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Post by zin on Oct 6, 2015 2:10:50 GMT -5
I guess I am from the crazy camp : ), and in any case I can't give advice. But your quote in the op took me to an online "I am That", I wish to put something from there. Also, you say "All this stuff makes some "sense"...", "The actions (...) - they do seem to have some effect, I can physically feel it"... you can follow this 'sense'; please don't think as 'temporary', 'too late', etc.. from 'I am That', chapter 66: Your outer life is unimportant. You can become a night watchman and live happily. It is what you are inwardly that matters. Your inner peace and joy you have to earn. It is much more difficult than earning money. No university can teach you to be yourself. The only way to learn is by practice. Right away begin to be yourself.
Wow! I don't know which I like best, the quote or the line beneath it--"You must be extreme to reach the supreme." That's totally rad! Niz and zin are thanking you! (couldn't resist! ) ( )
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 6, 2015 5:18:11 GMT -5
Yes, that does make sense. All I've ever seen or known is "now", and what I have to deal with is now. All this stuff makes some "sense", but I can also doubt it. I guess one must go beyond the words, and I have not done that yet. I still have doubts. I still wonder if maybe you're all just crazy. I guess I am from the crazy camp : ), and in any case I can't give advice. But your quote in the op took me to an online "I am That", I wish to put something from there. Also, you say "All this stuff makes some "sense"...", "The actions (...) - they do seem to have some effect, I can physically feel it"... you can follow this 'sense'; please don't think as 'temporary', 'too late', etc.. from 'I am That', chapter 66: Your outer life is unimportant. You can become a night watchman and live happily. It is what you are inwardly that matters. Your inner peace and joy you have to earn. It is much more difficult than earning money. No university can teach you to be yourself. The only way to learn is by practice. Right away begin to be yourself.
Peace is imminent, available with the next choice the experiencer makes.. It is as difficult as clinging to illusions, just let go..
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Post by zin on Oct 6, 2015 15:40:16 GMT -5
I guess I am from the crazy camp : ), and in any case I can't give advice. But your quote in the op took me to an online "I am That", I wish to put something from there. Also, you say "All this stuff makes some "sense"...", "The actions (...) - they do seem to have some effect, I can physically feel it"... you can follow this 'sense'; please don't think as 'temporary', 'too late', etc.. from 'I am That', chapter 66: Your outer life is unimportant. You can become a night watchman and live happily. It is what you are inwardly that matters. Your inner peace and joy you have to earn. It is much more difficult than earning money. No university can teach you to be yourself. The only way to learn is by practice. Right away begin to be yourself.
Peace is imminent, available with the next choice the experiencer makes.. It is as difficult as clinging to illusions, just let go.. OK, this is good advice, too. Sometimes a person feels a need to struggle, though. I am not speaking for Niz (yes I did that in the previous post, sigh!), I sometimes feel like that and then like to read this kind of talk, too.
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Post by zendancer on Oct 6, 2015 16:36:10 GMT -5
Zin: Yes, there's an old Zen story about an enlightened family. When people asked the father how difficult it was to find the truth, he would reply, "Oh it's incredibly difficult. It's the hardest thing in the world." When people asked his wife the same question, she would reply, "It's as easy as pie; there's nothing to it." When they asked the daughter, she would reply, "It's neither hard nor easy; "hard" and "easy" are both ideas, and the truth, as well as how the truth is found, is beyond all words or ideas."
Nevertheless, all of the people I've met who eventually found what they were looking for, existentially, would probably be described as driven, consumed, extreme, or even fanatical. ha ha
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Post by zin on Oct 6, 2015 16:41:45 GMT -5
Zin: Yes, there's an old Zen story about an enlightened family. When people asked the father how difficult it was to find the truth, he would reply, "Oh it's incredibly difficult. It's the hardest thing in the world." When people asked his wife the same question, she would reply, "It's as easy as pie; there's nothing to it." When they asked the daughter, she would reply, "It's neither hard nor easy; "hard" and "easy" are both ideas, and the truth, as well as how the truth is found, is beyond all words or ideas." Nevertheless, all of the people I've met who eventually found what they were looking for, existentially, would probably be described as driven, consumed, extreme, or even fanatical. ha haVery nice to hear this, thank you!
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 6, 2015 20:47:05 GMT -5
Zin: Yes, there's an old Zen story about an enlightened family. When people asked the father how difficult it was to find the truth, he would reply, "Oh it's incredibly difficult. It's the hardest thing in the world." When people asked his wife the same question, she would reply, "It's as easy as pie; there's nothing to it." When they asked the daughter, she would reply, "It's neither hard nor easy; "hard" and "easy" are both ideas, and the truth, as well as how the truth is found, is beyond all words or ideas." Nevertheless, all of the people I've met who eventually found what they were looking for, existentially, would probably be described as driven, consumed, extreme, or even fanatical. ha ha Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?.. I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say..
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 6, 2015 21:04:57 GMT -5
Zin: Yes, there's an old Zen story about an enlightened family. When people asked the father how difficult it was to find the truth, he would reply, "Oh it's incredibly difficult. It's the hardest thing in the world." When people asked his wife the same question, she would reply, "It's as easy as pie; there's nothing to it." When they asked the daughter, she would reply, "It's neither hard nor easy; "hard" and "easy" are both ideas, and the truth, as well as how the truth is found, is beyond all words or ideas." Nevertheless, all of the people I've met who eventually found what they were looking for, existentially, would probably be described as driven, consumed, extreme, or even fanatical. ha ha Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?..I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say.. What makes you think that ZD isn't simply reporting an objective observation? I see nothing in what he reports to suggest otherwise. What say you?
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 7, 2015 5:05:07 GMT -5
Have you considered that you may have developed expectations based on that bolded description?..I have experienced the opposite, a very early experience was that of a 17 year-old hippy-surfer kid in a head-shop that started reading a poster with the Desiderata by Max Ehrmann on it.. i had no expectation, no real interest other than the calligaphy, and no philosophical background that would explain the way those words resonated with 'me' other than maybe some martial arts 'dojo philosophy'.. what i was 'looking for' was for authenticity, or what i later realized as the clarity that would reveal authenticity and the 'way' of peace.. but, i must have read that poster 15 or 20 times, and each time the message evolved and the resonance deepened, and.. by the time my friends found me and began making fun of me, the 'way' had been revealed, i had found what i was 'looking for', now i could stop 'looking', start 'seeing, and start living that 'way'.. The 'way' was clear, set the baggage down and travel light, be genuinely curious without becoming attached, pay attention.. great expectations breed great disappointments, embrace that you don't know everything.. "i don't know" are the three most liberating words you can say.. What makes you think that ZD isn't simply reporting an objective observation? I see nothing in what he reports to suggest otherwise. What say you? I don't know what ZD is reporting, it very well could be an objective observation, and.. the reporting indicates there's a consistency of experience in his observations, that consistency may be the product of ZD's chosen environment and the company he keeps.. suppose you grew-up in a culture that has specific beliefs about the 'way' Life 'is', it would influence your understanding of your Life, and.. when you meet someone from a different culture, you might be inclined to view their 'way' as inferior, or wrong.. I asked ZD if he considered the possibility that he may have developed expectations based on the description he posted, i made no judgement about his objectivity..
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 7, 2015 5:53:30 GMT -5
What makes you think that ZD isn't simply reporting an objective observation? I see nothing in what he reports to suggest otherwise. What say you? I don't know what ZD is reporting, it very well could be an objective observation, and.. the reporting indicates there's a consistency of experience in his observations, that consistency may be the product of ZD's chosen environment and the company he keeps.. suppose you grew-up in a culture that has specific beliefs about the 'way' Life 'is', it would influence your understanding of your Life, and.. when you meet someone from a different culture, you might be inclined to view their 'way' as inferior, or wrong.. I asked ZD if he considered the possibility that he may have developed expectations based on the description he posted, i made no judgement about his objectivity.. Or it may be something else you don't know about. So, its good you've made no judgement.
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 7, 2015 5:58:07 GMT -5
I don't know what ZD is reporting, it very well could be an objective observation, and.. the reporting indicates there's a consistency of experience in his observations, that consistency may be the product of ZD's chosen environment and the company he keeps.. suppose you grew-up in a culture that has specific beliefs about the 'way' Life 'is', it would influence your understanding of your Life, and.. when you meet someone from a different culture, you might be inclined to view their 'way' as inferior, or wrong.. I asked ZD if he considered the possibility that he may have developed expectations based on the description he posted, i made no judgement about his objectivity.. Or it may be something else you don't know about. So, its good you've made no judgement. You might want to ask yourself why you 'judged' that i did make such a judgement when there was no indication of that in the post you referenced:
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 7, 2015 6:18:26 GMT -5
Or it may be something else you don't know about. So, its good you've made no judgement. You might want to ask yourself why you 'judged' that i did make such a judgement when there was no indication of that in the post you referenced: Your mantra is limited. I've seen no evidence of you letting go of any of it...yet.
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 7, 2015 7:00:46 GMT -5
You might want to ask yourself why you 'judged' that i did make such a judgement when there was no indication of that in the post you referenced: Your mantra is limited. I've seen no evidence of you letting go of any of it...yet. You see what you are looking for..
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 7, 2015 7:05:11 GMT -5
Your mantra is limited. I've seen no evidence of you letting go of any of it...yet. You see what you are looking for.. or I see what I see.
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Post by tzujanli on Oct 7, 2015 7:12:13 GMT -5
You might want to ask yourself why you 'judged' that i did make such a judgement when there was no indication of that in the post you referenced: Your mantra is limited. I've seen no evidence of you letting go of any of it...yet. You assumed and projected that assumption on the target of your dislike.. it's what you do..
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Post by justlikeyou on Oct 7, 2015 7:17:53 GMT -5
Your mantra is limited. I've seen no evidence of you letting go of any of it...yet. You assumed and projected that assumption on the target of your dislike.. it's what you do.. perhaps, perhaps not.
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