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Post by laughter on Sept 15, 2015 12:22:20 GMT -5
In seeing/saying One there are two. This is only a convenience for knowing, nothing to write home from prison about. It is mind that knows isn't it? So how can mind write home if it doesn't know where home is? Knower/known is the same type of dichotomy as experiener/experienced. Mind knows nothing, as there is only knowing. What mind writes home about is the finger, not the Moon. Just drop the letter in any mailbox. It's sort of like writing to Santa Claus. Any old address will do, as long as it has "North Pole" in it somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 13:11:50 GMT -5
Have you brought ticket to the Andaman Islands yet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 16:19:32 GMT -5
It is mind that knows isn't it? So how can mind write home if it doesn't know where home is? Knower/known is the same type of dichotomy as experiener/experienced. Mind knows nothing, as there is only knowing. What mind writes home about is the finger, not the Moon. Just drop the letter in any mailbox. It's sort of like writing to Santa Claus. Any old address will do, as long as it has "North Pole" in it somewhere. The objective existence of the Universe, which includes fingers and a moon IS mind. Knowing is your experience, but it is your experience because there really IS something to Know, it is mind. Without mind there is only the experience of the absence of mind to know, isn't it?
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Post by jay17 on Sept 15, 2015 16:32:33 GMT -5
So, would you say THIS that know's taking a shower, and going to meet some people for dinner; the entire creation, as it is being observed through the sense organs, knows it is an upside down perception? THIS that knows when it's time to take a shower also knows that people often think too much. Or maybe you do not like the paths of thought source is on and seeking you to join in the exploration, that those paths deviate from the well worn ones you like, the ones you use to navigate reality with, and so you choose to classify source as a person who thinks too much. Which could be interpreted as a negative re-enforcement action to influence source to cease venturing down those paths, or as i said, an expression you do not like those paths and thus you respond with a negative judgement. What i always find interesting is when a person claims the other is doing too much or not enough of something, that they base those judgements comparatively against their own state, that somehow one's own state or how one rolls is considered\believed to be the correct one and anything different has to be incorrect. While it seems to me to be empirically true that source is thinking, i do not see the same can be said about your claim it's too much. For who sets the universally accepted level of what it not enough, too much and just the right amount of thinking...i nominate Goldilocks. Personally, i have never suffered from an excess of contemplation, though i have suffered from not enough, when i have acted on incorrect conclusions. I like how Buddha put it... "Right view, right aim, right speech, right action, right living, right effort, right mindfulness, right contemplation" - Buddha
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 16:39:55 GMT -5
Well, ZD believes that 'THIS' is what understands or answers questions that it either understands or pretends not to understand. He believes it is 'THIS' that takes showers and goes out to meet friends, and not the mind that believes that showers and friends to meet actually exist out there in an objective world... As some use the term here, 'THIS' is all there is, so it can't be something else doing THAT. Mind is a process that THIS engages sometimes. It's funny to me that 'THIS' can't be known by mind, but mind is utterly convinced that mind isn't it....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 22:42:47 GMT -5
Knower/known is the same type of dichotomy as experiener/experienced. Mind knows nothing, as there is only knowing. What mind writes home about is the finger, not the Moon. Just drop the letter in any mailbox. It's sort of like writing to Santa Claus. Any old address will do, as long as it has "North Pole" in it somewhere. The objective existence of the Universe, which includes fingers and a moon IS mind.Knowing is your experience, but it is your experience because there really IS something to Know, it is mind. Without mind there is only the experience of the absence of mind to know, isn't it? What's the connection between objective universe and mind?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 22:44:24 GMT -5
As some use the term here, 'THIS' is all there is, so it can't be something else doing THAT. Mind is a process that THIS engages sometimes. It's funny to me that 'THIS' can't be known by mind, but mind is utterly convinced that mind isn't it.... This 'THIS' is creating the mind, are you aware of that?
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Post by jay17 on Sept 15, 2015 23:31:51 GMT -5
I don't understand this question, nor the last question for that matter, and I have no idea what the phrase "upside-down perception" means. When a convo becomes too convoluted or unclear, I lose interest. Sorry. So you don't even understand the question but you answered,Isn't it? That's what I keep saying, you are only ready to answer, you are not ready to hear what people say here! The above incident is one of the clue! (i was writing this post right after my last one, when i was called away for half a day) It seems to me zendancer's cup is full...full with Advaita philosophy, of which he is entitled to have and i do not condemn him for. Everyone is entitled to hold any ideas they choose to, believe whatever they want is absolute truth. But just like in my thread about inner healing and the analogy derived from observing the birds in flight that morning, zendancer came in and corrected me, pointing out that my conclusions were wrong as they did not align with his Advaita philosophy...i then pointed out that my post had nothing to do with Advaita, but he could not see this because in his mindtank, everything gets filtered through the Advaita philosophy because to him it is not a philosophy, it is how reality is. It seems to me that due to zendancer being full of Advaita, he will have trouble hearing anything else, If it's not about Advaita or he perceives it's challenging his beliefs\way of life, has no interest in it or he seeks to express it is wrong or the other is wrong for engaging in such things. Everyone has their personal take on reality, their preferences for some thing and biases against others...so it does not adversely affect me when i speak with others if there is a disagreement or clash or if they show no interest in the things i express because i understand the basics of why we humans behave as we do in those situations. If you have reasoned that zendancer does not engage in certain topics, is not interested or is dismissive or critical, then simply do not engage with him with those subjects. It seems pretty straight forward to me...if you do not rez with an individual, simply let them be and go interact with people you do get on with. ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! You seem to me to be quite upset about zendancer's behavior(real or your interpretation of it), and i understand your need to vent, your disrespectful\abusive\incompassionate comments about him. However, in regards to your conclusion something is unfortunate, you have listed a number of negative attributes about zendancer...can you do the same for your behavior, comments and attitude toward him or others that offend you? For wouldn't it also be unfortunate to have a state of being that can be so offended and antagonistic towards others just because of their character traits and\or personal preferences that you think are unhelpful. How can you help make the world a better place for all by helping people that you perceive need it, by helping them develop themselves to be a more positive influence in the world, when you yourself are expressing so much negativity towards others because you are adversely disturbed by them? If you desire to leave zendancer to die with his ignorance, and you perceive he is ignorant of some issues, that is your choice of course, but what is more important is your(our) own self awareness, our own journey, our own development towards being a positive influence\example to our fellow human beings, the kinfolk of our species. What about your potential ignorance of elements of your being, your attitude and behavior towards others gopal. Shouldn't this be everyone's first task on the list, sorting oneself out first before telling others what they need to do, or criticizing and condemning others for their flaws, weaknesses, mistakes and unloving behavior while we have our own that are potentially just as bad. Me, i do not get along with zendancer that well, nowhere near as bad as enigma, Reefs, Envy Adams and a few others who have decided to cease interacting with me, but we still don't get on well due to vastly different mindtank programs, but i am not offended by those i don't get along with, i am not hurt by their different beliefs or any negative words they may express about me, so i will have to decline in joining with you in leaving him to die. There's a quote...i don't know the author... "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I may not get on with some people, but i have sorted enough of myself out now that i figured out(healed my own wounds\resolved my own dysfunctions) how to love and respect them to the best of my current ability, for they are equal to me and those i do get along with...i just don't hang out with them much due to our differences and the subsequent clashes that occur when we do chat. But if they were in trouble, i surely would not let them die or suffer needlessly. I have discovered a better state of being to have that does not have to hate those that i do not agree with or like elements of their being. Last quote...from here... "Most of us are acutely aware of our own struggles and we are preoccupied with our own problems. We sympathize with ourselves because we see our own difficulties so clearly. But Ian MacLaren noted wisely, “Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are "fighting a hard battle.” "
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 0:16:50 GMT -5
So you don't even understand the question but you answered,Isn't it? That's what I keep saying, you are only ready to answer, you are not ready to hear what people say here! The above incident is one of the clue! (i was writing this post right after my last one, when i was called away for half a day) It seems to me zendancer's cup is full...full with Advaita philosophy, of which he is entitled to have and i do not condemn him for. Everyone is entitled to hold any ideas they choose to, believe whatever they want is absolute truth. But just like in my thread about inner healing and the analogy derived from observing the birds in flight that morning, zendancer came in and corrected me, pointing out that my conclusions were wrong as they did not align with his Advaita philosophy...i then pointed out that my post had nothing to do with Advaita, but he could not see this because in his mindtank, everything gets filtered through the Advaita philosophy because to him it is not a philosophy, it is how reality is. It seems to me that due to zendancer being full of Advaita, he will have trouble hearing anything else, If it's not about Advaita or he perceives it's challenging his beliefs\way of life, has no interest in it or he seeks to express it is wrong or the other is wrong for engaging in such things. Everyone has their personal take on reality, their preferences for some thing and biases against others...so it does not adversely affect me when i speak with others if there is a disagreement or clash or if they show no interest in the things i express because i understand the basics of why we humans behave as we do in those situations. If you have reasoned that zendancer does not engage in certain topics, is not interested or is dismissive or critical, then simply do not engage with him with those subjects. It seems pretty straight forward to me...if you do not rez with an individual, simply let them be and go interact with people you do get on with. ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! You seem to me to be quite upset about zendancer's behavior(real or your interpretation of it), and i understand your need to vent, your disrespectful\abusive\incompassionate comments about him. However, in regards to your conclusion something is unfortunate, you have listed a number of negative attributes about zendancer...can you do the same for your behavior, comments and attitude toward him or others that offend you? For wouldn't it also be unfortunate to have a state of being that can be so offended and antagonistic towards others just because of their character traits and\or personal preferences that you think are unhelpful. How can you help make the world a better place for all by helping people that you perceive need it, by helping them develop themselves to be a more positive influence in the world, when you yourself are expressing so much negativity towards others because you are adversely disturbed by them? If you desire to leave zendancer to die with his ignorance, and you perceive he is ignorant of some issues, that is your choice of course, but what is more important is your(our) own self awareness, our own journey, our own development towards being a positive influence\example to our fellow human beings, the kinfolk of our species. What about your potential ignorance of elements of your being, your attitude and behavior towards others gopal. Shouldn't this be everyone's first task on the list, sorting oneself out first before telling others what they need to do, or criticizing and condemning others for their flaws, weaknesses, mistakes and unloving behavior while we have our own that are potentially just as bad. Me, i do not get along with zendancer that well, nowhere near as bad as enigma, Reefs, Envy Adams and a few others who have decided to cease interacting with me, but we still don't get on well due to vastly different mindtank programs, but i am not offended by those i don't get along with, i am not hurt by their different beliefs or any negative words they may express about me, so i will have to decline in joining with you in leaving him to die. There's a quote...i don't know the author... "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I may not get on with some people, but i have sorted enough of myself out now that i figured out(healed my own wounds\resolved my own dysfunctions) how to love and respect them to the best of my current ability, for they are equal to me and those i do get along with...i just don't hang out with them much due to our differences and the subsequent clashes that occur when we do chat. But if they were in trouble, i surely would not let them die or suffer needlessly. I have discovered a better state of being to have that does not have to hate those that i do not agree with or like elements of their being. Last quote...from here... "Most of us are acutely aware of our own struggles and we are preoccupied with our own problems. We sympathize with ourselves because we see our own difficulties so clearly. But Ian MacLaren noted wisely, “Let us be kind to one another, for most of us are "fighting a hard battle.” " You are completely mistaken me, Actually my focus is creative, My pleasant conversation with people always attracts this negative side with negative people, my focus would set these people like zendancer and some other here to argue against me or write against me, That's important! If you look into my conversation from the beginning, it would have been very clear to you! It has been the case from the beginning, Zendancer has nothing to do! My focus creates the ignorance of Zendancer as well, Zendancer is very important here to perform my role! My focus is creative!
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Post by runstill on Sept 16, 2015 1:14:22 GMT -5
Just a random thought... I start trying to imagine what it would be like to be "God", if individual life forms are illusions, and it can be kind of weird ... I know, I know, I can't imagine, but just the thought of some kind of singular, eternal, universal mind/consciousness -- alone, forever -- is ... not sure the word... scary, disturbing, depressing ... ? Any body else ever freak themselves out with a thought like that? The thinker of thought can only have thoughts/feelings of aloneness and fear.True nature has no need for thought for it is everything that is perceived.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 11:35:42 GMT -5
The objective existence of the Universe, which includes fingers and a moon IS mind.Knowing is your experience, but it is your experience because there really IS something to Know, it is mind. Without mind there is only the experience of the absence of mind to know, isn't it? What's the connection between objective universe and mind? The existence of an objective Universe out there takes place in Mind, is Mind.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 11:41:20 GMT -5
It's funny to me that 'THIS' can't be known by mind, but mind is utterly convinced that mind isn't it.... This 'THIS' is creating the mind, are you aware of that? Well, mind thinks that...mind is the creative force in the Universe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 12:02:31 GMT -5
What's the connection between objective universe and mind? The existence of an objective Universe out there takes place in Mind, is Mind. Yeah correct! There is no universe out there, the reason is, seeing itself creates the object!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 12:06:07 GMT -5
This 'THIS' is creating the mind, are you aware of that? Well, mind thinks that...mind is the creative force in the Universe. Mind is movement of thought Consciousness is the looker and creator Mind is being looked and created by Consciousness!
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Post by steven on Sept 16, 2015 13:47:57 GMT -5
The Infinite and the finite are one and the same, so whatever we do is what the Infinite does. Lift a finger, and the entire cosmos moves. So, would you say that you see your thinking as God's thinking? Yes and then I forgot, and moved into the spaciousness of 'I don't know'
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