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Post by andyparf on Dec 18, 2014 19:54:27 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up
waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role
beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something,
conciousness + maya = character
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Post by enigma on Dec 18, 2014 20:11:53 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something, conciousness + maya = character I would say it's the normal state, but not the natural state. The natural state is to be awake, and it is effortless precisely because it IS the natural state. It is subtle. It is not hard to do. It is not something you CAN do, more like something you notice, or recognize, or realize. It is effortlessness itself, meaning an effortless state, meaning a state devoid of effort, which cannot be reached by any effort, which would naturally prevent that effortless state from occurring, which makes this the longest run-on sentence I've written in a long time.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 18, 2014 20:23:59 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something, conciousness + maya = character Hey andyparf ..........what you say is essentially correct, but your words are a little off. (It would be better put, our ordinary state). Our natural state should be to be awake. But we are born among sleeping people and at an early age we go to sleep. You are right, this is because we come to live through what you are calling character. I call it our cultural self, because we acquire it from the culture we happen to live in. You are correct, waking up is hard. It's hard because we are continually identified with our 'character', we always say "I" to our functions, thinking, feeling, acting (what we do, physical actions). Consciousness is separate from functions. Living through our thoughts, feelings and doings, our attention is continually captured by these. You can ask yourself, right now, where your attention is. Almost any time you ask this, you will find your attention is absorbed-in some thought, emotion or action. The beginning is living through your attention instead of it being captured. Just experiment with this........ Now, very shortly, if it hasn't happened yet, you are going to get a different view than I've expressed in this post. You're going to hear different views about waking up. But you already know a lot. Stay on track.
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Post by enigma on Dec 18, 2014 22:12:32 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something, conciousness + maya = character Hey andyparf ..........what you say is essentially correct, but your words are a little off. (It would be better put, our ordinary state). Our natural state should be to be awake. But we are born among sleeping people and at an early age we go to sleep. You are right, this is because we come to live through what you are calling character. I call it our cultural self, because we acquire it from the culture we happen to live in. You are correct, waking up is hard. It's hard because we are continually identified with our 'character', we always say "I" to our functions, thinking, feeling, acting (what we do, physical actions). Consciousness is separate from functions. Living through our thoughts, feelings and doings, our attention is continually captured by these. You can ask yourself, right now, where your attention is. Almost any time you ask this, you will find your attention is absorbed-in some thought, emotion or action. The beginning is living through your attention instead of it being captured. Just experiment with this........ Now, very shortly, if it hasn't happened yet, you are going to get a different view than I've expressed in this post. You're going to hear different views about waking up. But you already know a lot. Stay on track.IOW, pay no attention to those other views?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 18, 2014 23:43:23 GMT -5
Hey andyparf ..........what you say is essentially correct, but your words are a little off. (It would be better put, our ordinary state). Our natural state should be to be awake. But we are born among sleeping people and at an early age we go to sleep. You are right, this is because we come to live through what you are calling character. I call it our cultural self, because we acquire it from the culture we happen to live in. You are correct, waking up is hard. It's hard because we are continually identified with our 'character', we always say "I" to our functions, thinking, feeling, acting (what we do, physical actions). Consciousness is separate from functions. Living through our thoughts, feelings and doings, our attention is continually captured by these. You can ask yourself, right now, where your attention is. Almost any time you ask this, you will find your attention is absorbed-in some thought, emotion or action. The beginning is living through your attention instead of it being captured. Just experiment with this........ Now, very shortly, if it hasn't happened yet, you are going to get a different view than I've expressed in this post. You're going to hear different views about waking up. But you already know a lot. Stay on track.IOW, pay no attention to those other views? No......he can make up his own mind..........
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Post by laughter on Dec 19, 2014 1:04:07 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something, conciousness + maya = character As a first step, perhaps inquire, who is it that evaluates the character? Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed. There's no reason to go to war with it, instead just relax and look, attentively, and see the false for the false. The phenomenal world, the social world, the world of the masks ... this is all a movement of stimuli and response. What used to motivate and serve as impetus before the collapse might not anymore but something else will. Open up and be honest with yourself in inquiry, and let what comes move you.
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Post by enigma on Dec 19, 2014 2:13:59 GMT -5
IOW, pay no attention to those other views? No......he make up his own mind.......... He wouldn't have done that without your advice?
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Post by freejoy on Dec 19, 2014 5:37:28 GMT -5
I don't feel like I'm playing any part unconsciously. The parts or roles I play I'm aware of. We have lots of roles we play in life.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2014 9:37:46 GMT -5
No......he make up his own mind.......... He wouldn't have done that without your advice? I was only pointing out that his view is going to be a tiny minority here.......but he doesn't have to be overwhelmed, or leave. And thanks for helping me point that out.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 19, 2014 10:56:07 GMT -5
He wouldn't have done that without your advice? I was only pointing out that his view is going to be a tiny minority here.......but he doesn't have to be overwhelmed, or leave. And thanks for helping me point that out. Like SDP, I, too, warn people about this website. Most people who visit this site will have their viewpoints and statements attacked/challenged/questioned/derided/mocked/etc., and unless they are extremely self confident, or have a certain degree of realization, they will usually leave and search for sites that are less confrontational. I know this because of PM's and emails I've received from people who were frightened by what they encountered here. I always tell them that this is a rough neighborhood and not one for those who are faint of heart. Ha ha. For this reason we have many lurkers here who never post.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2014 14:58:05 GMT -5
I was only pointing out that his view is going to be a tiny minority here.......but he doesn't have to be overwhelmed, or leave. And thanks for helping me point that out. Like SDP, I, too, warn people about this website. Most people who visit this site will have their viewpoints and statements attacked/challenged/questioned/derided/mocked/etc., and unless they are extremely self confident, or have a certain degree of realization, they will usually leave and search for sites that are less confrontational. I know this because of PM's and emails I've received from people who were frightened by what they encountered here. I always tell them that this is a rough neighborhood and not one for those who are faint of heart. Ha ha. For this reason we have many lurkers here who never post. I think it's hardest for folks that claim some level of realization or whatever. For the clueless it's not so bad.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 19, 2014 17:48:48 GMT -5
the natural state of a person is to be asleep to play your character and never wake up waking up is so hard to do its like fighting against gravity, how can a character become concious that he is not real but just playing a role beyond the character what could you know for sure, nothing, something, conciousness + maya = character As a first step, perhaps inquire, who is it that evaluates the character? Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed. There's no reason to go to war with it, instead just relax and look, attentively, and see the false for the false. The phenomenal world, the social world, the world of the masks ... this is all a movement of stimuli and response. What used to motivate and serve as impetus before the collapse might not anymore but something else will. Open up and be honest with yourself in inquiry, and let what comes move you. "Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed". That just does not compute for me at all (that's probably another reason I'm not a non-dualist.....I've got to start making a list.........and checking it twice........ ........)......
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Post by figgles on Dec 19, 2014 17:56:49 GMT -5
As a first step, perhaps inquire, who is it that evaluates the character? Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed. There's no reason to go to war with it, instead just relax and look, attentively, and see the false for the false. The phenomenal world, the social world, the world of the masks ... this is all a movement of stimuli and response. What used to motivate and serve as impetus before the collapse might not anymore but something else will. Open up and be honest with yourself in inquiry, and let what comes move you. "Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed". That just does not compute for me at all (that's probably another reason I'm not a non-dualist.....I've got to start making a list.........and checking it twice........ ........)...... Yeah, I'm with you on that one SDP. AS I see it, conditioning and identity are tightly intertwined...so much so that if one goes, so does the other...
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Post by laughter on Dec 19, 2014 18:02:06 GMT -5
As a first step, perhaps inquire, who is it that evaluates the character? Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed. There's no reason to go to war with it, instead just relax and look, attentively, and see the false for the false. The phenomenal world, the social world, the world of the masks ... this is all a movement of stimuli and response. What used to motivate and serve as impetus before the collapse might not anymore but something else will. Open up and be honest with yourself in inquiry, and let what comes move you. "Conditioning remains even if the old identity has collapsed". That just does not compute for me at all (that's probably another reason I'm not a non-dualist.....I've got to start making a list.........and checking it twice........ ........)...... Oh, where would you draw the line? Would the temporary end of self-reference be the end of understanding the languages one has learned? Would it mean that you'd forget how to tie your shoes or how to use a fork? Would it be the undoing of your strands of DNA? If you haven't experienced it, you're only speculating. After that experience, self-reference is never the same again, and that's the experience that andyparf has described in his posting so far.
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Post by andyparf on Dec 19, 2014 19:06:17 GMT -5
you can only try to relate your experience where you are and maybe someone else can go further
its hard to do that without it becoming a contest
there is something that has stuck with me `What do you know for sure ?`
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