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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 8:19:43 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Apr 26, 2015 8:19:43 GMT -5
Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind.Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. .. it is possible to suspend the mind's influence/distortion of input, and i suspect that is the intended reference.. The clarity of a still mind's awareness bypasses the mind's categorization and mental filing process, the information inherent with experience is integrated with the experiencer's being.. such that there is no doubt, no hesitation, no rummaging through mental filing cabinets and comparison evaluations, that experiencer is naturally integrated with what is happening, mind is still, bright, alive, alert, fully present and engaged with the happening.. life become a continuum of fluid dynamism, an integrated relationship between experiencer/experience/experienced, parts and whole, happening.. One of my teachers explained that if you 'see the door open' and then try to get to it to get in, you were already too late.. you have to 'be there when it opens'.. the mind that is 'thinking' is already too late.. successful athletes, warriors, surfers, lovers all understand this even if they can't articulate it.. contemplation is preparation for opportunity, and success is when preparation meets opportunity without dependence on hindrances that " interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm", that process is 'already too late'.. Tzu: This explanation sounds pretty good to me. What we're talking about is substantially suspending intellectual and self-referential reflection so that life can be lived directly and spontaneously. The imaginative function of mind (the intellect) remains available, but is not dominant as an interpreter of events. Even if the intellect is totally quiescent, the body is intelligent, and it continues to interact with, know, and understand the world (what's happening) directly.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 8:31:58 GMT -5
Post by zendancer on Apr 26, 2015 8:31:58 GMT -5
Jay: If you wanted to learn to look at the world without thinking/imagining/reflecting/fantasizing/cognizing/judging/discriminating/etc., you could certainly do so, and then you would discover many fascinating things about human existence, but you say you have no interest in that, and you apparently don't believe it's possible. Why, then, waste time interacting with people whose interest lies in what lies beyond the intellect? Please quote me where i have said, i have no interest in observing existence without thinking/imagining/reflecting/fantasizing/cognizing/judging/discriminating/etc. And when you can't, then you have two choices - re-examine all your accumulated thoughts about me, or don't, and retain thinking you have observed and concluded correctly. Perhaps if you re-examine you might discover the point of disagreement has nothing to do with 'still mind' observation of existence. Jay: Sorry for this late response, but I was out of town and just returned. FYI I don't read dissected text walls, but if I misunderstood your interest here, you have my sincerest apology. I remember that you questioned what you perceived on the forum as an aversion to mind. FWIW, I don't think that many posters here are averse to using mind; the interest lies more in using mind as a servant rather than being used by mind. In Tolle's words, the interest lies in "becoming free from the compulsion of incessant thought," and what some writers have termed "the concensus trance" generated and maintained by incessant reflective/interpretive/self-referential thought.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 9:06:27 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 26, 2015 9:06:27 GMT -5
.. it is possible to suspend the mind's influence/distortion of input, and i suspect that is the intended reference.. The clarity of a still mind's awareness bypasses the mind's categorization and mental filing process, the information inherent with experience is integrated with the experiencer's being.. such that there is no doubt, no hesitation, no rummaging through mental filing cabinets and comparison evaluations, that experiencer is naturally integrated with what is happening, mind is still, bright, alive, alert, fully present and engaged with the happening.. life become a continuum of fluid dynamism, an integrated relationship between experiencer/experience/experienced, parts and whole, happening.. One of my teachers explained that if you 'see the door open' and then try to get to it to get in, you were already too late.. you have to 'be there when it opens'.. the mind that is 'thinking' is already too late.. successful athletes, warriors, surfers, lovers all understand this even if they can't articulate it.. contemplation is preparation for opportunity, and success is when preparation meets opportunity without dependence on hindrances that " interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm", that process is 'already too late'.. Tzu: This explanation sounds pretty good to me. What we're talking about is substantially suspending intellectual and self-referential reflection so that life can be lived directly and spontaneously. The imaginative function of mind (the intellect) remains available, but is not dominant as an interpreter of events. Even if the intellect is totally quiescent, the body is intelligent, and it continues to interact with, know, and understand the world (what's happening) directly. Hi ZD: I don't have an understanding that body and mind are separately manageable, rather that they are united in a common experience of existing.. i sense that the individuality exists as a body/mind incarnation of isness, and yes, when the active thinking processes are still, the body continues to function intelligently, 'feeling' its relationship with the happening and naturally/holistically integrating with it..
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Deleted
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 9:13:38 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 9:13:38 GMT -5
Tzu: This explanation sounds pretty good to me. What we're talking about is substantially suspending intellectual and self-referential reflection so that life can be lived directly and spontaneously. The imaginative function of mind (the intellect) remains available, but is not dominant as an interpreter of events. Even if the intellect is totally quiescent, the body is intelligent, and it continues to interact with, know, and understand the world (what's happening) directly. Hi ZD: I don't have an understanding that body and mind are separately manageable, rather that they are united in a common experience of existing.. i sense that the individuality exists as a body/mind incarnation of isness, and yes, when the active thinking processes are still, the body continues to function intelligently, 'feeling' its relationship with the happening and naturally/holistically integrating with it.. Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 9:18:35 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 26, 2015 9:18:35 GMT -5
Hi ZD: I don't have an understanding that body and mind are separately manageable, rather that they are united in a common experience of existing.. i sense that the individuality exists as a body/mind incarnation of isness, and yes, when the active thinking processes are still, the body continues to function intelligently, 'feeling' its relationship with the happening and naturally/holistically integrating with it.. Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again. That's your mind's interpretation of the words you read.. i'm referring to 'feeling'..
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Deleted
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 9:21:40 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 9:21:40 GMT -5
Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again. That's your mind's interpretation of the words you read.. i'm referring to 'feeling'.. ok.
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Post by zin on Apr 26, 2015 10:14:29 GMT -5
For quite a time I didn't understand that the main subject was SR on this forum (and was it always so, I don't know).. I am not SR and don't have much to say about it, so I write different stuff when I write.. Maybe it looks like a limiting thing that things are mostly evaluated according to SR standard.. but as I said (about myself), you can still talk what you want? or do I talk irrelevantly now?.. At the same time I'm saying that to direct attention to SR as a subject is good (imo) because I don't come across this attitude in too many places. For me nonduality does not negate "we're alive now", or does not negate body-mind experience. But I must say that *I don't think about everything I hear*, like I don't think about words like "illusion" "appearance" "nonvolition"... For me nonduality simply points to a deeper place in us which all of us share and can 'live from'. Well, it's not the main subject on the forum but it is the criteria of the status quo, so we do have to continually assert SR or nit SR to maintain status positions.
I'm not SR or SR and I don't have any answers nor do I pretend to, and I don't even 'point', because I can see how inane it becomes when we claim that our beliefs are not our beliefs, which is what this thread does.
Well, we are alive now, so sooner we stop worrying about ones and twos the sooner we can get back to life as it is.
O.K. For me the situation is: life keeps coming in. Note: I appreciate your meditation writings.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 12:23:35 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 12:23:35 GMT -5
Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Through a medium such as the internet.. ? (** muttley snicker **)
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 12:27:27 GMT -5
Hi ZD: I don't have an understanding that body and mind are separately manageable, rather that they are united in a common experience of existing.. i sense that the individuality exists as a body/mind incarnation of isness, and yes, when the active thinking processes are still, the body continues to function intelligently, 'feeling' its relationship with the happening and naturally/holistically integrating with it.. Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again. Exactamente. How could what was never actually separate ever be subject to a process of integration?
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 12:29:37 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 12:29:37 GMT -5
That's your mind's interpretation of the words you read.. i'm referring to 'feeling'.. ok. Tolle writes that emotions are just thoughts felt by the body and subjective investigation reveals just how much of a bullseye that is. So "feeling", just like "mind" can mean lots of different notions to lots of different peeps.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 12:31:38 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 12:31:38 GMT -5
Well, it's not the main subject on the forum but it is the criteria of the status quo, so we do have to continually assert SR or nit SR to maintain status positions.
I'm not SR or SR and I don't have any answers nor do I pretend to, and I don't even 'point', because I can see how inane it becomes when we claim that our beliefs are not our beliefs, which is what this thread does.
Well, we are alive now, so sooner we stop worrying about ones and twos the sooner we can get back to life as it is.
O.K. For me the situation is: life keeps coming in. Note: I appreciate your meditation writings.Yes, lolly's writing on meditation obviously reflects some deep and sustained practice.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2015 12:41:57 GMT -5
Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again. Exactamente. How could what was never actually separate ever be subject to a process of integration? Yeah. It's interesting to think that as mind aligns with it's immediate environment and the sensations available to perception, the body has also gone through a re-integration and a return to it's ever present, intimacy and precise order. Though that's exceptionally untrue, as body has never ever left it's environment and therefore, has no sense of integrating.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 14:23:32 GMT -5
Post by tzujanli on Apr 26, 2015 14:23:32 GMT -5
Any sense of integrating is the mind's interpretation again. Exactamente. How could what was never actually separate ever be subject to a process of integration? The oneness/separation false dilemma paradigm is suitable for mind-games and word-games.. and, when the experiencer tires of those games, it's just a matter of letting go.. As long as there is the invocation of oneness there will be separation to balance that idea.. integration has naught to do with oneness/separation models, though..
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 14:27:26 GMT -5
Post by jay17 on Apr 26, 2015 14:27:26 GMT -5
Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm. Through a medium such as the internet.. ? I do have the capacity to see words....through the medium of teh internets. Please to show me how you can hear, feel, taste, smell and move ...without mind. Perhaps state what part of your being is responsible for processing the incoming data from those sensors, the part that is aware of the external realm via the sensors, and then interprets\processes the incoming data into recognizable data which the self then utilises to produce calculated responses to relate to said external realm.
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Beliefs
Apr 26, 2015 14:31:29 GMT -5
Post by laughter on Apr 26, 2015 14:31:29 GMT -5
Exactamente. How could what was never actually separate ever be subject to a process of integration? The oneness/separation false dilemma paradigm is suitable for mind-games and word-games.. and, when the experiencer tires of those games, it's just a matter of letting go.. As long as there is the invocation of oneness there will be separation to balance that idea.. integration has naught to do with oneness/separation models, though.. If the dilemma is false, then what is integrated?
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