but is referred to as 'samma samadhi', which translates as 'right observation' or 'right meditation' or something like that, which is irregardless of the state of mind being busy and crude or subtle and quiet. It rather refers to ones conscious awareness of, not so much the mind per-se, but the living sensory experience, without any personal reactivity - or at least, additional reactivity to what may be the case. Hence it is said that awareness with equanimity is the key to meditation... and meditation is also called 'the natural state' - but this doesn't refer to any sort of state of mind so much as it does awareness of the mind's movements (with respect to the sensational experience).
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 19, 2017 9:35:31 GMT -5
In the spiritual tradition I'm familiar with 'progress' is quantified by the degree of stability of balance of equanimity. We find some people who have incredible spiritual experiences don;t have a stable balance, and some other with very mundane experiences are extraordinarily solid. I've sat with and discussed with people far more advanced in spiritual things, astral projectins, kandalini awakenings and so forth, and when it comes to 'just sitting' they can't keep an even disposition because discomforts upset them and special experiences are craved for. I mean it is great to practice and develop paranormal ability, but that underlying stability of equanimity is the 'measure', if you will, of one's spiritual development. In the rhetoric this doesn't regard states such as samadhi, but is referred to as 'samma samadhi', which translates as 'right observation' or 'right meditation' or something like that, which is irregardless of the state of mind being busy and crude or subtle and quiet. It rather refers to ones conscious awareness of, not so much the mind per-se, but the living sensory experience, without any personal reactivity - or at least, additional reactivity to what may be the case. Hence it is said that awareness with equanimity is the key to meditation... and meditation is also called 'the natural state' - but this doesn't refer to any sort of state of mind so much as it does awareness of the mind's movements (with respect to the sensational experience). A lot of that rings true with my experience too. Where does SR fit in that schema? (if even relevant?)
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 19, 2017 9:38:50 GMT -5
This natural state can be directly related to the discussions about "alignment"/"purification". Alignment is about a material manifestation of inner-peace. This inner-peace is what I take ZD to refer to most often with the term "equanimity". While alignment can happen either before or after SR, the natural state describes what happens post-SR. Since alignment is a relative quality of an individual, there is no absolute statement that can be made about it. This flies in the face of thousands of years of culture that describe the enlightened individual as saint-like. But it is possible to identify tendencies. This is just simple empiricism -- what are some commonalities between individuals that are widely recognized as having realized the existential truth? While the natural state is ultimately independent of alignment, the clarity with regard to appearances after SR lends a certain natural gravity toward alignment. Events that used to cause suffering will still cause substantial pain, but that pain is no longer internalized. This means that the effect of pain in the present loses it's hold over the future. Also, the suffering of others isn't ignored. In fact, the natural state is one in which the patterns of denial that would normally obscure noticing the suffering of others have no center on which to grasp. But in the natural state, the suffering of others doesn't result in suffering of our own. Compassion can flow freely, with no risk to love. So while alignment is conditional, and dependent on the conditions the individual finds themselves in and a part of at the moment of SR, the clarity of the natural state reveals those conditions for what they are in the movement of life that follows. But how that happens for any one "SR peep" will never play out exactly the same way twice. If you want a clue as to whether a given speaker/writer is SR based on your evaluation of their alignment, it's best to compare what they do and how they react over time going forward, rather than apply your subjective bias to what you feel about them as you first encounter them. As always, the absolute is a constant source of the unexpected. If you're honest with yourself that you have yet something left to realize, it's best to first check your personal opinions of other peeps at the door. The alternative is to let your mind deceive you into mistaking the truth for a lie, and vice-versa. Good advice. And correspondingly, any opinions of what SR means or how it may be manifest. Understanding, held very lightly.
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Post by lolly on Jul 19, 2017 10:30:07 GMT -5
In the spiritual tradition I'm familiar with 'progress' is quantified by the degree of stability of balance of equanimity. We find some people who have incredible spiritual experiences don;t have a stable balance, and some other with very mundane experiences are extraordinarily solid. I've sat with and discussed with people far more advanced in spiritual things, astral projectins, kandalini awakenings and so forth, and when it comes to 'just sitting' they can't keep an even disposition because discomforts upset them and special experiences are craved for. I mean it is great to practice and develop paranormal ability, but that underlying stability of equanimity is the 'measure', if you will, of one's spiritual development. In the rhetoric this doesn't regard states such as samadhi, but is referred to as 'samma samadhi', which translates as 'right observation' or 'right meditation' or something like that, which is irregardless of the state of mind being busy and crude or subtle and quiet. It rather refers to ones conscious awareness of, not so much the mind per-se, but the living sensory experience, without any personal reactivity - or at least, additional reactivity to what may be the case. Hence it is said that awareness with equanimity is the key to meditation... and meditation is also called 'the natural state' - but this doesn't refer to any sort of state of mind so much as it does awareness of the mind's movements (with respect to the sensational experience). A lot of that rings true with my experience too. Where does SR fit in that schema? (if even relevant?) SR regards the self, and you are you, so they say, you seek what is seeking.
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Post by preciocho on Jul 19, 2017 11:43:54 GMT -5
What some of us call "The Natural State" is a relatively simple and effortless way of life that ensues after all existential questions have been resolved, and we've discovered, non-conceptually, what we are. Some people claim that it's a state of perpetual bliss, but based on my experience, bliss is always transient, whereas peace is lasting. It seems more accurate to say that there's an underlying background of peace and equanimity that remains unshakeable and continuous regardless of whatever is happening. After one sees "the big picture" it's never forgotten, and "the big picture" puts everything else into perspective. In TNS self-referentiality is present, but it's nothing like the self-referentiality that precedes SR. Initially, thoughts about self-referentiality arise based upon the distinction/idea and associated story that one is a separate volitional entity, but after SR, self-referentiality is understood only as a useful imaginary distinction for purposes of communication. Life becomes extremely matter-of-fact. One knows what to do, and one does it. Afterwards, one does the next thing that needs to be done. In TNS it's usually (though not always) understood that worrying about the future, fantasizing about the future, thinking in terms of "shoulds" or "oughts," comparing, and judging are a misuse of mind that psychologically keeps one separated from the truth of whatever is happening in the present moment. Planning and problem solving continue as before, but there are no thoughts that one should be doing anything other than what one is doing. Other subjects to be discussed: Open-mindedness Tolerance Flexibility Acceptance Gratitude Compassion Service Not that long ago I was working in a school teaching a variety of subjects to various groups. One class was actually already set up to learn about 'the collective identity', likely more for a sense of developing national pride flowing from the already existing syllabus. I decided to throw in some stuff about the collective identification complex, and so the night before planned a moderately keeled lesson that incorporated things I thought were interesting. Anyway, my morning class prior to that class was an intense class. We were talking about hypnosis and the law. The discussion was lively and it was shaping up to be a great day. After my morning class, I headed over to the library, when I noticed something curious. The identity class was on deck in about an hour, and about 45 minutes prior to that class, I smelled something. Is that someone's a** I wondered? A funk began permeating the library environment, and after a few minutes, I couldn't help but wonder if I was the source of that smell? Welp, I made a quick run through of my day's grooming habits. I showered. My clothes are clean. Could this be feet, I pondered? Have my socks or shoes turned on me? The smell was so putrid, I walked to the bathroom to check my feet. Relieved that it was not my feet, I figured it must have been something in the library, and that I was in the clear. I grabbed my stuff, headed up to the room, when something interesting happened. I entered a classroom that didn't have the AC on. The temp got up to around 95 that day my friends, closer to 100 if you ask me. Well anyway, I start the class, and everything is going great. I was in the honeymoon phase during this time, where the kids really enjoyed their new teacher and I was enjoying getting to know all my kids. What more could a guy ask for? Then suddenly, whiteboard marker in hand, it hits me. It's back! And worse than ever. I catalogued what in God's name is the smell, when a flashback occurred. 6 weeks prior I was in a hotel room, and Yadira decided to use my wife beater, or under shirt tank top, to wipe my son's a**. We were out of baby wipes, and soft cotton is a forgiving fabric for a cooley. Through a bizarre chain of events, that shirt made its way into my luggage unwashed and onto my body on the hottest day of the year. 2 month old digested strained peaches and carrots began to combine with perspiration and body heat through a form of fusion, releasing a toxic nerve gas that could no doubt have been used to take out a village of people. Feeling like Charlie Brown's friend with the dirt circling around him, I continued with the lesson! I had a 5 foot buffer zone that led to some feelings of comfort, when with 5 minutes to go, a decision had to be made. End the class early because I had said everything and the kids were good, or blather on for 5 minutes about nothing, disallowing the chance of the end of the class desk huddle students sometimes gravitate toward. What to do? Welp, I ended the class, and sure enough, a young lady comes up to ask me this or that, and got hit with the nerve gas. She goes back and tells her friend, who then comes up, and she likewise gets pummeled. Oh, the horror! While I wanted to stand up and alert my class I'd been bathing in feces and sweat for the last hour, I decided to take the ego blow. The class ended, I quickly and shamefully headed out, made my way back to the apartment for a quick change up, and back in time for the afternoon class without a scratch.
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 19, 2017 16:07:45 GMT -5
What some of us call "The Natural State" is a relatively simple and effortless way of life that ensues after all existential questions have been resolved, and we've discovered, non-conceptually, what we are. Some people claim that it's a state of perpetual bliss, but based on my experience, bliss is always transient, whereas peace is lasting. It seems more accurate to say that there's an underlying background of peace and equanimity that remains unshakeable and continuous regardless of whatever is happening. After one sees "the big picture" it's never forgotten, and "the big picture" puts everything else into perspective. In TNS self-referentiality is present, but it's nothing like the self-referentiality that precedes SR. Initially, thoughts about self-referentiality arise based upon the distinction/idea and associated story that one is a separate volitional entity, but after SR, self-referentiality is understood only as a useful imaginary distinction for purposes of communication. Life becomes extremely matter-of-fact. One knows what to do, and one does it. Afterwards, one does the next thing that needs to be done. In TNS it's usually (though not always) understood that worrying about the future, fantasizing about the future, thinking in terms of "shoulds" or "oughts," comparing, and judging are a misuse of mind that psychologically keeps one separated from the truth of whatever is happening in the present moment. Planning and problem solving continue as before, but there are no thoughts that one should be doing anything other than what one is doing. Other subjects to be discussed: Open-mindedness Tolerance Flexibility Acceptance Gratitude Compassion Service Not that long ago I was working in a school teaching a variety of subjects to various groups. One class was actually already set up to learn about 'the collective identity', likely more for a sense of developing national pride flowing from the already existing syllabus. I decided to throw in some stuff about the collective identification complex, and so the night before planned a moderately keeled lesson that incorporated things I thought were interesting. Anyway, my morning class prior to that class was an intense class. We were talking about hypnosis and the law. The discussion was lively and it was shaping up to be a great day. After my morning class, I headed over to the library, when I noticed something curious. The identity class was on deck in about an hour, and about 45 minutes prior to that class, I smelled something. Is that someone's a** I wondered? A funk began permeating the library environment, and after a few minutes, I couldn't help but wonder if I was the source of that smell? Welp, I made a quick run through of my day's grooming habits. I showered. My clothes are clean. Could this be feet, I pondered? Have my socks or shoes turned on me? The smell was so putrid, I walked to the bathroom to check my feet. Relieved that it was not my feet, I figured it must have been something in the library, and that I was in the clear. I grabbed my stuff, headed up to the room, when something interesting happened. I entered a classroom that didn't have the AC on. The temp got up to around 95 that day my friends, closer to 100 if you ask me. Well anyway, I start the class, and everything is going great. I was in the honeymoon phase during this time, where the kids really enjoyed their new teacher and I was enjoying getting to know all my kids. What more could a guy ask for? Then suddenly, whiteboard marker in hand, it hits me. It's back! And worse than ever. I catalogued what in God's name is the smell, when a flashback occurred. 6 weeks prior I was in a hotel room, and Yadira decided to use my wife beater, or under shirt tank top, to wipe my son's a**. We were out of baby wipes, and soft cotton is a forgiving fabric for a cooley. Through a bizarre chain of events, that shirt made its way into my luggage unwashed and onto my body on the hottest day of the year. 2 month old digested strained peaches and carrots began to combine with perspiration and body heat through a form of fusion, releasing a toxic nerve gas that could no doubt have been used to take out a village of people. Feeling like Charlie Brown's friend with the dirt circling around him, I continued with the lesson! I had a 5 foot buffer zone that led to some feelings of comfort, when with 5 minutes to go, a decision had to be made. End the class early because I had said everything and the kids were good, or blather on for 5 minutes about nothing, disallowing the chance of the end of the class desk huddle students sometimes gravitate toward. What to do? Welp, I ended the class, and sure enough, a young lady comes up to ask me this or that, and got hit with the nerve gas. She goes back and tells her friend, who then comes up, and she likewise gets pummeled. Oh, the horror! While I wanted to stand up and alert my class I'd been bathing in feces and sweat for the last hour, I decided to take the ego blow. The class ended, I quickly and shamefully headed out, made my way back to the apartment for a quick change up, and back in time for the afternoon class without a scratch. hahaha I think you meant this for the Astral Projection thread?
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Post by maxdprophet on Jul 19, 2017 16:10:10 GMT -5
A lot of that rings true with my experience too. Where does SR fit in that schema? (if even relevant?) SR regards the self, and you are you, so they say, you seek what is seeking. No it's not self-Realization, it's Self-Realization. Is there Self, for one? And can it be Realized? And does that matter with respect to equanimity/TNS?
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Post by zendancer on Jul 19, 2017 16:45:39 GMT -5
SR regards the self, and you are you, so they say, you seek what is seeking. No it's not self-Realization, it's Self-Realization. Is there Self, for one? And can it be Realized? And does that matter with respect to equanimity/TNS? Max: Little children live in TNS, but as their intellect develops, they quickly start making distinctions, learn the symbology for those distinctions, and gradually develop a stronger and stronger sense of separateness as they shift from direct experience (looking, listening, feeling, etc) to thoughts ABOUT what they see, hear, feel, etc. They begin talking to themselves (the internal dialogue), and their distinctions, reflections, and ideas about the world soon create a kind of imaginary verbal interface through which they interact with the world. Little children live in the NOW, but as they grow up, they spend more and more time thinking about an imaginary future and an imaginary past. By the time humans become adults, they spend most of their time interacting with the verbal meta-reality in their heads rather than with the real world. They don't interact with "what is;" they interact with their thoughts ABOUT "what is." IMO, to attain THS, as an adult, one must first attain SR, because it is only after SR that the mind becomes pacified (informed) by seeing the big picture. Until that happens one will continue to interact with the world through lots of unconscious self-referential thought patterns that are based on a false sense of selfhood. As I've noted in the past, one can intellectually understand that selfhood is an illusion, but until the conventional sense of "me" vanishes, and one realizes the infinite unified intelligence behind all phenomena, I don't think that true freedom is possible. I've been questioning various ND people (who appear to be free) about this issue, and I've discovered that they fall into at least three categories. The first category are people who will say something like this, "Five years ago, on a particular day, I looked inside and the 'me' was no longer there; it had totally disappeared. There was no longer an inside or an outside. I then realized that the Infinite is all there is, and I realized that my past sense of being a separate volitional entity had been a monumental illusion. I then knew what I truly am, and my spiritual search came to an end." I have no doubts whatsoever about these people because they all seem to "walk the talk." These people all seem relaxed, down to earth, full of humor and joy, self deprecating, and totally at peace. The second category seem to be people who realize at some point that the whole intellectual quest for understanding is a mind-game, and this realization causes them to give it up. They simply stop thinking about the existential questions that once bothered them. If you ask them questions about self versus Self, or other similar issues, they refuse to engage because they no longer see any point in thinking about such issues. I can understand where people in this category are coming from, but from my POV they seem to have stopped before encountering the Infinite. It's like they didn't go all the way and see what lies "behind the curtain" so to speak. The third category are people who claim to have had a CC experience or attained SR, accept what is as it is, and consider themselves enlightened, but who say or do things that seem incompatible with true freedom or lasting equanimity. I was recently surprised when a ND teacher sanctioned in a well-known ND tradition told me that for him suffering is just part of human life and that it never really ends. That kind of statement makes me have serious doubts about his/her clarity or level of attainment.
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Post by lolly on Jul 19, 2017 19:53:25 GMT -5
SR regards the self, and you are you, so they say, you seek what is seeking. No it's not self-Realization, it's Self-Realization. Is there Self, for one? And can it be Realized? And does that matter with respect to equanimity/TNS? Basically, 'equanimity' is used to describe the nature of awareness - so it's called 'natural'. It matters greatly in the sense that a great many people are not knowing of this presence of themselves, and they think it's different to the way they are now, but the way I say it is, you are not the self you remember, and you are not the imagined future self - you exist here and now - just the way you are - not some other way.
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Post by zendancer on Jul 20, 2017 1:14:51 GMT -5
This natural state can be directly related to the discussions about "alignment"/"purification". Alignment is about a material manifestation of inner-peace. This inner-peace is what I take ZD to refer to most often with the term "equanimity". While alignment can happen either before or after SR, the natural state describes what happens post-SR. Since alignment is a relative quality of an individual, there is no absolute statement that can be made about it. This flies in the face of thousands of years of culture that describe the enlightened individual as saint-like. But it is possible to identify tendencies. This is just simple empiricism -- what are some commonalities between individuals that are widely recognized as having realized the existential truth? While the natural state is ultimately independent of alignment, the clarity with regard to appearances after SR lends a certain natural gravity toward alignment. Events that used to cause suffering will still cause substantial pain, but that pain is no longer internalized. This means that the effect of pain in the present loses it's hold over the future. Also, the suffering of others isn't ignored. In fact, the natural state is one in which the patterns of denial that would normally obscure noticing the suffering of others have no center on which to grasp. But in the natural state, the suffering of others doesn't result in suffering of our own. Compassion can flow freely, with no risk to love. So while alignment is conditional, and dependent on the conditions the individual finds themselves in and a part of at the moment of SR, the clarity of the natural state reveals those conditions for what they are in the movement of life that follows. But how that happens for any one "SR peep" will never play out exactly the same way twice. If you want a clue as to whether a given speaker/writer is SR based on your evaluation of their alignment, it's best to compare what they do and how they react over time going forward, rather than apply your subjective bias to what you feel about them as you first encounter them. As always, the absolute is a constant source of the unexpected. If you're honest with yourself that you have yet something left to realize, it's best to first check your personal opinions of other peeps at the door. The alternative is to let your mind deceive you into mistaking the truth for a lie, and vice-versa. I agree with this although I have to confess that I don't really understand or relate to the alignment/purification thingy. I'm open-minded about it, but it just doesn't have much meaning for me. If I learned tomorrow that the body has a terminal illness, I don't think that it would bother me in the least, but I wouldn't think that the illness was caused by a lack of alignment. I do recognize that certain people have what are obviously psycho-somatic repetitive illnesses, but it's hard for me to believe that Ramana's cancer was caused by a lack of alignment. Cancer seems to be a disease associated with aging, certain specific environmental factors, and obesity. I once heard a doctor state that if we live long enough, almost everyone will get some form of cancer.
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Post by lolly on Jul 20, 2017 2:06:45 GMT -5
This natural state can be directly related to the discussions about "alignment"/"purification". Alignment is about a material manifestation of inner-peace. This inner-peace is what I take ZD to refer to most often with the term "equanimity". While alignment can happen either before or after SR, the natural state describes what happens post-SR. Since alignment is a relative quality of an individual, there is no absolute statement that can be made about it. This flies in the face of thousands of years of culture that describe the enlightened individual as saint-like. But it is possible to identify tendencies. This is just simple empiricism -- what are some commonalities between individuals that are widely recognized as having realized the existential truth? While the natural state is ultimately independent of alignment, the clarity with regard to appearances after SR lends a certain natural gravity toward alignment. Events that used to cause suffering will still cause substantial pain, but that pain is no longer internalized. This means that the effect of pain in the present loses it's hold over the future. Also, the suffering of others isn't ignored. In fact, the natural state is one in which the patterns of denial that would normally obscure noticing the suffering of others have no center on which to grasp. But in the natural state, the suffering of others doesn't result in suffering of our own. Compassion can flow freely, with no risk to love. So while alignment is conditional, and dependent on the conditions the individual finds themselves in and a part of at the moment of SR, the clarity of the natural state reveals those conditions for what they are in the movement of life that follows. But how that happens for any one "SR peep" will never play out exactly the same way twice. If you want a clue as to whether a given speaker/writer is SR based on your evaluation of their alignment, it's best to compare what they do and how they react over time going forward, rather than apply your subjective bias to what you feel about them as you first encounter them. As always, the absolute is a constant source of the unexpected. If you're honest with yourself that you have yet something left to realize, it's best to first check your personal opinions of other peeps at the door. The alternative is to let your mind deceive you into mistaking the truth for a lie, and vice-versa. I agree with this although I have to confess that I don't really understand or relate to the alignment/purification thingy. I'm open-minded about it, but it just doesn't have much meaning for me. If I learned tomorrow that the body has a terminal illness, I don't think that it would bother me in the least, but I wouldn't think that the illness was caused by a lack of alignment. I do recognize that certain people have what are obviously psycho-somatic repetitive illnesses, but it's hard for me to believe that Ramana's cancer was caused by a lack of alignment. Cancer seems to be a disease associated with aging, certain specific environmental factors, and obesity. I once heard a doctor state that if we live long enough, almost everyone will get some form of cancer. Mostly, the simplest facets of eating clean, sleeping well, and undertaking healthy physical activity are far more relevant than anything else in that regard.
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