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Post by zendancer on Oct 7, 2015 8:16:21 GMT -5
Zin: Yes, there's an old Zen story about an enlightened family. When people asked the father how difficult it was to find the truth, he would reply, "Oh it's incredibly difficult. It's the hardest thing in the world." When people asked his wife the same question, she would reply, "It's as easy as pie; there's nothing to it." When they asked the daughter, she would reply, "It's neither hard nor easy; "hard" and "easy" are both ideas, and the truth, as well as how the truth is found, is beyond all words or ideas." Nevertheless, all of the people I've met who eventually found what they were looking for, existentially, would probably be described as driven, consumed, extreme, or even fanatical. ha ha Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?.. I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say.. I've noticed that the younger someone is, the less intellectual baggage s/he tends to carry. If you found your way at 17, you were very lucky. By the age of 17 I was already thinking a great deal, and the thinking only increased as I got older. By the age of 30 I was an intense intellectual, and I spent an inordinate amount of time reflecting ABOUT reality. Fortunately, this body/mind was also intuitive, and I intuited that there was something unknown and unseen that everyone I knew seemed to be somehow overlooking (or had no interest in finding) that might help me make sense of reality and answer my many existential questions. The breakthrough was a CC experience at the age of 40, and for the first time I realized that I had been looking for the truth in the wrong direction and in the wrong way. The path turned out to be a path of unlearning and not knowing (intellectually), and the relinquishment of intellection as a primary mode of interacting with the world. It was a path of conceptual loss that led to non-conceptual gain. Along the way I encountered hundreds of people who were interested in finding the "living" truth (as opposed to the dead truth of intellection), and I learned (from hearing their stories) that the clearest and free-est people I met were people who had been just as intensely interested in finding the truth as I had been. One fellow spent almost 30 years searching for some way to directly experience God. Two or three were scientists who had intuited that something was fundamentally flawed in the conventional paradigm of an objective reality, and had become obsessed with finding the flaw. Etc. etc. Later, I read about a few people who stumbled upon the truth who had not been actively searching for it (Tolle, Ramana, etc), but they were the rare exceptions. Other people's mileage may vary, but Niz's statement resonates with my own experiences on this path. It may apply mainly to adults, because adults carry way more intellectual baggage and conditioning than young people, but I suspect that being "extreme" increases the likelihood of finding the "supreme." ATST, I don't see it as a causal relationship; it is more of a correlative thing concerning how isness unfolds.
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 7, 2015 9:44:48 GMT -5
Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?.. I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say.. I've noticed that the younger someone is, the less intellectual baggage s/he tends to carry. If you found your way at 17, you were very lucky. By the age of 17 I was already thinking a great deal, and the thinking only increased as I got older. By the age of 30 I was an intense intellectual, and I spent an inordinate amount of time reflecting ABOUT reality. Fortunately, this body/mind was also intuitive, and I intuited that there was something unknown and unseen that everyone I knew seemed to be somehow overlooking (or had no interest in finding) that might help me make sense of reality and answer my many existential questions. The breakthrough was a CC experience at the age of 40, and for the first time I realized that I had been looking for the truth in the wrong direction and in the wrong way. The path turned out to be a path of unlearning and not knowing (intellectually), and the relinquishment of intellection as a primary mode of interacting with the world. It was a path of conceptual loss that led to non-conceptual gain. Along the way I encountered hundreds of people who were interested in finding the "living" truth (as opposed to the dead truth of intellection), and I learned (from hearing their stories) that the clearest and free-est people I met were people who had been just as intensely interested in finding the truth as I had been. One fellow spent almost 30 years searching for some way to directly experience God. Two or three were scientists who had intuited that something was fundamentally flawed in the conventional paradigm of an objective reality, and had become obsessed with finding the flaw. Etc. etc. Later, I read about a few people who stumbled upon the truth who had not been actively searching for it (Tolle, Ramana, etc), but they were the rare exceptions. Other people's mileage may vary, but Niz's statement resonates with my own experiences on this path. It may apply mainly to adults, because adults carry way more intellectual baggage and conditioning than young people, but I suspect that being "extreme" increases the likelihood of finding the "supreme." ATST, I don't see it as a causal relationship; it is more of a correlative thing concerning how isness unfolds. 'Finding the way' and living it are different sides of a rare coin..
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Post by zendancer on Oct 7, 2015 11:55:13 GMT -5
I've noticed that the younger someone is, the less intellectual baggage s/he tends to carry. If you found your way at 17, you were very lucky. By the age of 17 I was already thinking a great deal, and the thinking only increased as I got older. By the age of 30 I was an intense intellectual, and I spent an inordinate amount of time reflecting ABOUT reality. Fortunately, this body/mind was also intuitive, and I intuited that there was something unknown and unseen that everyone I knew seemed to be somehow overlooking (or had no interest in finding) that might help me make sense of reality and answer my many existential questions. The breakthrough was a CC experience at the age of 40, and for the first time I realized that I had been looking for the truth in the wrong direction and in the wrong way. The path turned out to be a path of unlearning and not knowing (intellectually), and the relinquishment of intellection as a primary mode of interacting with the world. It was a path of conceptual loss that led to non-conceptual gain. Along the way I encountered hundreds of people who were interested in finding the "living" truth (as opposed to the dead truth of intellection), and I learned (from hearing their stories) that the clearest and free-est people I met were people who had been just as intensely interested in finding the truth as I had been. One fellow spent almost 30 years searching for some way to directly experience God. Two or three were scientists who had intuited that something was fundamentally flawed in the conventional paradigm of an objective reality, and had become obsessed with finding the flaw. Etc. etc. Later, I read about a few people who stumbled upon the truth who had not been actively searching for it (Tolle, Ramana, etc), but they were the rare exceptions. Other people's mileage may vary, but Niz's statement resonates with my own experiences on this path. It may apply mainly to adults, because adults carry way more intellectual baggage and conditioning than young people, but I suspect that being "extreme" increases the likelihood of finding the "supreme." ATST, I don't see it as a causal relationship; it is more of a correlative thing concerning how isness unfolds. 'Finding the way' and living it are different sides of a rare coin.. Unless one eventually lives it, finding the way isn't worth much, so you wouldn't hear any argument from me on that score
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 7, 2015 12:50:26 GMT -5
'Finding the way' and living it are different sides of a rare coin.. Unless one eventually lives it, finding the way isn't worth much, so you wouldn't hear any argument from me on that score Matt 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."
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Post by laughter on Oct 7, 2015 14:42:04 GMT -5
Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?.. I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say.. I've noticed that the younger someone is, the less intellectual baggage s/he tends to carry. If you found your way at 17, you were very lucky. By the age of 17 I was already thinking a great deal, and the thinking only increased as I got older. By the age of 30 I was an intense intellectual, and I spent an inordinate amount of time reflecting ABOUT reality. Fortunately, this body/mind was also intuitive, and I intuited that there was something unknown and unseen that everyone I knew seemed to be somehow overlooking (or had no interest in finding) that might help me make sense of reality and answer my many existential questions. The breakthrough was a CC experience at the age of 40, and for the first time I realized that I had been looking for the truth in the wrong direction and in the wrong way. The path turned out to be a path of unlearning and not knowing (intellectually), and the relinquishment of intellection as a primary mode of interacting with the world. It was a path of conceptual loss that led to non-conceptual gain. Along the way I encountered hundreds of people who were interested in finding the "living" truth (as opposed to the dead truth of intellection), and I learned (from hearing their stories) that the clearest and free-est people I met were people who had been just as intensely interested in finding the truth as I had been. One fellow spent almost 30 years searching for some way to directly experience God. Two or three were scientists who had intuited that something was fundamentally flawed in the conventional paradigm of an objective reality, and had become obsessed with finding the flaw. Etc. etc. Later, I read about a few people who stumbled upon the truth who had not been actively searching for it (Tolle, Ramana, etc), but they were the rare exceptions. Other people's mileage may vary, but Niz's statement resonates with my own experiences on this path. It may apply mainly to adults, because adults carry way more intellectual baggage and conditioning than young people, but I suspect that being "extreme" increases the likelihood of finding the "supreme." ATST, I don't see it as a causal relationship; it is more of a correlative thing concerning how isness unfolds. The truth has a pull to it that's reflected by unconscious movement toward it in the arts and the sciences, so even people not consciously engaged in seeking might find themselves suddenly confronted with it. Like Cheryl Strayed, for example.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 7, 2015 15:07:50 GMT -5
There is an early experience that I've never forgotten which comes to mind every now and then. Today it came to mind and I realized it was probably the first time I bumped into reality, and it was probably my first philosophical exploration. I was probably about 5 or 6. My ~thing~ when I was young was small toy plastic men. My first was a grey Viking with a sword at his side, and horned helmet. My aunt Kat worked in a toy store, and I remember seeing it, and 'pitching a fit', simply demanding to have it, my mother gave in, bought it for me. That was a prized possession, for a good while, other men were added to my collection, the kind that are ~about~ 3 inches tall.
One day I decided one of my other men needed the sword of my Viking, a sort of loan. So I got out a (real) knife and proceeded to cut the sword off my Viking. I very quickly realized my mistake. The sword wasn't a sword at all, it became just a sword handle, and small piece of flimsy plastic, the sword had disappeared. I was very sad, but ATST, it seemed a lesson well learned, but from a terrible mistake. That Viking is probably still in my parent's attic, absent "sword" with a smooth spot on his leg, along with what came to be hundreds of other 'men', cowboys and Indians, green US Army soldiers, Confederate Greys and Union Blues, and numerous assortments of others.
Today I realized that event was probably my first exploration into what seems real, but isn't, or maybe vice versa. I learned to 'think' in an extra 'dimension' (metaphorically), of course I wouldn't have put it that way, then, but that's essentially what I learned. (Previously, my earliest venture expanding reality, was riding back from the beach, maybe 7 or 8 years old. I woke up and realized I had been in some kind of 'dreamland', in any case, I had been in some kind of altered state. I had been sleeping in the foot of the back seat. When I woke up I realize there were two worlds, I had just been in another world, and the only thing I could think of, to figure out which world I was [now] in, I blurted out almost in a kind of panic, "Are pots and pans really true"?! But almost as soon as I said it, I was fully awake, and realized it was a stupid question , except that a mere few seconds previously, it hadn't been a stupid question).
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Post by zendancer on Oct 7, 2015 21:23:24 GMT -5
There is an early experience that I've never forgotten which comes to mind every now and then. Today it came to mind and I realized it was probably the first time I bumped into reality, and it was probably my first philosophical exploration. I was probably about 5 or 6. My ~thing~ when I was young was small toy plastic men. My first was a grey Viking with a sword at his side, and horned helmet. My aunt Kat worked in a toy store, and I remember seeing it, and 'pitching a fit', simply demanding to have it, my mother gave in, bought it for me. That was a prized possession, for a good while, other men were added to my collection, the kind that are ~about~ 3 inches tall. One day I decided one of my other men needed the sword of my Viking, a sort of loan. So I got out a (real) knife and proceeded to cut the sword off my Viking. I very quickly realized my mistake. The sword wasn't a sword at all, it became just a sword handle, and small piece of flimsy plastic, the sword had disappeared. I was very sad, but ATST, it seemed a lesson well learned, but from a terrible mistake. That Viking is probably still in my parent's attic, absent "sword" with a smooth spot on his leg, along with what came to be hundreds of other 'men', cowboys and Indians, green US Army soldiers, Confederate Greys and Union Blues, and numerous assortments of others. Today I realized that event was probably my first exploration into what seems real, but isn't, or maybe vice versa. I learned to 'think' in an extra 'dimension' (metaphorically), of course I wouldn't have put it that way, then, but that's essentially what I learned. (Previously, my earliest venture expanding reality, was riding back from the beach, maybe 7 or 8 years old. I woke up and realized I had been in some kind of 'dreamland', in any case, I had been in some kind of altered state. I had been sleeping in the foot of the back seat. When I woke up I realize there were two worlds, I had just been in another world, and the only thing I could think of, to figure out which world I was [now] in, I blurted out almost in a kind of panic, "Are pots and pans really true"?! But almost as soon as I said it, I was fully awake, and realized it was a stupid question , except that a mere few seconds previously, it hadn't been a stupid question). Great story!
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Post by lilsun13 on Oct 9, 2015 23:09:32 GMT -5
Sometimes it's difficult to forgive yourself when you committed the same crime over and over. So much guilt that feels like I derve the punishment or just waiting for the punishment to come. This is one ego I have no dig into it yet.. too much guilt and ashamed. Anymore quotes to help with this?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 10, 2015 9:56:32 GMT -5
Sometimes it's difficult to forgive yourself when you committed the same crime over and over. So much guilt that feels like I derve the punishment or just waiting for the punishment to come. This is one ego I have no dig into it yet.. too much guilt and ashamed. Anymore quotes to help with this? Is your use of the word crime accurate? Meaning, are you talking about al illegal act, or is this just a figurative use of the word?
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Post by zendancer on Oct 10, 2015 10:39:49 GMT -5
Sometimes it's difficult to forgive yourself when you committed the same crime over and over. So much guilt that feels like I derve the punishment or just waiting for the punishment to come. This is one ego I have no dig into it yet.. too much guilt and ashamed. Anymore quotes to help with this? You might want to contemplate this issue like a koan, by asking yourself the question, "Who is to blame for what happened?" If you contemplate this question deeply, and ignore the usual thoughts you have about the issue, it might lead to a completely different way of understanding what took place. It might also provide a doorway into a world that can't be imagined. Many people in real prisons have become free while still in prison. Google John Sherman, and listen to one of his satsangs regarding his life story, and what he discovered.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 10, 2015 17:03:19 GMT -5
Sometimes it's difficult to forgive yourself when you committed the same crime over and over. So much guilt that feels like I derve the punishment or just waiting for the punishment to come. This is one ego I have no dig into it yet.. too much guilt and ashamed. Anymore quotes to help with this? lilsun13, I'm going to try to do this briefly, but rather thoroughly, at least a good start. You first have to look at the nature of self. After being a youth, we have dual nature, most of us for life, but not necessarily. Take a clean white sheet of paper, that's how we are born. Draw a circle on it. That represents the storing of sensory information in the brain. That's the 'job' of a baby, collecting sensory data, and it becomes stored in the brain. So draw a bunch of circles on the white paper, lots of information is stored. So the brain is a receiving device, it receives and stores information. So the first nature of a child is to receive. How is this accomplished? Through awareness, and through attention. So the nature of that white sheet of paper is awareness and attention. That's your basic nature, that's essentially what you are, the clean white paper. But about the age of 2 to 3, that stored information begins to form what we call a self, an ego, a personality. And by about the age of six that self is pretty well formed. There are thousands of those circles drawn on the paper, they overlap and make connections and form patterns. This is what actually happens in the neural structure of the brain, accidental connections are made between different patterns of information. Now why did I say make circles? A circle is a loop. What happens is that when we encounter new sensations from the exterior world (what we see, hear, smell, taste and touch), it reinforces the pattern that is already there. So it is actually a feed-back loop, which consist of habits. What are habits? They are thoughts, actions and feeling that automatically habitually repeat. So why do we call a self a self? These feed-back loops actually begin to limit and filter the incoming information. Our self is a boundary of habitual thoughts, feelings and actions, which limit and define how we actually see the world. We do not see the world clearly. We do not see what's actually out there, the filter of self allows in only what corresponds to itself. And seeing only what it is, feeds self, and perpetuates self. That's what you are seeing. Now, most people think they are free to do as they please, they don't recognize that their self is trapped by these habitual thoughts, feelings and actions. So you are actually in a better state, overall, psychologically, than 97% of all people, all the people who have ever lived. You see these repeating crimes, and the crime brings guilt, but the guilt is not enough to end the crimes. OK, that's your present state, except it's not. Remember that you are two. You are still that clean white sheet of paper, underneath all those circling loops. That's your real nature. That's what you were born with, born as. For as long as you can remember, you have said "I" to the self which is formed from the stored information. So, right now, this very minute, stop saying "I" to all these thoughts, all the feelings. Stop saying "I" to the guilt. Now, this will be exceptionally difficult to do. You have to choose to stop saying "I", every minute of every day. These thoughts will continually come up, and the guilt. (And of course it will help, if possible, to just remove yourself from the environment that perpetuates the habitual loops). So what do you do? You must go back to living like that newborn baby. Start living through your awareness. Start living through your attention. Just be aware of events, thoughts, feelings, and try to be very aware of your actions, your intended actions, because your actions carry the most weight. Now, you will fail, this is not in any sense easy to do. It's simple, but it's not easy. These old thoughts and feelings will jump up and take control. These old actions will jump up and take control, but try to just be a witness, to them. Just remember that who you really are, is your awareness. Just keep coming back to this over and over and over, eventually thousands of times a day. And some day your sense of self will shift from the thoughts, feelings in general and feelings of guilt, and actions, to this bare awareness. And eventually you will be able to forgive yourself, no matter what you might have done. Because this false sense of self you presently have, was created mostly from those first six years of life, ~you~ are not ~responsible~ for collecting the information that became self, it just happened. The more you make the effort to make this shift to this bare awareness, the sooner your sense of self will shift back to the 'clean white paper'. You may not ever know what to call this new way of being, but just know that it will not be the ~old you~. Just try it, experiment. And listen to ZD, he has excellent advice. Do you know the story of Rubin "Hurricane" Carter? edit: Hurricane Carter was innocent. He had to find a way to survive imprisonment, for twenty years, knowing he was innocent. He read and studied numerous different philosophies and teachings. Above, that's how he survived. He was finally freed, and he continued to study and live this teaching.
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Post by lilsun13 on Oct 14, 2015 15:35:14 GMT -5
Thanks stardustpilgrim, I know exactly what you mean. The many "I" is an individual ego that clouded the light from perceiving life in the physical. when in awareness, light can shine and observe the individual ego and its root cause. However as you said, it's not easy to be aware because of the "I" as each fight for its food. But thank you for reminding that awareness is fundamental in the spiritual path. I do need to put more effort into this. I just realized what you described about the circle and overlapping circles is a diagram I saw in the book "The Flight of the Feathered Serpent." by Armando Cosani. I've looked at the diagram many times but never understood what it meant. It's a very profound book and i've read it 3 times but still cannot understand all the wisdom in there. Now that you talked about it, it's exactly that. It described love and light and the entertwine of subconscious or egos.. Of course, the story of the book is describing the diagram. Thanks! going to look through it tonight and study it to see if I can extract more wisdom from it. theflightofthefeatheredserpent.com/ Maybe someone can read this and look at the diagram and explain more since most of you would be able to grasp the message more. I would love to learn more.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 15, 2015 9:00:50 GMT -5
Thanks stardustpilgrim, I know exactly what you mean. The many "I" is an individual ego that clouded the light from perceiving life in the physical. when in awareness, light can shine and observe the individual ego and its root cause. However as you said, it's not easy to be aware because of the "I" as each fight for its food. But thank you for reminding that awareness is fundamental in the spiritual path. I do need to put more effort into this. I just realized what you described about the circle and overlapping circles is a diagram I saw in the book "The Flight of the Feathered Serpent." by Armando Cosani. I've looked at the diagram many times but never understood what it meant. It's a very profound book and i've read it 3 times but still cannot understand all the wisdom in there. Now that you talked about it, it's exactly that. It described love and light and the entertwine of subconscious or egos.. Of course, the story of the book is describing the diagram. Thanks! going to look through it tonight and study it to see if I can extract more wisdom from it. theflightofthefeatheredserpent.com/ Maybe someone can read this and look at the diagram and explain more since most of you would be able to grasp the message more. I would love to learn more. Thank you lilsun13...When I have time I can add some more about Judas, directly related to this...from a book published in 1950, same idea of Judas. I went to your link, looked at some quotes, saw the book cover, I didn't recognize the cover. However, at the back of my mind, I was thinking, I know that title.....and realized I have a book by that title (I don't know where it is, exactly, can't put my hands directly on it), but didn't recall the author's name. So I went to Amazon and looked it up, and yes, I have the book. It showed a 2004 copy with a different cover, that's the book I have, same author. So, I will poke around today and find it. I browsed it but didn't read it. I'm sure I bought it for the reason above (the other book, the 1950 book...and they might even possibly be linked). Now I am very intrigued. .....I don't recall pictures from the book. (The fact that I didn't read the book doesn't have a real connection to its value, there's always the next book.....)... The example I used about the loops I had not used before, it came to me as I was writing the post. But I have used this example of the white paper for over 15 years. Previously, I just drew lines, (adding) actually, colored lines, again, the lines representing sensory information stored in the neural structure of the brain. Adding, eventually the lines (loops) cover the whole sheet of paper, almost no white left. So, our ~identity~ shifts from ~true self~ to false self, we say "I" to the stored information instead of the white paper, again, which represents our awareness-as-true self. It came to me that loops would be a better representation, as described previously. Interior spiritual practice is about recovering our....trueness, our true self (the way to Self). Maybe we can discuss the book when I read it.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 15, 2015 22:21:11 GMT -5
Thanks stardustpilgrim, I know exactly what you mean. The many "I" is an individual ego that clouded the light from perceiving life in the physical. when in awareness, light can shine and observe the individual ego and its root cause. However as you said, it's not easy to be aware because of the "I" as each fight for its food. But thank you for reminding that awareness is fundamental in the spiritual path. I do need to put more effort into this. I just realized what you described about the circle and overlapping circles is a diagram I saw in the book "The Flight of the Feathered Serpent." by Armando Cosani. I've looked at the diagram many times but never understood what it meant. It's a very profound book and i've read it 3 times but still cannot understand all the wisdom in there. Now that you talked about it, it's exactly that. It described love and light and the entertwine of subconscious or egos.. Of course, the story of the book is describing the diagram. Thanks! going to look through it tonight and study it to see if I can extract more wisdom from it. theflightofthefeatheredserpent.com/ Maybe someone can read this and look at the diagram and explain more since most of you would be able to grasp the message more. I would love to learn more. Hey lilsun13, I found the book. I had read up to page 24, many years ago, maybe ten. I stopped too soon, it just began to get interesting. I read the first book today, started over, read up to page 113. If you read the book again, I think you will find some things that correspond to my original response, post Oct. 10, 6:03 PM (or you may can pick some things out from memory). Later I will go back and give page numbers that correspond. That means there is some kind of link, this is information from my tradition, it's pretty distinctive, some exact language. And I'm sure the reason I bought the book is because of the Judas connection (I'll try to get to the other book and some quotes, tomorrow). Cosani disguised the countries and cities where the events took place (as you know, he was told by his friend to do this), but by the time he finally mentioned South America, I figured it took place in South America. For my own reasons I'll guess Cosina ended up in Caracas, Venezuela. I remembered that there weren't many pictures, but I found the picture (diagram) you mentioned on page 106. It is not the picture I was indicating, mine was totally random, but it's nice that my picture brought this to your mind, otherwise I might never have gotten back to the book.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Oct 17, 2015 17:59:07 GMT -5
Thanks stardustpilgrim, I know exactly what you mean. The many "I" is an individual ego that clouded the light from perceiving life in the physical. when in awareness, light can shine and observe the individual ego and its root cause. However as you said, it's not easy to be aware because of the "I" as each fight for its food. But thank you for reminding that awareness is fundamental in the spiritual path. I do need to put more effort into this. I just realized what you described about the circle and overlapping circles is a diagram I saw in the book "The Flight of the Feathered Serpent." by Armando Cosani. I've looked at the diagram many times but never understood what it meant. It's a very profound book and i've read it 3 times but still cannot understand all the wisdom in there. Now that you talked about it, it's exactly that. It described love and light and the entertwine of subconscious or egos.. Of course, the story of the book is describing the diagram. Thanks! going to look through it tonight and study it to see if I can extract more wisdom from it. theflightofthefeatheredserpent.com/ Maybe someone can read this and look at the diagram and explain more since most of you would be able to grasp the message more. I would love to learn more. Hey lilsun13, As you know the cover of The Flight of the Feathered Serpent says: The truth about Judas finally revealed, that's what intrigued me. And then I browsed it, and bought it. Here's why. "But in fact, this Judas was not only the most faithful and devoted of all the near followers of Jesus Christ, but also, only thanks to his Reason and presence of mind all the acts of this Sacred Individual could form that result, which if it did not serve as the basis for the total destruction of the consequences of the properties of the organ Kundabuffer in these unfortunate three-brained beings, yet it was nevertheless, during twenty centuries the source of nourishment and inspiration for the majority of them in their desolate existence and made it at least a little endurable. ......He (Jesus Christ) was compelled to allow the premature cessation of his planetary existence to be accomplished. ........this Judas, now a Saint, leaped from his place and hurriedly said: I shall go and do everything in such a way that you should have the possibility of fulfilling this sacred preparation without hindrance, and meanwhile set to work at once. Having said this, he approached Jesus Christ and having confidentially spoken with Him a little and received His blessing, hurriedly left. ...... After what I have just said, you should now without any doubt understand how the three-brained beings...of the planet Earth which has taken your fancy, have distorted for their various egotistic aims all the truths to such an extent, that about this Judas, ...who is 'hated' and 'cursed'...rendered this great objective service for which terrestrial three-brained beings of all subsequent generations should be grateful...--thanks to whom alone such a blessed hearth of tranquility from their desolate existence had arisen and existed for them for twenty centuries--there has been crystalized in the presences of the beings of all subsequent generations such an unprecedented unjust representation". All and Everything, First Series, Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, by G. Gurdjieff, EP Dutton & Co., 1950, pages 740, 741, 742. Note, as with The Flight of the Feathered Serpent, this was written (1953) previous to the discovery of the Gospel of Judas, which makes the same claim. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judasedit: The Gospel of Judas came to light in 1983, was probably discovered in the 1970's. It has been carbon dated to 280 AD. Only one copy is known to exist.
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