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Post by tzujanli on Jun 6, 2015 22:59:47 GMT -5
That's the BS word game, 'appearances'.. what 'is' appears when it intersects the experiencer's awareness and informs the mind, and what experiencers imagine informs the mind, too.. nothing is 'hiding', some things are overlooked because that experiencer is 'looking for' confirmation of their beliefs without the willingness to 'see' everything.. just because something is not seen doesn't mean it's hiding.. I think I understand what your saying, you are separating 'I awareness', into an experiencer(I) with an attribute of awareness. I don't have a problem with that because that's the way it appears to me as well. I'm saying the appearance of separation(experiencer)(I) is an illusion. What's happening(wholeness) is made of what is; awareness and what it is not; appearance of a separate experiencer. Sorry, again.. far too contrived for my understanding.. I'm saying that appearances appear due to stimuli, some actual/some imagined.. Separation describes an experience, i.e.: the experience of fire, too close to your body, will cause you to seek separation from the fire..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 15:18:27 GMT -5
I think I understand what your saying, you are separating 'I awareness', into an experiencer(I) with an attribute of awareness. I don't have a problem with that because that's the way it appears to me as well. I'm saying the appearance of separation(experiencer)(I) is an illusion. What's happening(wholeness) is made of what is; awareness and what it is not; appearance of a separate experiencer. Sorry, again.. far too contrived for my understanding.. I'm saying that appearances appear due to stimuli, some actual/some imagined.. Separation describes an experience, i.e.: the experience of fire, too close to your body, will cause you to seek separation from the fire..We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned?
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 7, 2015 15:28:49 GMT -5
Sorry, again.. far too contrived for my understanding.. I'm saying that appearances appear due to stimuli, some actual/some imagined.. Separation describes an experience, i.e.: the experience of fire, too close to your body, will cause you to seek separation from the fire..We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned? It's an opportunity for you to see beyond what you are looking for..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 15:37:52 GMT -5
We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned? It's an opportunity for you to see beyond what you are looking for..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 15:47:23 GMT -5
Sorry, again.. far too contrived for my understanding.. I'm saying that appearances appear due to stimuli, some actual/some imagined.. Separation describes an experience, i.e.: the experience of fire, too close to your body, will cause you to seek separation from the fire..We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned?
It's a old line he rolls out when he's trying to prove that the perspective of separation, is more than just that. He'll be asking about the picture above his computer table as well soon. .. or maybe he won't now.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 15:55:42 GMT -5
We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned?
It's a old line he rolls out when he's trying to prove that the perspective of separation, is more than just that. He'll be asking about the picture above his computer table as well soon. .. or maybe he won't now. Don't get him started...
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 7, 2015 16:03:59 GMT -5
We were discussing the pointing out of an illusion and the possibility that there is no one. And there is no separation, no separate individual who can find what they are looking for. What does that have to do with putting some space between me and a fire so that I don't get burned?
It's a old line he rolls out when he's trying to prove that the perspective of separation, is more than just that. He'll be asking about the picture above his computer table as well soon. .. or maybe he won't now. And still, there is no attempt to resolve the obvious contradiction between the claim of no separation and the actuality of its existence, just the usual strawman ridicule and dodge.. BTW, i've changed the picture, care to exemplify no separation and identify it???
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 16:11:40 GMT -5
It's a old line he rolls out when he's trying to prove that the perspective of separation, is more than just that. He'll be asking about the picture above his computer table as well soon. .. or maybe he won't now. And still, there is no attempt to resolve the obvious contradiction between the claim of no separation and the actuality of its existence, just the usual strawman ridicule and dodge.. BTW, i've changed the picture, care to exemplify no separation and identify it??? It's not for me as the writer of the words on a computer screen to prove that non-separation is the only reality. It's for what's reading to show the mind that thinks it's understanding them, to stop imagining another writer and really reveal Itself. That is the Silence that is sought.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 7, 2015 16:26:12 GMT -5
And still, there is no attempt to resolve the obvious contradiction between the claim of no separation and the actuality of its existence, just the usual strawman ridicule and dodge.. BTW, i've changed the picture, care to exemplify no separation and identify it??? It's not for me as the writer of the words on a computer screen to prove that non-separation is the only reality. It's for what's reading to show the mind that thinks it's understanding them, to stop imagining another writer and really reveal Itself. That is the Silence that is sought. I'm not asking anyone to 'prove' anything, only to exemplify the claims being made.. aside from the imagining of your mind, can you demonstrate that there is not 'another writer'?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 16:26:50 GMT -5
It's a old line he rolls out when he's trying to prove that the perspective of separation, is more than just that. He'll be asking about the picture above his computer table as well soon. .. or maybe he won't now. And still, there is no attempt to resolve the obvious contradiction between the claim of no separation and the actuality of its existence, just the usual strawman ridicule and dodge.. BTW, i've changed the picture, care to exemplify no separation and identify it??? There is no contradiction, only a mystery. Which is an apparent separation appearing in the presence of awareness. The appearance is an illusion. What's happening appears in the presence of awareness. No one can find what makes up the object of awareness, nor can they find an I that is the presence of awareness. Because there isn't anyone, or anything, there is Awareness, that's it. No contradiction just a simple mystery.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 16:33:07 GMT -5
It's not for me as the writer of the words on a computer screen to prove that non-separation is the only reality. It's for what's reading to show the mind that thinks it's understanding them, to stop imagining another writer and really reveal Itself. That is the Silence that is sought. I'm not asking anyone to 'prove' anything, only to exemplify the claims being made.. aside from the imagining of your mind, can you demonstrate that there is not 'another writer'? No Sir. Only you can explore that possibility.
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 7, 2015 16:40:02 GMT -5
I'm not asking anyone to 'prove' anything, only to exemplify the claims being made.. aside from the imagining of your mind, can you demonstrate that there is not 'another writer'? No Sir. Only you can explore that possibility. That possibility remains open, with no evidence that it exists..
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Post by tzujanli on Jun 7, 2015 16:44:17 GMT -5
And still, there is no attempt to resolve the obvious contradiction between the claim of no separation and the actuality of its existence, just the usual strawman ridicule and dodge.. BTW, i've changed the picture, care to exemplify no separation and identify it??? There is no contradiction, only a mystery. Which is an apparent separation appearing in the presence of awareness. The appearance is an illusion. What's happening appears in the presence of awareness. No one can find what makes up the object of awareness, nor can they find an I that is the presence of awareness. Because there isn't anyone, or anything, there is Awareness, that's it. No contradiction just a simple mystery.I've taken the liberty of clarifying the post to indicate what resonates with a still mind's awareness..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2015 17:18:10 GMT -5
There is no contradiction, only a mystery. Which is an apparent separation appearing in the presence of awareness. The appearance is an illusion. What's happening appears in the presence of awareness. No one can find what makes up the object of awareness, nor can they find an I that is the presence of awareness. Because there isn't anyone, or anything, there is Awareness, that's it. No contradiction just a simple mystery.I've taken the liberty of clarifying the post to indicate what resonates with a still mind's awareness.. How do you know you have a still mind's awareness or is it something you are looking for?
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Post by laughter on Jun 7, 2015 20:11:52 GMT -5
Laffy, One of the interesting things that happened after the silent part of the retreat ended was that different people asked me if I had a website or a blog. The first time I was asked this I said no. I started to suggest visiting the ST forum, but when I quickly reflected upon what they would likely encounter if they came here, I realized that I could no longer recommend this site. Instead, I gave the person my email address and promised that I would have a website available in the near future. (** hangs head in shame **) I had thought many times in the past about the possibility of putting together a website devoted to Self-realization, meditation, and other related issues, but this week I knew that that project just couldn't wait any longer. In the past I had bought the domain name "attendingtheactual.com", and although I own some other domain names, I'll probably stick with that one because I now get asked about ATA so often. I'm a Luddite, so I'll have to get some help setting up the domain, but in the weeks ahead I hope to have a basic website functioning in some minimal manner. Stay tuned..... That's exciting news ZD.
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