Don't Stop Too Soon

[zendancer]

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake. The elevation of the lake and facility is at approximately 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public. There is also a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to be INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to be that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

[tenka]

For myself I had the bit between my teeth and was relentless in my enquiry, when I was in the zone nothing else mattered in a way .

What makes or allows one to do that rather than pick something up and put it back down or just say whatever .

It's not all about focus / discipline / dedication granted but there seems to be something else that happens where one does not have a choice to keep going for use of a better word .

At some point as many know the pull of something gives one the momentum and then the wind is well and truly in one's sails .

Glad you enjoyed your retreat, I have mine coming up in late autumn .

[figgles]

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake, whose elevation is about 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public, and also has a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to go INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to manifest that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

Yes, the bolded is important; Folks THINK there is nothing more to see. And thus, they become closed to the possibility of 'further.' That should be their first clue; "Thinking/believing" that they are done.

But, As Tenka says, the impetus itself that drives "going further" is beyond 'my' control...thus, best  one can  do, is to pay attention,  to notice and inquire into any thought that says; "I am finished, done, there is definitely nothing more for me to see."

that said, I don't resonate a whole lot with the idea that one must arrive at a fixed knowing of 'what he is' in order to manifest the vastness of being. AS I see it, the vastness of being, comes with an absence of fixed knowing...an absence of identification with a fixed and sole, 'what'.
...the manifestation of the  vastness is experienced on the heels of  the realization of the inherent emptiness that all form arises from and within.

To "Be" the majesty is not to find and adhere to 'a what',  but rather it is realizing that there are no limits placed upon being other than those that are self imposed through fixed ideas/beliefs. 

[zendancer]

Jun 5, 2015 10:10:55 GMT -5 figgles said:

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake, whose elevation is about 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public, and also has a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to go INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to manifest that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

Yes, the bolded is important; Folks THINK there is nothing more to see. And thus, they become closed to the possibility of 'further.' That should be their first clue; "Thinking/believing" that they are done.

But, As Tenka says, the impetus itself that drives "going further" is beyond 'my' control...thus, best  one can  do, is to pay attention,  to notice and inquire into any thought that says; "I am finished, done, there is definitely nothing more for me to see."

that said, I don't resonate a whole lot with the idea that one must arrive at a fixed knowing of 'what he is' in order to manifest the vastness of being. AS I see it, the vastness of being, comes with an absence of fixed knowing...an absence of identification with a fixed and sole, 'what'.
...the manifestation of the  vastness is experienced on the heels of  the realization of the inherent emptiness that all form arises from and within.

To "Be" the majesty is not to find and adhere to 'a what',  but rather it is realizing that there are no limits placed upon being other than those that are self imposed through fixed ideas/beliefs. 

Totally agree. This is another way of pointing to the same thing.

[figgles]

Jun 5, 2015 10:21:06 GMT -5 zendancer said:

Jun 5, 2015 10:10:55 GMT -5 figgles said:

Yes, the bolded is important; Folks THINK there is nothing more to see. And thus, they become closed to the possibility of 'further.' That should be their first clue; "Thinking/believing" that they are done.

But, As Tenka says, the impetus itself that drives "going further" is beyond 'my' control...thus, best  one can  do, is to pay attention,  to notice and inquire into any thought that says; "I am finished, done, there is definitely nothing more for me to see."

that said, I don't resonate a whole lot with the idea that one must arrive at a fixed knowing of 'what he is' in order to manifest the vastness of being. AS I see it, the vastness of being, comes with an absence of fixed knowing...an absence of identification with a fixed and sole, 'what'.
...the manifestation of the  vastness is experienced on the heels of  the realization of the inherent emptiness that all form arises from and within.

To "Be" the majesty is not to find and adhere to 'a what',  but rather it is realizing that there are no limits placed upon being other than those that are self imposed through fixed ideas/beliefs. 

Totally agree. This is another way of pointing to the same thing.

Cool. ...seems to be a rather sweet morning of finding common ground.

[laughter]

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake, whose elevation is about 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public, and also has a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to go INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to manifest that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

Thanks for the description ZD, that place sounds amazing man.

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2015 11:01:13 GMT -5 laughter said:

that place sounds amazing man.

[laughter]

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T).

Did Gangajii have any insight or comments about ATA?

[Deleted]

what are your current longitude and latitude coordinates? how and why does that number change? where and what is the reference point?

[Deleted]

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake. The elevation of the lake and facility is at approximately 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public. There is also a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to be INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to be that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

How can that which is realized to be an illusion, seek for what it really is? If there is still that kind of seeking happening, devoid of identity, it isn't being done by the illusory self, but by everything.

[tzujanli]

Jun 6, 2015 11:20:02 GMT -5 @source said:

Jun 5, 2015 9:03:00 GMT -5 zendancer said:

During the last week Carol and I attended a silent retreat with Gangaji which was held at the Stanford Sierra Center on Fallen Leaf Lake located immediately south of the south end of Lake Tahoe. I don't think we've ever seen a more beautiful place than this. The rustic Stanford University facility is located on FL lake at the base of Mt. Tallac, a 9700 foot high granite massif that rises directly from the lake. The elevation of the lake and facility is at approximately 6300 feet. Within a half mile of the center is an entrance into Desolation Wilderness, and there are dozens of great hiking trails in the area that lead past spectacular waterfalls, lakes, and stunning granite monoliths. For anyone travelling in this area of the country I would strongly recommend a visit to the center, which has free trail maps available for the public. There is also a parking area for the trailhead leading to the summit of Mt. Tallac.

During one of the satsangs this week I spoke with Gangaji about many of the things we often discuss on this forum, and I took that opportunity to explain a bit about ATA-T and how it differs from mindfulness (ATA+T). Afterwards, several people talked with me privately, and during at least two of those conversations it became apparent that some people searching for the truth stop a bit too soon--they stop before, in Rumi's words, they are "inside the majesty." It is one thing to find the truth, but it is quite another thing to have the truth become embodied--to be INSIDE THE TRUTH, so to speak.

There are dozens of important realizations that can occur on this pathless path as structures of thought and patterns of thought fall by the wayside, and non-conceptual awareness replaces conceptual awareness as a primary mode of interacting with the world. On the forum we often discuss SR because seeing through the illusion of personal selfhood is one of the biggest realizations that can occur. Although realizing that we are NOT who we THOUGHT we were is huge, realizing what we ARE is even huger.

Many people stop searching a little too soon, and think that there is nothing more to see, but in doing so, they miss discovering either (1) the vastness of their being (what Rumi calls "the majesty"), or (2) what it feels like to be that vastness. On this path there is no end to what can be discovered through silent awareness, and I can only encourage anyone who is interested in this matter to "go all the way."

The bottom line? Don't stop with discovering what you are NOT. Find out what you ARE. Enter the majesty, and BE THAT.

Once the seeker is seen to be an illusion, that there never was a separate seeker. What is carrying on the seeking of what I really am?
I mean isn't the realization of the illusory self and the understanding of the vastness of what's happening enough?

Once the seeker's relationship with the seeking is understood, the seeking, searching, finding out, is effortless.. there IS a seeker/searcher/finder in each of us, understanding that fundamental prime directive liberates the seeker from the conflicts they imagine about seekers being an illusion.. but, it requires the willingness to let it all go, allowing what 'is' to reveal itself anew in each moment, unburdened by past baggage and labels..

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2015 12:08:19 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

Jun 6, 2015 11:20:02 GMT -5 @source said:

Once the seeker is seen to be an illusion, that there never was a separate seeker. What is carrying on the seeking of what I really am?
I mean isn't the realization of the illusory self and the understanding of the vastness of what's happening enough?

Once the seeker's relationship with the seeking is understood, the seeking, searching, finding out, is effortless.. there IS a seeker/searcher/finder in each of us, understanding that fundamental prime directive liberates the seeker from the conflicts they imagine about seekers being an illusion.. but, it requires the willingness to let it all go, allowing what 'is' to reveal itself anew in each moment, unburdened by past baggage and labels..

Isn't that what the realization of an illusory separate seeker implies, that despite there not being a seeker, seeking takes place in that which is nothing as everything? In other words a seeker and seeking are simply appearances in the ineffable.

[tzujanli]

Jun 6, 2015 12:15:10 GMT -5 @source said:

Jun 6, 2015 12:08:19 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

Once the seeker's relationship with the seeking is understood, the seeking, searching, finding out, is effortless.. there IS a seeker/searcher/finder in each of us, understanding that fundamental prime directive liberates the seeker from the conflicts they imagine about seekers being an illusion.. but, it requires the willingness to let it all go, allowing what 'is' to reveal itself anew in each moment, unburdened by past baggage and labels..

Isn't that what the realization of an illusory separate seeker implies, that despite there not being a seeker, seeking takes place in that which is nothing as everything? In other words a seeker and seeking are simply appearances in the ineffable.

No, that's new age BS.. there are separate seekers, some seeking one idea, some seeking another, some seeking guru status, some seeking clarity..

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2015 12:19:30 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

Jun 6, 2015 12:15:10 GMT -5 @source said:

Isn't that what the realization of an illusory separate seeker implies, that despite there not being a seeker, seeking takes place in that which is nothing as everything? In other words a seeker and seeking are simply appearances in the ineffable.

No, that's new age BS.. there are separate seekers, some seeking one idea, some seeking another, some seeking guru status, some seeking clarity..

I agree, it's indubitable that seeking appears, but when I look deeply into my experience, I never actually find a seeker, or even a body for that matter. 

[tzujanli]

Jun 6, 2015 12:26:58 GMT -5 @source said:

Jun 6, 2015 12:19:30 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

No, that's new age BS.. there are separate seekers, some seeking one idea, some seeking another, some seeking guru status, some seeking clarity..

I agree, it's indubitable that seeking appears, but when I look deeply into my experience, I never actually find a seeker, or even a body for that matter. 

I find a seeker AND a body, AND 'i' am not confined/defined by that clarity, it is simply seen for what it 'is': part of the whole..