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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 21:36:09 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 26, 2015 21:36:09 GMT -5
The oneness/separation false dilemma paradigm is suitable for mind-games and word-games.. and, when the experiencer tires of those games, it's just a matter of letting go.. As long as there is the invocation of oneness there will be separation to balance that idea.. integration has naught to do with oneness/separation models, though.. If the dilemma is false, then what is integrated? The individual's relationship with what is happening..
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 21:50:21 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 21:50:21 GMT -5
If the dilemma is false, then what is integrated? The individual's relationship with what is happening.. The separation between the individual and the "happening" that defines the process of integration is, indeed, a " mind game".
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 21:58:25 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 26, 2015 21:58:25 GMT -5
The individual's relationship with what is happening.. The separation between the individual and the "happening" that defines the process of integration is, indeed, a " mind game". Cool.. you're not really following this too well, are you?
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 23:28:52 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 23:28:52 GMT -5
The separation between the individual and the "happening" that defines the process of integration is, indeed, a " mind game". Cool.. you're not really following this too well, are you? Not the way that you want it to be followed, no ... "well" is a relative value judgement son.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 2:07:09 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 2:07:09 GMT -5
Through a medium such as the internet.. ? I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Do you have the capacity to feel words?
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 2:35:10 GMT -5
Post by jay17 on Apr 27, 2015 2:35:10 GMT -5
I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Do you have the capacity to feel words? I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4110/beliefs?page=4#ixzz3YUcU7qyw
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 2:37:49 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 2:37:49 GMT -5
Do you have the capacity to feel words? I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/4110/beliefs?page=4#ixzz3YUcU7qywDo you have the capacity to feel words?
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 4:35:58 GMT -5
Post by lolly on Apr 27, 2015 4:35:58 GMT -5
If the dilemma is false, then what is integrated? The individual's relationship with what is happening.. Isn't the individual only formed in the context of relationships?
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 4:49:19 GMT -5
Post by zin on Apr 27, 2015 4:49:19 GMT -5
A few times I saw that some too-good-to-be-true things are true . I'm pretty sure I know what you mean by that. What I know for certain is that the me from 7 years ago would be very very surprised if he had a metaphysical conversation with the me of today. Perhaps you will say the same in 2022, too Remembered something: This will be for the ones who are interested in Mooji's talks... At the end of "Free for ever and ever" video he talks about Self-realization and says something like, perhaps you think this is a special thing happened only to me, but "I am your confidence, I am you in confidence"... Here I didn't write it for SR, I just see non-separation there.. (I had watched it long ago, things like that come 'back' to my mind from time to time).
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 5:04:53 GMT -5
Post by jay17 on Apr 27, 2015 5:04:53 GMT -5
Please quote me where i have said, i have no interest in observing existence without thinking/imagining/reflecting/fantasizing/cognizing/judging/discriminating/etc. And when you can't, then you have two choices - re-examine all your accumulated thoughts about me, or don't, and retain thinking you have observed and concluded correctly. Perhaps if you re-examine you might discover the point of disagreement has nothing to do with 'still mind' observation of existence. Jay: Sorry for this late response, but I was out of town and just returned. FYI I don't read dissected text walls, but if I misunderstood your interest here, you have my sincerest apology. Genuinely accepted, though not required, and i doubt an apology will resolve your misunderstandings if you continue to ignore certain posts. I remember that you questioned what you perceived on the forum as an aversion to mind. FWIW, I don't think that many posters here are averse to using mind; How you perceive events here will not change the conclusions i formuate from what i see. It's not only in this forum, but in a huge portion of the spiritual community who adhere to the teachings regarding 'direct experience', 'still mind' and a whole bunch of other eastern philosophies that are related to stop thinking, stop using\relying on mind. the interest lies more in using mind as a servant rather than being used by mind. In Tolle's words, the interest lies in "becoming free from the compulsion of incessant thought," and what some writers have termed "the concensus trance" generated and maintained by incessant reflective/interpretive/self-referential thought. One thing that stands out for me regarding many people who are Self Realization\Non-Duality devotees, is a high percentage of their thoughts are illogical, contains discrepancies, flaws, contradictory, are lacking in common sense... and when requesting clarification, or making enquiries, out come the devaluing remarks about thoughts, thinking and mind. "It's beyond mind, it can't be comprehended by mind, you're still stuck in illusion with all your thinking and questions"...on and on and on. Apparently, reasoning is not high up on the list of attributes to use when aligning oneself with such spiritual philosophies.
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 5:07:11 GMT -5
Post by jay17 on Apr 27, 2015 5:07:11 GMT -5
Do you have the capacity to feel words? I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm.
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Post by andrew on Apr 27, 2015 5:24:58 GMT -5
Jay: Sorry for this late response, but I was out of town and just returned. FYI I don't read dissected text walls, but if I misunderstood your interest here, you have my sincerest apology. Genuinely accepted, though not required, and i doubt an apology will resolve your misunderstandings if you continue to ignore certain posts. I remember that you questioned what you perceived on the forum as an aversion to mind. FWIW, I don't think that many posters here are averse to using mind; How you perceive events here will not change the conclusions i formuate from what i see. It's not only in this forum, but in a huge portion of the spiritual community who adhere to the teachings regarding 'direct experience', 'still mind' and a whole bunch of other eastern philosophies that are related to stop thinking, stop using\relying on mind. the interest lies more in using mind as a servant rather than being used by mind. In Tolle's words, the interest lies in "becoming free from the compulsion of incessant thought," and what some writers have termed "the concensus trance" generated and maintained by incessant reflective/interpretive/self-referential thought. One thing that stands out for me regarding many people who are Self Realization\Non-Duality devotees, is a high percentage of their thoughts are illogical, contains discrepancies, flaws, contradictory, are lacking in common sense... and when requesting clarification, or making enquiries, out come the devaluing remarks about thoughts, thinking and mind.
"It's beyond mind, it can't be comprehended by mind, you're still stuck in illusion with all your thinking and questions"...on and on and on.
Apparently, reasoning is not high up on the list of attributes to use when aligning oneself with such spiritual philosophies. Yes, I see what you are saying here. I think one of the reasons is that non-duality sometimes presents mind as 'the problem' or 'the false', which creates a lack of respect for the mind's role and it's abilities. With that belief in place, it becomes okay to say stuff that lacks common sense, or is illogical, or is flawed, the justification being that 'that's just mind stuff anyway, just a load of ideas, so it doesn't matter whether it stands up to scrutiny or not'. What some non-duality folks don't often seem to realize is that they do have and hold a set of understandings about what is mind and not mind, and what is worthy of paying attention to and what isn't, and these understandings are formed in mind! To be clear, just because you are responding to ZD doesn't mean that I am directing this at ZD, it's a general comment.
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 5:52:59 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 27, 2015 5:52:59 GMT -5
The individual's relationship with what is happening.. Isn't the individual only formed in the context of relationships? Individuals are formed through relationships AND are engaged in relationships with their existence.. the degree to which the individual is aware of the relationships is what i am referring to..
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 5:59:16 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 27, 2015 5:59:16 GMT -5
Cool.. you're not really following this too well, are you? Not the way that you want it to be followed, no ... "well" is a relative value judgement son. I really don't 'want' you to follow me or my understanding any particular way, i was simply noting that you just post stuff to stir-up conflict, without any real interest in the topic.. you seem to enjoy pejorative words like "son", why is that?
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veter
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Beliefs
Apr 27, 2015 8:32:59 GMT -5
Post by veter on Apr 27, 2015 8:32:59 GMT -5
The individual's relationship with what is happening.. The separation between the individual and the "happening" that defines the process of integration is, indeed, a " mind game". Yeah. The division "subject-process-object" is a way of describing, thinking and not the way of existing! All three are concepts, which describe indivisible sides of experience
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