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Post by andyparf on Dec 3, 2014 18:33:37 GMT -5
could the spiritual search be the last level of delusion
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Dec 3, 2014 19:26:30 GMT -5
could the spiritual search be the last level of delusion One would hope so .
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Post by Reefs on Dec 4, 2014 0:10:05 GMT -5
could the spiritual search be the last level of delusion One would hope so . Unfortunately, hope is part of the delusion package.
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Post by psychoslice on Dec 4, 2014 0:12:43 GMT -5
Even believing you are at the end of your search is delusion.
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Post by Reefs on Dec 4, 2014 0:43:16 GMT -5
Even believing you are at the end of your search is delusion. Right, the subject just falls by the wayside and never arises again. No problem solved, nothing achieved. Nothing to be proud of, nothing to write home about.
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Post by psychoslice on Dec 4, 2014 0:47:35 GMT -5
Even believing you are at the end of your search is delusion. Right, the subject just falls by the wayside and never arises again. No problem solved, nothing achieved. Nothing to be proud of, nothing to write home about. Yea, you got it, you hit the nail on the head.
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Post by steven on Dec 4, 2014 1:39:42 GMT -5
could the spiritual search be the last level of delusion Have you considered that Delusion may be a Delusion?
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Post by enigma on Dec 4, 2014 2:09:59 GMT -5
could the spiritual search be the last level of delusion Have you considered that Delusion may be a Delusion? Not sober.
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Post by Transcix on Dec 4, 2014 2:22:02 GMT -5
If there is a hypothesis that the spiritual search is the last level of delusion then the accuracy of the hypothesis cannot be determined, because if the question had to be asked then it's surely the wrong question to ask at the present juncture..
Signs indicating spiritual attainment can point the way towards future additional attainment to some extent.. but mostly the recognition of such signs is far less the mechanism by which spiritual attainment proceeds, far more merely a natural bi-product..
After all it's not as if a spiritual practitioner has no idea of their bearings, no idea of how much or how little they've attained, and merely wait for some sign to reveal their absolute location and trajectory.. rather any spiritual practitioner at least somewhat advanced should have a fairly accurate idea of where they stand, and any evidence they encounter pertaining to where they stand is not accepted in blind faith on a blank canvas but through the prism of the current paradigm..
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Post by steven on Dec 4, 2014 9:34:56 GMT -5
Have you considered that Delusion may be a Delusion? Not sober. LoL Well....a little wine never hurt ?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 4, 2014 11:32:47 GMT -5
Not sober. LoL Well....a little wine never hurt ? You're in the vino tinto club?
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Post by Reefs on Dec 4, 2014 11:38:29 GMT -5
If there is a hypothesis that the spiritual search is the last level of delusion then the accuracy of the hypothesis cannot be determined, because if the question had to be asked then it's surely the wrong question to ask at the present juncture.. Signs indicating spiritual attainment can point the way towards future additional attainment to some extent.. but mostly the recognition of such signs is far less the mechanism by which spiritual attainment proceeds, far more merely a natural bi-product.. After all it's not as if a spiritual practitioner has no idea of their bearings, no idea of how much or how little they've attained, and merely wait for some sign to reveal their absolute location and trajectory.. rather any spiritual practitioner at least somewhat advanced should have a fairly accurate idea of where they stand, and any evidence they encounter pertaining to where they stand is not accepted in blind faith on a blank canvas but through the prism of the current paradigm.. The seeker, by definition, has not the slightest clue what he's actually after. If he would, he would stop the search immediately. Not because that's what all the sages say or the smart thing to do, but because what he's actually after is his own annihilation and as long as he can avoid that, he'll avoid exactly that from happening.
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Post by figgles on Dec 4, 2014 11:49:36 GMT -5
If there is a hypothesis that the spiritual search is the last level of delusion then the accuracy of the hypothesis cannot be determined, because if the question had to be asked then it's surely the wrong question to ask at the present juncture.. Signs indicating spiritual attainment can point the way towards future additional attainment to some extent.. but mostly the recognition of such signs is far less the mechanism by which spiritual attainment proceeds, far more merely a natural bi-product.. After all it's not as if a spiritual practitioner has no idea of their bearings, no idea of how much or how little they've attained, and merely wait for some sign to reveal their absolute location and trajectory.. rather any spiritual practitioner at least somewhat advanced should have a fairly accurate idea of where they stand, and any evidence they encounter pertaining to where they stand is not accepted in blind faith on a blank canvas but through the prism of the current paradigm.. The seeker, by definition, has not the slightest clue what he's actually after. If he would, he would stop the search immediately. Not because that's what all the sages say or the smart thing to do, but because what he's actually after is his own annihilation and as long as he can avoid that, he'll avoid exactly that from happening. In the Adya quote above, it sounds like that was precisely what happened to him; He did very much get a glimpse of what was at stake (otherwise why would he say 'this immense desire to realize reality or truth woke up inside?).....and did not 'stop the search immediately' as you say happens when the seeker sees what's really being sought. Adya also talks about something beyond the seeker driving the search...and folks seeing/sensing the impending annihilation, and thus,panicking and trying to turn of the search, and simply not being able to...almost as if the searching mechanism has an energy all it's own, pulling and beckoning forward. This has also been my experience, that once that seeking mechanism has been 'turned on'...there really is not turning off, regardless of what gets glimpsed, and regardless of how scary that might appear to ego. There is something beyond ego, driving the movement towards realizing wholeness.
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Post by zendancer on Dec 4, 2014 12:34:06 GMT -5
The seeker, by definition, has not the slightest clue what he's actually after. If he would, he would stop the search immediately. Not because that's what all the sages say or the smart thing to do, but because what he's actually after is his own annihilation and as long as he can avoid that, he'll avoid exactly that from happening. In the Adya quote above, it sounds like that was precisely what happened to him; He did very much get a glimpse of what was at stake (otherwise why would he say 'this immense desire to realize reality or truth woke up inside?).....and did not 'stop the search immediately' as you say happens when the seeker sees what's really being sought. Adya also talks about something beyond the seeker driving the search...and folks seeing/sensing the impending annihilation, and thus,panicking and trying to turn of the search, and simply not being able to...almost as if the searching mechanism has an energy all it's own, pulling and beckoning forward. This has also been my experience, that once that seeking mechanism has been 'turned on'...there really is not turning off, regardless of what gets glimpsed, and regardless of how scary that might appear to ego. There is something beyond ego, driving the movement towards realizing wholeness. Agreed, but this is true of everything. Every decision is being made by the Whole rather than the imaginary person, and some people are able to intuit that. I've done things in the past that made no rational sense, but I knew I had to do it, and that was even before I saw through the illusion of selfhood. Same same with the spiritual search. A seeker goes in search of the truth because that's what the cosmos undertakes using a particular body/mind. Those who become totally consumed by the search get to a point where the truth is all that matters, and many are quite willing to die for it even though they don't specifically know what that might mean. If a person understood what's going on, there wouldn't be any need to search for understanding. In the same way, if the keys to my car are in my hand, I don't have to go searching for them.
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Post by figgles on Dec 4, 2014 12:42:26 GMT -5
In the Adya quote above, it sounds like that was precisely what happened to him; He did very much get a glimpse of what was at stake (otherwise why would he say 'this immense desire to realize reality or truth woke up inside?).....and did not 'stop the search immediately' as you say happens when the seeker sees what's really being sought. Adya also talks about something beyond the seeker driving the search...and folks seeing/sensing the impending annihilation, and thus,panicking and trying to turn of the search, and simply not being able to...almost as if the searching mechanism has an energy all it's own, pulling and beckoning forward. This has also been my experience, that once that seeking mechanism has been 'turned on'...there really is not turning off, regardless of what gets glimpsed, and regardless of how scary that might appear to ego. There is something beyond ego, driving the movement towards realizing wholeness. Agreed, but this is true of everything. Every decision is being made by the Whole rather than the imaginary person, and some people are able to intuit that. I've done things in the past that made no rational sense, but I knew I had to do it, and that was even before I saw through the illusion of selfhood. Same same with the spiritual search. A seeker goes in search of the truth because that's what the cosmos undertakes using a particular body/mind. Those who become totally consumed by the search get to a point where the truth is all that matters, and many are quite willing to die for it even though they don't specifically know what that might mean. If a person understood what's going on, there wouldn't be any need to search for understanding. In the same way, if the keys to my car are in my hand, I don't have to go searching for them. Yes, agree with all of that. What I hear Adya saying above is that sometimes folks get a glimpse...a glimmer....even so much so that they become fearful and want to turn the search off....so what's happened there is that they got a glimpse of what's going on, but obviously not the whole enchilada, or you are right, the search would end right there, as there would no longer be anything 'to get.'
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