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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2015 17:21:38 GMT -5
My questions are referencing your post... spiritualteachers.proboards.com/post/286535So when you use the concept "THIS", are you not talking about the Impersonal, or Cosmic, or the Absolute mind? The term upside-down perception refers to the individuated, or personal, or finite mind that thinks there is a real objective world existing out there. It seemed to me that you were conflating the minds like Tzu does, when he says both minds, finite and infinite, are functioning simultaneously and he can choose which mind he wants for his perception. No, my POV is not the same as Tzu's. From my POV the finite and the infinite are one and the same. When I use the term "THIS," I'm referring to everything--to the totality of all being, which is alive, intelligent, unified, infinite, and manifests "just like this." Third mountain is simple. When it's time to drink a cup of coffee, drink a cup of coffee. When it's time to go to sleep, go to sleep. This is how the Infinite manifests. Is there an objective world? My coffee after lunch was hot and tasty. Is consciousness all there is? There isn't a cloud in the sky right now. Is there a finite and an infinite mind functioning simultaneously? The trees outside my window are green. First mountain: what we call "the concensus trancestate" of space, time, causality, volition, selfhood, things, qualities, etc. (mountains are mountains) Second mountain: oneness (mountains are NOT mountains) Third mountain: with no attachment to ideas, everything is "just like this" (mountains are once again mountains) Well, Tzu also says the distinction of a finite mind and infinite mind is arbitrary and that there is just mind. But the distinction is not irrelevant in terms of perception. 8 billion minds act and think as if there is a real objective world out there that exists. But "THIS" mind, is really the only thinker, isn't it?
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Post by zendancer on Sept 14, 2015 17:43:13 GMT -5
No, my POV is not the same as Tzu's. From my POV the finite and the infinite are one and the same. When I use the term "THIS," I'm referring to everything--to the totality of all being, which is alive, intelligent, unified, infinite, and manifests "just like this." Third mountain is simple. When it's time to drink a cup of coffee, drink a cup of coffee. When it's time to go to sleep, go to sleep. This is how the Infinite manifests. Is there an objective world? My coffee after lunch was hot and tasty. Is consciousness all there is? There isn't a cloud in the sky right now. Is there a finite and an infinite mind functioning simultaneously? The trees outside my window are green. First mountain: what we call "the concensus trancestate" of space, time, causality, volition, selfhood, things, qualities, etc. (mountains are mountains) Second mountain: oneness (mountains are NOT mountains) Third mountain: with no attachment to ideas, everything is "just like this" (mountains are once again mountains) Well, Tzu also says the distinction of a finite mind and infinite mind is arbitrary and that there is just mind. But the distinction is not irrelevant in terms of perception. 8 billion minds act and think as if there is a real objective world out there that exists. But "THIS" mind, is really the only thinker, isn't it? Yes. It's a unified whole. Nothing separate. The same intelligence is manifesting throughout what we call "the cosmos."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2015 17:59:46 GMT -5
Well, Tzu also says the distinction of a finite mind and infinite mind is arbitrary and that there is just mind. But the distinction is not irrelevant in terms of perception. 8 billion minds act and think as if there is a real objective world out there that exists. But "THIS" mind, is really the only thinker, isn't it? Yes. It's a unified whole. Nothing separate. The same intelligence is manifesting throughout what we call "the cosmos."So, would you say that although "THIS" says that, "THIS" mind can't know that because "THIS" can only know objects and "THIS" mind is not an object?
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Post by zendancer on Sept 14, 2015 18:39:36 GMT -5
Yes. It's a unified whole. Nothing separate. The same intelligence is manifesting throughout what we call "the cosmos." So, would you say that although "THIS" says that, "THIS" mind can't know that because "THIS" can only know objects and "THIS" mind is not an object? I may not be clear about what you're asking. This body/mind has had particular realizations and experiences that allow it to make the claim that was made. Other body/minds may or may not have had the same kinds of realizations and experiences that establish a reference for the claim that was made.
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Post by enigma on Sept 14, 2015 21:13:04 GMT -5
So you don't even understand the question but you answered,Isn't it? That's what I keep saying, you are only ready to answer, you are not ready to hear what people say here! The above incident is one of the clue! Well, ZD believes that 'THIS' is what understands or answers questions that it either understands or pretends not to understand. He believes it is 'THIS' that takes showers and goes out to meet friends, and not the mind that believes that showers and friends to meet actually exist out there in an objective world... As some use the term here, 'THIS' is all there is, so it can't be something else doing THAT. Mind is a process that THIS engages sometimes.
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Post by enigma on Sept 14, 2015 21:16:11 GMT -5
Well, ZD believes that 'THIS' is what understands or answers questions that it either understands or pretends not to understand. He believes it is 'THIS' that takes showers and goes out to meet friends, and not the mind that believes that showers and friends to meet actually exist out there in an objective world... ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! But that we were all so ignorant.
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Post by enigma on Sept 14, 2015 21:32:19 GMT -5
The Infinite and the finite are one and the same, so whatever we do is what the Infinite does. Lift a finger, and the entire cosmos moves. I think RobertK's original question was about the infinite's experience of itself AS the infinite (i.e. outside the boundaries of all of it's finite expressions). Is there 'an infinite' to have such an experience? Isn't experience finite by nature?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2015 23:09:13 GMT -5
ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! But that we were all so ignorant. what?
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Post by relinquish on Sept 14, 2015 23:11:09 GMT -5
I think RobertK's original question was about the infinite's experience of itself AS the infinite (i.e. outside the boundaries of all of it's finite expressions). Is there 'an infinite' to have such an experience? Isn't experience finite by nature? Is it? You feel (in my own words) that finiteness is the MEANS by which Infinity experiences itself. I feel that finiteness is the EFFECT of Infinity experiencing itself. Of course, cause and effect are really not two after all. They are really The Same. Infinity has no experience of a finite effect that is not itself, OR of an infinite cause that IS itself. The experience OF Infinity BY Infinity is all that is ever truly 'going on'. The experience can only be known by being experienced. It can't be accurately translated into words. I have no doubt many here know exactly what I'm getting at (not least of all you, E).
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Post by laughter on Sept 15, 2015 1:57:11 GMT -5
Yes. It's a unified whole. Nothing separate. The same intelligence is manifesting throughout what we call "the cosmos." So, would you say that although "THIS" says that, "THIS" mind can't know that because "THIS" can only know objects and "THIS" mind is not an object? In seeing/saying One there are two. This is only a convenience for knowing, nothing to write home from prison about.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 2:51:36 GMT -5
Well, ZD believes that 'THIS' is what understands or answers questions that it either understands or pretends not to understand. He believes it is 'THIS' that takes showers and goes out to meet friends, and not the mind that believes that showers and friends to meet actually exist out there in an objective world... ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! Have you brought ticket to the Andaman Islands yet?
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Post by laughter on Sept 15, 2015 3:37:45 GMT -5
ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! Have you brought ticket to the Andaman Islands yet?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 4:27:51 GMT -5
Well, ZD believes that 'THIS' is what understands or answers questions that it either understands or pretends not to understand. He believes it is 'THIS' that takes showers and goes out to meet friends, and not the mind that believes that showers and friends to meet actually exist out there in an objective world... ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! You think that any silly question deserves an answer. You and source think too much. But wait, haven't you said that source knows nothing and yet here you are enlisting her as an ally with her meaningless questions as well and attacking ZD's "ignorance". You have both yet to die the death of mind that will release you of your ignorance. I wouldn't worry about ZD's demise. He has articulated very clearly to me where he is at. His loss of interest which you see as evasive just demonstrates what he has left behind and you haven't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 4:30:50 GMT -5
ZD is funny man, I never take his words seriously, because he hasn't realized anything bigger, He is not even ready to listen what others say! It's all unfortunate! If you ask him some question which penetrates his nonsense idea, then he would say mind can't answer this, ZD is one of the funny person here, I would rather argue with some people those who really have some valuable experience in their life which can be comparable to my Life! So Let's leave this ZD to die with his ignorance! You think that any silly question deserves an answer. You and source think too much. But wait, haven't you said that source knows nothing and yet here you are enlisting her as an ally with her meaningless questions as well and attacking ZD's "ignorance". You have both yet to die the death of mind that will release you of your ignorance. I wouldn't worry about ZD's demise. He has demonstrated very clearly to me where he is at. His loss of interest which you see as evasive just demonstrates what he has left behind and you haven't. You are absolutely correct, even the question she raised is not understandable to me as well, that question is clearly not understandable, There is nothing wrong when ZD says he hasn't understood the question, but he should have immediately replied to her post, but he was replying something or explaining something to her, later he is replying that last to last question he did not understand, That means ZD always like to answer no matter whether he understood the question or not! This is not the first time I have noticed this, but this is the first time he did it in such a way that it became blatantly clear!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2015 11:03:31 GMT -5
So, would you say that although "THIS" says that, "THIS" mind can't know that because "THIS" can only know objects and "THIS" mind is not an object? In seeing/saying One there are two. This is only a convenience for knowing, nothing to write home from prison about. It is mind that knows isn't it? So how can mind write home if it doesn't know where home is?
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