|
Post by earnest on Jun 20, 2015 18:16:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jun 20, 2015 19:26:14 GMT -5
Hi SDP. Quick question. Given your worldview, do you feel there is any true place for serious praise or blame in reality? The answer that most spiritual teachers would say is no. But I don't know. I'd take them dudes with a grain of salt man. Hey Joe, you are the rare exception of looking almost exactly like I'd envisioned you from your posts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2015 20:01:20 GMT -5
What does it mean to raise ones consciousness? Are there technologies that one can use to raise ones consciousness, like stones, crystals, prayers, geometric symbols, blessed objects, ashes of enlightened beings, etc? Is it easier to get enlightened after one raises their consciousness? Thanks I speak of purifying a lot so there are no surprises on that score when it comes to raising one's consciousness . Perhaps it's not really consciousness that alters butt one's vibrational frequency that is associated with consciousness . Feeling happy compared to sad can be measured within ourselves regarding our vibrations and doing certain practices can raise the energies butt what comes from within stands the test of time . Forget about time, put those feathers from off your head onto your waist. **This Has Arisen**
|
|
|
Post by freejoy on Jun 21, 2015 1:04:59 GMT -5
The answer that most spiritual teachers would say is no. But I don't know. I'd take them dudes with a grain of salt man. Hey Joe, you are the rare exception of looking almost exactly like I'd envisioned you from your posts. I try to only believe what I can see myself. This body seems to function well. My vehicle they say.
|
|
|
Post by steven on Jun 21, 2015 1:26:54 GMT -5
Hi Joe
How are you?
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Jun 21, 2015 4:09:06 GMT -5
I speak of purifying a lot so there are no surprises on that score when it comes to raising one's consciousness . Perhaps it's not really consciousness that alters butt one's vibrational frequency that is associated with consciousness . Feeling happy compared to sad can be measured within ourselves regarding our vibrations and doing certain practices can raise the energies butt what comes from within stands the test of time . Forget about time, put those feathers from off your head onto your waist. **This Has Arisen** What has the rearrangement of my feathers got to do with time and vibrational frequencies that are associated with consciousness .
|
|
|
Post by tenka on Jun 21, 2015 8:12:52 GMT -5
I read a piece of text a while back and I resonated with it and it went something along the lines of, What we are is likened to the sun and our awareness is likened to the suns rays . Consciousness is likened to a window for our awareness to shine through . What is perceived via the light shining through consciousness is the self . So depending on how clear one's window is, will relate to how clearly one can be in awareness of what we are that appears to be . So from that perspective is it about raising consciousness or is it more to do with cleaning windows .
|
|
|
Post by freejoy on Jun 21, 2015 9:40:01 GMT -5
I really don't know exactly. It seems I'm surrounded by negative energies showing up as mostly relatives. It's hard to explain without going into probably a lot of unnecessary details. It also seems like whatever environment I'm in I take on qualities of that environment. Not sure thou. Not sure even if one can really define things in terms of negative and positive. There are children involved and because of my understandings it seems it makes me responsible to do something about it. For example, yesterday one of the children got a whipping by the mother. She was whipping the child (eight years old) with her hand and I thought it was actually abuse. I don't believe in whipping children in anyway much less the way she was out of anger. I feel the children are being damaged and are already damaged. When I try to do something I'm pulled into all this negative energy. I'm not to concerned about being pulled into negative energy but I don't want to become part of the problem either. It's like the parents are children themselves. They all call each other names. Their all so selfish with each other. As far as enlightenment goes. If reincarnation is true I probably didn't come here to be enlightened but somehow all the circumstances came together in a way that led to me becoming aware of this possibility. And I have had enough actual experiences for me to realize such a state does exist so that is good. I'm sure the mind is trying to protect itself with these ideas too so I try not to give them to much credence. It's just I don't fit the enlightenment profile as I haven't come into this world with many blessings, not a particularly good family, or looks, or money, or brains. Maybe next time. Who knows maybe this time. Anyway, I've been trying to raise the consciousness of these people here by occasionally watching programs, although not exactly about enlightenment (as they would never sit through a discussion about that), but programs that would possibly show them a better way, in the process I might actually learn something that helps me too. One of the programs was this guy: I don't think this guy is a lier but who knows. My mother has been ill lately and concerned about her health so I thought this was a good opportunity to sneak in some spiritual stuff :). But what he said I found very interesting. He recounts a story where he seen a dog that got run over with its guts hanging out a was healed, he said he actually seen the dogs body skin tissue lace itself back together, guts go back and the dog jumps up completely well again. This is where I learned about the things I stated this tread about. That's the state of the union. :)
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jun 21, 2015 9:53:02 GMT -5
After reading this thread I came to think of this article by Scott Kiloby on post SR and the notion of being "done". ... My ongoing inquiry, my muse is really only this these days: in what ways am I making such a division, pulling myself more and more into a lonely place? I think I'd rather embrace all opposites, all divisions. There seems to be room for all of it, for the done and not done and every other division. And isn't that what Oneness is anyway? I don't know. I refuse to answer the question. I will just look instead, for answering the question might just isolate me into some corner and make me want to withdraw from everyone and everything. Mr. Done, if you are reading this, I love you! Come back and play!" Thank you Jazz. That was a beautiful piece of sharing from Kiloby, beautifully articulated.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 21, 2015 10:22:48 GMT -5
So what is a point of entry here, discovering when one is less conscious and when one is more conscious? One thing is to recognize when you are operating from auto-pilot. At some point throughout the day, you can come to see that you were operating on auto-pilot or you are now operating on auto-pilot. Were is usually the case, to catch yourself on auto-pilot is a little more difficult. Until one practices some form of meditation, we usually have a sense of I/me that lives in the head between the eyes. This I/me consists of a series of thoughts, primarily, feelings/emotions, and then bodily actions. But these are merely recordings in the mind/body/brain. So the sense of I/me always comes from the past. Buddha had a great teaching called fourfold mindfulness. Thich Nhat Hanh has a good book on this, Transformation and Healing: Sutra on the Four Establishments of Mindfulness. An early great book on this is The Heart of Buddhist Meditation by Nyanaponika Thera. But this goes all the way back to Buddha and the Satipatthana Sutra. So what are the four establishments? The body, feelings/emotions, the mind (thoughts) and mind-objects, which include internal and external sensing (page 125 of the Thera book). So how is one mindful of thoughts, feelings/emotions, bodily actions and sensations? Thera says the means is Bare Attention (yes, he uses capital letters). So what is bare attention? This is just what ZD calls ATA-T. So, why ATA-T? My first taste of operating on auto-pilot was about the age of eight or nine. I recall this dentist we went to, beside his building were about thirty signs, one every parking space along the main road, every sign said No Parking This Side. I remember as we left, my mind read every sign, No Parking This Side, No Parking This Side, etc., etc., etc., etc., ..........it was quite annoying, why did my mind refuse not-reading the signs? Does you mind ever get stuck on a song and it keeps playing the song over and over.......?......, also very annoying. That's a form of auto-pilot, but auto-pilot is much more subtle also. So, welcome to your mind, that's what the mind does, it plays recordings over and over. So you can either be the mind-recordings, feeling/emotional recordings and bodily action recordings, or you can be the awareness and (bare) attention which is separate from the recordings. Attention/awareness is the living 'cutting edge', recordings are dead things. Now, it can sometimes get pretty boring, this bare attending. So this is where evaluation must come in. Eventually you come to see that you may not know what you really are, but you know you'd rather be the bare attention than the thoughts, feelings/emotions and bodily actions, on auto-pilot. Because you eventually begin to see that every sense of I that you are, that you think you are or thought you were, is merely left-overs, past recordings. I would say one has to become disgusted with being on auto-pilot. And then you chose to be attention/awareness and not the thoughts/feelings/emotions/bodily actions, you see these are but smoke and mirrors, an illusory sense of I/me. Generally speaking I agree that subjective investigation can be transformative, and I'd recommend it to anyone, anytime, in any condition. Specifically with regard to what you've written, what I've found from subjective investigation is that not all autopilot programs are created equal, and the fact is that the differential is revealed by the question, what is watching? That question, "what is watching?", is, of course, self-inquiry, and has no mind-answer. Now, as the investigation is subjective, comparing notes is of course ultimately problematic, and this is compounded by the fact that there's no way to directly communicate, mind-to-mind, what self-inquiry reveals. I've found that two ways to bridge this gap are through either poetry or describing direct experience. Now, for example, The best example I have to offer on my point that not all autopilot programs are created equal is a story I've related on the forum a few times about one day on the slopes. Now, if anyone's interested in it I'll repeat it, but we share a common experience that might illustrate what I mean: when you wire a residential 120 outlet, do you think to yourself "black to brass and save yer ass"? .. or, instead, rather than consciously and deliberately connecting the black wire to the brass screw, does it instead come naturally as a conditioned action? The bottom line is that in any given instant of subjective investigation there are only two possibilities: a split mind or not. It's true that this is a logical abstraction, but discerning the differential between the two has nothing to do with logic. "What is watching" can either be what it is that you really are, or it can just be another thread of the thinking/feeling mind.Now, I depart here with the SR "people" on what happens next. If your center of gravity/default position has totally shifted from I/me to awareness/attention, then yes, I can see why "practice" is no longer necessary. You have essentially become the practice. But it seems that this is not always the case, that thoughts/feelings/emotions and bodily actions still hang around annoyingly. If this is the case then I'd say it's necessary to keep juggling, keep coming back to attention/awareness. Correct attention/awareness builds up a field of energy, but if one doesn't 'maintain' living through awareness/attention, this field dissipates. Now some say this distinction between thoughts/feelings/etc. and attention/awareness creates a split mind. I simply disagree. And what is this concrete "anchor" (anchor in a good sense, as holding one firmly, secure) discussed previously, this something which can keep the grounding? It's one of the 'objects' of fourfold mindfulness Buddha taught about. Which one? (Don't guess). It is one means of 'getting out of the head'. I/me is an anchor in the bad sense, a ball and chain. So to raise one's consciousness, is to first see this operating from auto-pilot. Then maybe some day the ball & chain are cut loose. Yeah I agree that post-SR practice can reveal and alter conditioning, although I see this, similar to SR itself, as playing out in as many particular ways are there are people. Some peeps might still practice, others might not. We could go on from there and extrapolate about how for one dude there might be some really gnarly conditioning left over that could lead to a big post-SR shift while for others that conditioning either was never instant or was dealt with pre-SR. We could speculate as to how for some folks there might be a stronger pull into "further" than others, although I'd opine that a taxonomy of that situation could easily and quickly devolve into silly mind-stuff. One opinion that I would hold though, is that expectations as to some sort of final static state are always likely subject to disappointment. The problem as it relates to the dialog on the forum is that we can't agree to disagree on our differing opinions on what SR refers to. I find this kinda' sad and a missed opportunity, because the dialog on post-SR practice is one that that I'm actually the most interested in presently, and one, given how it seems that more and more peeps are waking up these days, to be rather timely. I agree that not all auto-pilot programs are equal. This makes for the variety we see in peeps in life, some are closer to "reality" some further away. It has to do with the content of the programming. And you are dead on about the differential, most of the "watching" at least in the beginning, is from some aspect of the conditioned, so it really isn't watching. I think realizing this is really the beginning of finding the unconditioned. Good points. Your outlet example, there are two aspects to this. Some stuff is just learned by rote. It's good to understand that the multiplication table is really a for of adding, but you just learn it, drill it into your mind (I don't remember when, what's that? 3rd or 4th grade?) I taught my new helpers, this is just the way it is, you have to do it this way, and then I would check everything they did until I knew they knew. But later when they know what they are doing, the second challenge is you can go to what I called la-la land, go completely on auto-pilot, and then you can't count on quality, getting it done right. Later when I checked a house out I would find stuff done wrong from a guy I knew knew what they were doing. And I'd show them, and say, you were in la-la land when you did this, I have to have it right, you can burn down a house if stuff isn't perfect. So you can do stuff on auto-pilot, but there has to be a certain level of awareness there to make sure you're getting it right. But that's one thing, training people. I tried to always use work for practice, so I worked from both levels, letting the mind/body do what it knew but atst watch what the mind/body was doing. Watching would be a secondary level. (I never tried to teach anyone else that worked for me, this). And I could go in and out of the watching, sometimes 'out' for hours. I'm going to get back to ZD on the question of flow eventually, I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page on this. I agree that ego is absent in flow, but I think the watcher can be present. I'm not sure ZD would agree with this, I've been working on formulating a question...... Does this make sense? And there were times when one absolutely couldn't trust auto-pilot, working stuff hot (we weren't supposed to), and working high, like on an A-Frame ladder or off scaffolding, or standing on top of a 12-ft ladder. Anyway, I think here on ST's split-mind is mentioned sometimes where it doesn't apply. I don't consider it to be a case of split-mind to be in this secondary watching, attention or awareness. Split-mind is when you have this other "thread of thinking/feeling mind". ......................... I think, yes, there is a problem with defining SR differently. People all the time here use SR and obviously mean something different. I don't get this. But this reveals the question of practice after SR. I don't have time to go into this right now. But this might be an example of the problem here. When was the last time you practiced walking? But I also think this is a very important question. Another example that might sorta apply (or may not), why do we say that a doctor practices medicine? But basically, if there is no further, no practice necessary. But if there is a further, practice necessary.
|
|
|
Post by stardustpilgrim on Jun 21, 2015 10:45:01 GMT -5
I really don't know exactly. It seems I'm surrounded by negative energies showing up as mostly relatives. It's hard to explain without going into probably a lot of unnecessary details. It also seems like whatever environment I'm in I take on qualities of that environment. Not sure thou. Not sure even if one can really define things in terms of negative and positive. There are children involved and because of my understandings it seems it makes me responsible to do something about it. For example, yesterday one of the children got a whipping by the mother. She was whipping the child (eight years old) with her hand and I thought it was actually abuse. I don't believe in whipping children in anyway much less the way she was out of anger. I feel the children are being damaged and are already damaged. When I try to do something I'm pulled into all this negative energy. I'm not to concerned about being pulled into negative energy but I don't want to become part of the problem either. It's like the parents are children themselves. They all call each other names. Their all so selfish with each other. As far as enlightenment goes. If reincarnation is true I probably didn't come here to be enlightened but somehow all the circumstances came together in a way that led to me becoming aware of this possibility. And I have had enough actual experiences for me to realize such a state does exist so that is good. I'm sure the mind is trying to protect itself with these ideas too so I try not to give them to much credence. It's just I don't fit the enlightenment profile as I haven't come into this world with many blessings, not a particularly good family, or looks, or money, or brains. Maybe next time. Who knows maybe this time. Anyway, I've been trying to raise the consciousness of these people here by occasionally watching programs, although not exactly about enlightenment (as they would never sit through a discussion about that), but programs that would possibly show them a better way, in the process I might actually learn something that helps me too. One of the programs was this guy: I don't think this guy is a lier but who knows. My mother has been ill lately and concerned about her health so I thought this was a good opportunity to sneak in some spiritual stuff . But what he said I found very interesting. He recounts a story where he seen a dog that got run over with its guts hanging out a was healed, he said he actually seen the dogs body skin tissue lace itself back together, guts go back and the dog jumps up completely well again. This is where I learned about the things I stated this tread about. That's the state of the union. Hey freejoy, one thing about beating on kids, I don't like it either, there are better ways to discipline. Before I got married, I knew I would never spank my kids. Then I got married, and wife believed in spanking, so I had to compromise. And (former) wife also believed that kids were just supposed to do stuff or not do stuff "because I said so". It took me years to get her to come around to some good child-rearing principles. Finally, we agreed that spanking was only for deliberate disobedience. First you have a rule, if you do this, this will happen, IOW, you can't just hit the kid whenever you want to. The kid has to know consequences beforehand. She finally got this, and if the kid did something she didn't like she couldn't just hit the kid. We made a new rule, next time, if you do this, you get a spanking. ............Anyway, maybe that would help, sharing about rules and boundaries, if you do this, this is what happens, if you cross this line, this is what happens. And then the parent is not the bad guy, the kid learns that they caused the spanking by disobeying the rule. It's not fair for a kid to just get smacked around when the parent so chooses, that makes kids crazy. But better than spanking is reward for good behavior and withdrawal of privilege for incorrect behavior. My sister has four kids and they have kids. I have to bite my tongue all the time around them.........
|
|
|
Post by freejoy on Jun 21, 2015 12:45:46 GMT -5
I really don't know exactly. It seems I'm surrounded by negative energies showing up as mostly relatives. It's hard to explain without going into probably a lot of unnecessary details. It also seems like whatever environment I'm in I take on qualities of that environment. Not sure thou. Not sure even if one can really define things in terms of negative and positive. There are children involved and because of my understandings it seems it makes me responsible to do something about it. For example, yesterday one of the children got a whipping by the mother. She was whipping the child (eight years old) with her hand and I thought it was actually abuse. I don't believe in whipping children in anyway much less the way she was out of anger. I feel the children are being damaged and are already damaged. When I try to do something I'm pulled into all this negative energy. I'm not to concerned about being pulled into negative energy but I don't want to become part of the problem either. It's like the parents are children themselves. They all call each other names. Their all so selfish with each other. As far as enlightenment goes. If reincarnation is true I probably didn't come here to be enlightened but somehow all the circumstances came together in a way that led to me becoming aware of this possibility. And I have had enough actual experiences for me to realize such a state does exist so that is good. I'm sure the mind is trying to protect itself with these ideas too so I try not to give them to much credence. It's just I don't fit the enlightenment profile as I haven't come into this world with many blessings, not a particularly good family, or looks, or money, or brains. Maybe next time. Who knows maybe this time. Anyway, I've been trying to raise the consciousness of these people here by occasionally watching programs, although not exactly about enlightenment (as they would never sit through a discussion about that), but programs that would possibly show them a better way, in the process I might actually learn something that helps me too. One of the programs was this guy: I don't think this guy is a lier but who knows. My mother has been ill lately and concerned about her health so I thought this was a good opportunity to sneak in some spiritual stuff :). But what he said I found very interesting. He recounts a story where he seen a dog that got run over with its guts hanging out a was healed, he said he actually seen the dogs body skin tissue lace itself back together, guts go back and the dog jumps up completely well again. This is where I learned about the things I stated this tread about. That's the state of the union. :) Hey freejoy, one thing about beating on kids, I don't like it either, there are better ways to discipline. Before I got married, I knew I would never spank my kids. Then I got married, and wife believed in spanking, so I had to compromise. And (former) wife also believed that kids were just supposed to do stuff or not do stuff "because I said so". It took me years to get her to come around to some good child-rearing principles. Finally, we agreed that spanking was only for deliberate disobedience. First you have a rule, if you do this, this will happen, IOW, you can't just hit the kid whenever you want to. The kid has to know consequences beforehand. She finally got this, and if the kid did something she didn't like she couldn't just hit the kid. We made a new rule, next time, if you do this, you get a spanking. ............Anyway, maybe that would help, sharing about rules and boundaries, if you do this, this is what happens, if you cross this line, this is what happens. And then the parent is not the bad guy, the kid learns that they caused the spanking by disobeying the rule. It's not fair for a kid to just get smacked around when the parent so chooses, that makes kids crazy. But better than spanking is reward for good behavior and withdrawal of privilege for incorrect behavior. My sister has four kids and they have kids. I have to bite my tongue all the time around them......... There are six kids here from 3 years old to 14 years old. They get away with murder. The parents are not even remotely consistent. I suggested a weekly meeting where everyone could talk a share their views. I even had one to "hopefully" show how it could be done. I got the kids to sign "contracts" where they agreed to some rules and the consequences, that they thought would be fair and they signed the "contract". The mother was suppose to enforce the rules. The father plays videos games all his waking hours and yells at the kids if they disturb him which really bugs me. The next week we were suppose to have another meeting but some of the kids were still in bed all day because they stay up all night. During the first week none of the rules were kept or enforced. hehehe. I don't really like the word enforced. But anyway I seen where I also need to have the parents sign a contract to enforce the rules. :) I appears the only standing rule around here is for the kids to not make the parents upset enough to to cause them to whip the kids. The kids seem to know this limit pretty close so they can get away with most anything. Hell the kids smoke cigarettes at age eight on up. Even pot. I couldn't believe it. I'm talking about the parents actually roll them cigarettes and share pot with them. Now cigarettes I might can go along with because they seem to enhance the mind and extend lifespan. But the studies on pot seems to suggest that it's not healthy for a growing mind, at least in studies of mice. I don't think it's the best thing to allow children to smoke cigarettes or make that decision until they are mature. So a lot of my positionalities were exposed when I got here to say the least. I believe in allowing children the most freedom possible but my lord. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't see how the children are being hurt in the long term. But then again, it's their karma and maybe that is what they need I cant really know for sure. But the yelling , not only the kids copying the yelling of the parents but the parents themselves. So all this is "me", all this yelling, all the mess, actually all the torturing in the world and all the lovingness in the world too at some level. But this is my present location, it's in my reality if someone is getting tortured somewhere I'm not aware or that. So I think what would be the best thing for me to do. It seems I watched a enlightened person say I should just watch similar to watching thoughts float by without judgement, sort of like a fly on the wall. So that is what I've been attempting now. Or I could just get the hell out of here.
|
|
jazz
Full Member
Posts: 197
|
Post by jazz on Jun 21, 2015 12:58:29 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing freejoy. The last sentence is what I would do, but that's not a suggestion for you. Best wishes.
|
|
|
Post by andrew on Jun 21, 2015 13:40:28 GMT -5
Hey freejoy, one thing about beating on kids, I don't like it either, there are better ways to discipline. Before I got married, I knew I would never spank my kids. Then I got married, and wife believed in spanking, so I had to compromise. And (former) wife also believed that kids were just supposed to do stuff or not do stuff "because I said so". It took me years to get her to come around to some good child-rearing principles. Finally, we agreed that spanking was only for deliberate disobedience. First you have a rule, if you do this, this will happen, IOW, you can't just hit the kid whenever you want to. The kid has to know consequences beforehand. She finally got this, and if the kid did something she didn't like she couldn't just hit the kid. We made a new rule, next time, if you do this, you get a spanking. ............Anyway, maybe that would help, sharing about rules and boundaries, if you do this, this is what happens, if you cross this line, this is what happens. And then the parent is not the bad guy, the kid learns that they caused the spanking by disobeying the rule. It's not fair for a kid to just get smacked around when the parent so chooses, that makes kids crazy. But better than spanking is reward for good behavior and withdrawal of privilege for incorrect behavior. My sister has four kids and they have kids. I have to bite my tongue all the time around them......... There are six kids here from 3 years old to 14 years old. They get away with murder. The parents are not even remotely consistent. I suggested a weekly meeting where everyone could talk a share their views. I even had one to "hopefully" show how it could be done. I got the kids to sign "contracts" where they agreed to some rules and the consequences, that they thought would be fair and they signed the "contract". The mother was suppose to enforce the rules. The father plays videos games all his waking hours and yells at the kids if they disturb him which really bugs me. The next week we were suppose to have another meeting but some of the kids were still in bed all day because they stay up all night. During the first week none of the rules were kept or enforced. hehehe. I don't really like the word enforced. But anyway I seen where I also need to have the parents sign a contract to enforce the rules. I appears the only standing rule around here is for the kids to not make the parents upset enough to to cause them to whip the kids. The kids seem to know this limit pretty close so they can get away with most anything. Hell the kids smoke cigarettes at age eight on up. Even pot. I couldn't believe it. I'm talking about the parents actually roll them cigarettes and share pot with them. Now cigarettes I might can go along with because they seem to enhance the mind and extend lifespan. But the studies on pot seems to suggest that it's not healthy for a growing mind, at least in studies of mice. I don't think it's the best thing to allow children to smoke cigarettes or make that decision until they are mature. So a lot of my positionalities were exposed when I got here to say the least. I believe in allowing children the most freedom possible but my lord. It wouldn't be so bad if I didn't see how the children are being hurt in the long term. But then again, it's their karma and maybe that is what they need I cant really know for sure. But the yelling , not only the kids copying the yelling of the parents but the parents themselves. So all this is "me", all this yelling, all the mess, actually all the torturing in the world and all the lovingness in the world too at some level. But this is my present location, it's in my reality if someone is getting tortured somewhere I'm not aware or that. So I think what would be the best thing for me to do. It seems I watched a enlightened person say I should just watch similar to watching thoughts float by without judgement, sort of like a fly on the wall. So that is what I've been attempting now. Or I could just get the hell out of here. If you are a guest you have very little say in the matter in my opinion, unless the violence became so intense that it just wouldn't be right to ignore it. However, if it's your house, then you are in a position to make rules. You have to have a 'bargaining chip' in a way, unless they state they are unhappy with the situation and want your help sorting it all out. Sounds like the Mom and Dad aren't dealing with the dynamics well, but aren't interested in change yet. What you could do in the meantime is a load of Ho'oponopono on your own, 'directing' it towards the family. Start from the position that you are responsible for creating this situation, therefore you can heal it within you. Then say 'I'm sorry', 'I love you', 'please forgive me', 'thank you'. Do it as much as you can each day. Lead by example in the house too. Things will change over a period, could be rough at times though. Alternatively, you could just get the hell out. All depends. I like what you attempted to do with the meeting/agreement/rules though.
|
|
|
Post by laughter on Jun 21, 2015 14:20:48 GMT -5
Generally speaking I agree that subjective investigation can be transformative, and I'd recommend it to anyone, anytime, in any condition. Specifically with regard to what you've written, what I've found from subjective investigation is that not all autopilot programs are created equal, and the fact is that the differential is revealed by the question, what is watching? That question, "what is watching?", is, of course, self-inquiry, and has no mind-answer. Now, as the investigation is subjective, comparing notes is of course ultimately problematic, and this is compounded by the fact that there's no way to directly communicate, mind-to-mind, what self-inquiry reveals. I've found that two ways to bridge this gap are through either poetry or describing direct experience. Now, for example, The best example I have to offer on my point that not all autopilot programs are created equal is a story I've related on the forum a few times about one day on the slopes. Now, if anyone's interested in it I'll repeat it, but we share a common experience that might illustrate what I mean: when you wire a residential 120 outlet, do you think to yourself "black to brass and save yer ass"? .. or, instead, rather than consciously and deliberately connecting the black wire to the brass screw, does it instead come naturally as a conditioned action? The bottom line is that in any given instant of subjective investigation there are only two possibilities: a split mind or not. It's true that this is a logical abstraction, but discerning the differential between the two has nothing to do with logic. "What is watching" can either be what it is that you really are, or it can just be another thread of the thinking/feeling mind.Yeah I agree that post-SR practice can reveal and alter conditioning, although I see this, similar to SR itself, as playing out in as many particular ways are there are people. Some peeps might still practice, others might not. We could go on from there and extrapolate about how for one dude there might be some really gnarly conditioning left over that could lead to a big post-SR shift while for others that conditioning either was never instant or was dealt with pre-SR. We could speculate as to how for some folks there might be a stronger pull into "further" than others, although I'd opine that a taxonomy of that situation could easily and quickly devolve into silly mind-stuff. One opinion that I would hold though, is that expectations as to some sort of final static state are always likely subject to disappointment. The problem as it relates to the dialog on the forum is that we can't agree to disagree on our differing opinions on what SR refers to. I find this kinda' sad and a missed opportunity, because the dialog on post-SR practice is one that that I'm actually the most interested in presently, and one, given how it seems that more and more peeps are waking up these days, to be rather timely. I agree that not all auto-pilot programs are equal. This makes for the variety we see in peeps in life, some are closer to "reality" some further away. It has to do with the content of the programming. And you are dead on about the differential, most of the "watching" at least in the beginning, is from some aspect of the conditioned, so it really isn't watching. I think realizing this is really the beginning of finding the unconditioned. Good points. Your outlet example, there are two aspects to this. Some stuff is just learned by rote. It's good to understand that the multiplication table is really a for of adding, but you just learn it, drill it into your mind (I don't remember when, what's that? 3rd or 4th grade?) I taught my new helpers, this is just the way it is, you have to do it this way, and then I would check everything they did until I knew they knew. But later when they know what they are doing, the second challenge is you can go to what I called la-la land, go completely on auto-pilot, and then you can't count on quality, getting it done right. Later when I checked a house out I would find stuff done wrong from a guy I knew knew what they were doing. And I'd show them, and say, you were in la-la land when you did this, I have to have it right, you can burn down a house if stuff isn't perfect. So you can do stuff on auto-pilot, but there has to be a certain level of awareness there to make sure you're getting it right. But that's one thing, training people. I tried to always use work for practice, so I worked from both levels, letting the mind/body do what it knew but atst watch what the mind/body was doing. Watching would be a secondary level. (I never tried to teach anyone else that worked for me, this). And I could go in and out of the watching, sometimes 'out' for hours. I'm going to get back to ZD on the question of flow eventually, I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page on this. I agree that ego is absent in flow, but I think the watcher can be present. I'm not sure ZD would agree with this, I've been working on formulating a question...... Does this make sense? And there were times when one absolutely couldn't trust auto-pilot, working stuff hot (we weren't supposed to), and working high, like on an A-Frame ladder or off scaffolding, or standing on top of a 12-ft ladder. Anyway, I think here on ST's split-mind is mentioned sometimes where it doesn't apply. I don't consider it to be a case of split-mind to be in this secondary watching, attention or awareness. Split-mind is when you have this other "thread of thinking/feeling mind". ......................... I think, yes, there is a problem with defining SR differently. People all the time here use SR and obviously mean something different. I don't get this. But this reveals the question of practice after SR. I don't have time to go into this right now. But this might be an example of the problem here. When was the last time you practiced walking? But I also think this is a very important question. Another example that might sorta apply (or may not), why do we say that a doctor practices medicine? But basically, if there is no further, no practice necessary. But if there is a further, practice necessary. Well expressed 'pilgrim, thanks for sharing your experiences. A few of the questions you raise are similar to koans.
|
|