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Post by laughter on Sept 12, 2019 21:25:18 GMT -5
"If you meat the Buddha on the road, kill him" ain't a model, and it's not even really an instruction, but rather, just color commentary as to right-action. Just in case there's a hint of non-levity here, "B.S." definitely applies to any "model" of "enlightenment". No that's not what I was referring to. After the Buddha awakened so the story goes, he was walking on the road and someone stopped him and asked him who he was and Buddha replied, I am awake. This is the way it works: there's not a person alive, nor who ever lived, nor who ever will live, who isn't Christ. It's only ever the existential illusion otherwise. Only one Jesus though.
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Post by laughter on Sept 12, 2019 22:21:34 GMT -5
Alignment/enlightenment is a another useful distinction, but defining the natural state in terms of both mixes the notions of the relative and the absolute. No, not mixing, but suspending. That's the whole point. The natural state is called natural for a reason. The absence of identity or reality is the absence of any focus on a bounding notion such as a state. Beyond that, the mind-made comparisons and judgements based on who is or isn't in that state based on outward appearances are very clearly relative movements.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 16, 2019 9:55:11 GMT -5
No, not mixing, but suspending. That's the whole point. The natural state is called natural for a reason. The absence of identity or reality is the absence of any focus on a bounding notion such as a state. Beyond that, the mind-made comparisons and judgements based on who is or isn't in that state based on outward appearances are very clearly relative movements. Yeah, so what? The worst that can happen is that you're going to lose your eyebrows (old zen adage), hehe.
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Post by laughter on Sept 16, 2019 10:21:38 GMT -5
The absence of identity or reality is the absence of any focus on a bounding notion such as a state. Beyond that, the mind-made comparisons and judgements based on who is or isn't in that state based on outward appearances are very clearly relative movements. Yeah, so what? The worst that can happen is that you're going to lose your eyebrows (old zen adage), hehe. (** shakes hairless head sadly **)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 3:39:13 GMT -5
This is the way it works: there's not a person alive, nor who ever lived, nor who ever will live, who isn't Christ. It's only ever the existential illusion otherwise. Only one Jesus though. So, one Being, alive and alone for Eternity. Sounds worse than Hell to me. I guess I need to stop reading this stuff because I definitely don't get it.
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Post by laughter on Sept 17, 2019 4:20:42 GMT -5
This is the way it works: there's not a person alive, nor who ever lived, nor who ever will live, who isn't Christ. It's only ever the existential illusion otherwise. Only one Jesus though. So, one Being, alive and alone for Eternity. Sounds worse than Hell to me. I guess I need to stop reading this stuff because I definitely don't get it. ... truly sorry. Hell is an emotional creation of mind, which isn't to dismiss it, as people really do suffer. This dichotomy of one/many has no resolution .. not by intellect, not by emotion. It's "the mystery of faith" that can also be discerned by existential insight. "One being, alone" is a misconception, please don't read that into what I wrote.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 17, 2019 6:45:19 GMT -5
A Zen story...
A renowned Zen master said that his greatest teaching was this: Buddha is your own mind. So impressed by how profound this idea was, one monk decided to leave the monastery and retreat to the wilderness to meditate on this insight. There he spent 20 years as a hermit probing the great teaching. One day he met another monk who was traveling through the forest. Quickly the hermit monk learned that the traveler also had studied under the same Zen master. "Please, tell me what you know of the master's greatest teaching." The traveler's eyes lit up, "Ah, the master has been very clear about this. He says that his greatest teaching is this: Buddha is NOT your own mind."
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Post by laughter on Sept 17, 2019 10:29:23 GMT -5
A Zen story... A renowned Zen master said that his greatest teaching was this: Buddha is your own mind. So impressed by how profound this idea was, one monk decided to leave the monastery and retreat to the wilderness to meditate on this insight. There he spent 20 years as a hermit probing the great teaching. One day he met another monk who was traveling through the forest. Quickly the hermit monk learned that the traveler also had studied under the same Zen master. "Please, tell me what you know of the master's greatest teaching." The traveler's eyes lit up, "Ah, the master has been very clear about this. He says that his greatest teaching is this: Buddha is NOT your own mind." Don't matter how many times they break that bread up into pieces, it's still Christ. No one piece is exactly the same as any other, but each and every one is the body of Christ. Some Christians believe in a literal physical resurrection, but if you gathered up all those different pieces of bread from all the masses over all the centuries, and stacked them up in a pile, it's a speck of dust compared to the limitlessness that is Christ, and really, not even that.
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Post by zendancer on Sept 18, 2019 11:48:44 GMT -5
This is the way it works: there's not a person alive, nor who ever lived, nor who ever will live, who isn't Christ. It's only ever the existential illusion otherwise. Only one Jesus though. So, one Being, alive and alone for Eternity. Sounds worse than Hell to me. I guess I need to stop reading this stuff because I definitely don't get it. Any idea about what THIS is is an idea, only. It cannot be grasped by mind. If all ideas are left behind, then what? A fun experiment would be to find out if this forum can be left behind. In either case who or what would be making that decision? Ironically, to use the words of more than one sage, "once one's head is in the tiger's mouth, there's no escape."
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Post by satchitananda on Sept 18, 2019 12:07:32 GMT -5
So, one Being, alive and alone for Eternity. Sounds worse than Hell to me. I guess I need to stop reading this stuff because I definitely don't get it. Any idea about what THIS is is an idea, only. It cannot be grasped by mind. If all ideas are left behind, then what? A fun experiment would be to find out if this forum can be left behind. In either case who or what would be making that decision? Ironically, to use the words of more than one sage, "once one's head is in the tiger's mouth, there's no escape." Maybe this forum is like Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave.
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Post by zendancer on Sept 18, 2019 12:15:48 GMT -5
Any idea about what THIS is is an idea, only. It cannot be grasped by mind. If all ideas are left behind, then what? A fun experiment would be to find out if this forum can be left behind. In either case who or what would be making that decision? Ironically, to use the words of more than one sage, "once one's head is in the tiger's mouth, there's no escape." Maybe this forum is like Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave.
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Post by siftingtothetruth on Sept 18, 2019 15:33:12 GMT -5
So, one Being, alive and alone for Eternity. Sounds worse than Hell to me. I guess I need to stop reading this stuff because I definitely don't get it. ... truly sorry. Hell is an emotional creation of mind, which isn't to dismiss it, as people really do suffer. This dichotomy of one/many has no resolution .. not by intellect, not by emotion. It's "the mystery of faith" that can also be discerned by existential insight. "One being, alone" is a misconception, please don't read that into what I wrote. And even discerned, if I may suggest, might be a step too far. Both problem and potential solutions themselves exist in a vessel itself held in A Space; that realization cuts the painful edge to the problem. But is the solution actually "discerned"? I'd say no. That's still the "realm of the divine."
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Post by laughter on Sept 19, 2019 2:51:41 GMT -5
... truly sorry. Hell is an emotional creation of mind, which isn't to dismiss it, as people really do suffer. This dichotomy of one/many has no resolution .. not by intellect, not by emotion. It's "the mystery of faith" that can also be discerned by existential insight. "One being, alone" is a misconception, please don't read that into what I wrote. And even discerned, if I may suggest, might be a step too far. Both problem and potential solutions themselves exist in a vessel itself held in A Space; that realization cuts the painful edge to the problem. But is the solution actually "discerned"? I'd say no. That's still the "realm of the divine." The mystery remains a mystery, yes, but one that no longer puzzles. There's still a poignancy to hell but no fear of it. The heat of the flames can still be felt, but only vicariously. I understand and accept your objection to the notions of "discernment" and "insight".. the words nor the concepts they convey, are really all that important other than the reality of the promise they allude to, and they can suggest a sort of superiority that simply isn't the case.
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Post by laughter on Sept 19, 2019 2:55:45 GMT -5
Any idea about what THIS is is an idea, only. It cannot be grasped by mind. If all ideas are left behind, then what? A fun experiment would be to find out if this forum can be left behind. In either case who or what would be making that decision? Ironically, to use the words of more than one sage, "once one's head is in the tiger's mouth, there's no escape." Maybe this forum is like Hotel California. You can check out but you can never leave. The metaphor I've got for it is a family. But nothing here is ever left to Beaver.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 20, 2019 10:09:26 GMT -5
A Zen story... A renowned Zen master said that his greatest teaching was this: Buddha is your own mind. So impressed by how profound this idea was, one monk decided to leave the monastery and retreat to the wilderness to meditate on this insight. There he spent 20 years as a hermit probing the great teaching. One day he met another monk who was traveling through the forest. Quickly the hermit monk learned that the traveler also had studied under the same Zen master. "Please, tell me what you know of the master's greatest teaching." The traveler's eyes lit up, "Ah, the master has been very clear about this. He says that his greatest teaching is this: Buddha is NOT your own mind." Don't matter how many times they break that bread up into pieces, it's still Christ. No one piece is exactly the same as any other, but each and every one is the body of Christ. Some Christians believe in a literal physical resurrection, but if you gathered up all those different pieces of bread from all the masses over all the centuries, and stacked them up in a pile, it's a speck of dust compared to the limitlessness that is Christ, and really, not even that. I've got an idea, google "Bull 'In Agro Dominico' by John XXII". Print it out and pass it on to your non-dual Catholic priest friend. And watch what happens.
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