Don't Cast Pearls Before Swine

[justlikeyou]

Here is an interesting discussion from a Course in Miracles.

[enigma]

Nov 20, 2014 19:08:40 GMT -5 justlikeyou said:

Here is an interesting discussion from a Course in Miracles.

I wouldn't want to be preached to by an ACIMer either. I would be the swine to their 'pearls' fer sure.

It would be different, of course, if I were to join an ACIM forum.

[Deleted]

Nov 20, 2014 20:48:52 GMT -5 enigma said:

Nov 20, 2014 19:08:40 GMT -5 justlikeyou said:

Here is an interesting discussion from a Course in Miracles.

I wouldn't want to be preached to by an ACIMer either. I would be the swine to their 'pearls' fer sure.

It would be different, of course, if I were to join an ACIM forum.

How so?

[stardustpilgrim]

Nov 24, 2014 7:16:20 GMT -5 @wren said:

Nov 20, 2014 20:48:52 GMT -5 enigma said:

I wouldn't want to be preached to by an ACIMer either. I would be the swine to their 'pearls' fer sure.

It would be different, of course, if I were to join an ACIM forum.

How so?

He would then be "a wolf in sheep's clothing".



..........(get it.....wink-wink nudge-nudge......... ......... ........... ............ ............. ................ )...........

[enigma]

Nov 24, 2014 7:16:20 GMT -5 @wren said:

Nov 20, 2014 20:48:52 GMT -5 enigma said:

I wouldn't want to be preached to by an ACIMer either. I would be the swine to their 'pearls' fer sure.

It would be different, of course, if I were to join an ACIM forum.

How so?

I mean that I would expect to be engaged in discussion about ACIM, and wouldn't resist it. Likewise, one joining this forum could expect to be engaged in discussions of a nonduality nature.

[enigma]

Nov 24, 2014 11:54:33 GMT -5 stardustpilgrim said:

Nov 24, 2014 7:16:20 GMT -5 @wren said:

How so?

He would then be "a wolf in sheep's clothing".



..........(get it.....wink-wink nudge-nudge......... ......... ........... ............ ............. ................ )...........

Yes, that's true. I have, in fact, been on a couple of ACIM forums, and did play the wolfy type fer sure. Thing is, I have no issue with ACIM, just with some of it's students.

[tzujanli]

Home Page Banner:
This board is intended for anyone with a sincere interest in a spiritual path or teacher and is not limited to those interested in spiritual teachers reviewed at Spiritualteachers.org. Only members may post.
Think of this place as a virtual ashram and consider these words by Richard Rose: "We need a spot on earth upon which to meet. A homing ground, but not an intellectual prison. A library and clubhouse of philosophers. A place with quiet rooms where a person can be alone if he desires. A clearinghouse of contacts, or a place where a cardfile might be kept with names of those who wish to be contacted.... Many people with philosophic drive feel no compulsion to mingle with anyone except their colleagues. But these people must be unaware of future growth opportunities for themselves, and they must be unaware that they must help others in order to grow themselves."

The banner, above, doesn't mention that nonduality is the forum's endorsed philosophy..

[laughter]

Nov 24, 2014 22:26:31 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

Home Page Banner:
This board is intended for anyone with a sincere interest in a spiritual path or teacher and is not limited to those interested in spiritual teachers reviewed at Spiritualteachers.org. Only members may post.
Think of this place as a virtual ashram and consider these words by Richard Rose: "We need a spot on earth upon which to meet. A homing ground, but not an intellectual prison. A library and clubhouse of philosophers. A place with quiet rooms where a person can be alone if he desires. A clearinghouse of contacts, or a place where a cardfile might be kept with names of those who wish to be contacted.... Many people with philosophic drive feel no compulsion to mingle with anyone except their colleagues. But these people must be unaware of future growth opportunities for themselves, and they must be unaware that they must help others in order to grow themselves."

The banner, above, doesn't mention that nonduality is the forum's endorsed philosophy..

It's an inclusive invitation, but if you follow the link to Shaun's main site you can see that the content there is about nonduality. That obviously attracts a focus on that interest to this forum.

Also, it seems to me that the TAT foundation, which is apparently made up largely of students of Richard Rose, has nonduality as a central focus, and Richard is also referenced in the banner.

[figgles]

Nov 25, 2014 6:19:04 GMT -5 laughter said:

Nov 24, 2014 22:26:31 GMT -5 tzujanli said:

The banner, above, doesn't mention that nonduality is the forum's endorsed philosophy..

It's an inclusive invitation, but if you follow the link to Shaun's main site you can see that the content there is about nonduality. That obviously attracts a focus on that interest to this forum.

Also, it seems to me that the TAT foundation, which is apparently made up largely of students of Richard Rose, has nonduality as a central focus, and Richard is also referenced in the banner.

For a few weeks now, since these assertions regarding the 'subject matter of this forum' have been bandied about, with further assertions added,  that certain folks here (like me), obviously   have a deep  beef  with (or outright hatred of)  non-duality, and thus, are out of synch with  the basic tenets of this forum,  I've taken some time to really look into the philosophy/message of the  founder of this forum, Shawn Nevins.

Indeed, He's founded this site mainly on his reviews of other teachers, but Shawn is undoubtedly, a teacher in his own right...whether he chooses to be seen as such or not. 

Here's just one of his essays, posted on the main website affiliated with this forum,  that I resonate with so deeply...parts of it brought tears to my eyes...

Anyway, seems I"ve got my reading cut out for me, what with discovering the treasure-house of Shawns material, and with Andrew's book making it's way to me in the mail, I'll be busy for a bit.

Needless to say, there is little doubt after reading Shawn's essays and seeing the kinds of movies he makes, that I'm in the right place here, participating on this forum. It's rare for me to read the words of another and resonate to the degree that I do with Shawn's material. 

In Defense of the Small
by Shawn Nevins

This is an essay about living, which may be surprising for a couple of reasons. For one, I usually directly or indirectly write about death, rather than life. Some might charge I am life-denying rather than life-affirming; that I've hardly lived; that I turned my back upon the world. The other reason, is that "small" and "living" are two words that generally contradict rather than complement one another in the popular imagination. Despite these uncertain qualifications, I propose to answer, "What does it mean to really live?"

For several years, my home was a tin-plated shack in the backwoods of West Virginia. Our running water was a jug by the sink, and our other amenities included an indiscriminate collection of mattresses of dubious age, two bare bulb ceiling lights, a cast-iron water heater reincarnated as a woodstove, and an outhouse. I now live within twenty minutes of downtown San Francisco, have every conceivable delicacy at my fingertips, and a view of the bay from my living room. Which scenario is real living? I have lived alone, with roommates, and now with a partner. Which one is real living? I have lived in fear and in contentment, with ignorance and certainty, with a shred of wisdom and with a sackful of illusions.

Most of what people call living makes the world more bland - we become inured to experience and constantly seek novelty: bigger, louder, faster. We collect experiences like bird watchers filling out their life lists, and our literature chronicles our desire: 1000 Places to See Before You Die, The Ultimate Bucket List, What Do You Want to Do Before You Die? Doing, Collecting, Having. Yet, we are also pulled by nostalgic yearnings for a simpler time where the golden rays of dawn tint the scene, memory teeters in perfect balance between one moment and the next, and a deep sigh of satisfaction fills our being. We rest on the old front porch, by the creek in the forest, in the valley meadow, or in the desert canyon. Just as our bucket is never full, though, our nostalgic memory never seems to match where we presently stand. Or does it? "Where do you presently stand?" is the key question, because that is where you are living.

Some say that enlightenment has nothing to do with living. There is a lot of truth in that. If we really knew how to live, we might not seek enlightenment at all, for enlightenment automatically brings a perspective that is not of this world. That is why we haul out the word "transcendent." But is transcending life really living life? Much of what drives us to seek an awakening is a desire to escape the world, or be somewhere, something, someone other than we are right now. So we lock our selves in meditation halls, assume detached stances in which we try to distance our self from our experience, and alternately deny and indulge every sort of sense all to break free from the bondage of life.

You can collect experiences, or nostalgically yearn for something that never was, or pretend to transcend the whole messy fray... and likely stumble from one posture to the next like a drunken yogi. Or, as you already know, you can just "be."

We say "be here now" and "live in the moment," but doing it is another matter. Because, as you've heard, doing is in the way of being.

Others say we must die in order to live.

I say that in the process of dying we learn how to live. You knew I was going to work death into this somehow....

I maintain there is as much beauty and wonder in a slice of a moment as there is in an hour at an amusement park. Besides, what is the hour made of, if not slices of moments? Noticing that, I support the exhortation of Douglas Harding to "simplify!"

So I speak in defense of the small: for the view out my window which changes every hour of every day of the year and is never the same. For the feel of a tree, the sound of a car door closing. For the innumerable, ineffable, myriad of sounds, smells, and sights that surround me every minute of every day offering a lifetime of beauty in the palm of my hand. I speak for the one-to-one conversation in a quiet coffee house or on the couch before a darkened television. This is the beginning of living.

I speak in defense of god in the ordinary.

And I say that dying is wrapped in the fabric of living. I say that life is the moments between death and death is in the moments between life. In recognizing our life and death, we come to a fuller living. This is not just an intellectual exercise, though, you must see and feel it.

You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. This exploration of awareness expands rather than contracts our perception of novelty. A plastic bag circling in the wind becomes a vision of God. Every moment becomes an amazing experience that we receive rather than seize. It doesn't mean we don't watch the fireworks, but the immensity of sky in which they take place is so much grander. Likewise, the immensity in which our thoughts take place, in which our lives take place, is like the feeling of the surface of our skin - we don't notice unless we pay attention and we don't pay attention unless we allow ourselves the space in which to notice.

The myriad things are the myriad things, but the one thing is the one.

Simplify. Pay attention to the ordinary and obvious. Notice the space in which all occurs. See the arising and falling of all things. You'll live a kinder, gentler life; become a better neighbor, father, mother, lover, brother, and friend; reduce your footprint on the planet, save money, become more creative, be happier and reduce stress. In short, you'll really live, and in so doing you may see a profound truth about your relationship to death.

Wherever I look, there by the grace of god am I. 

The bolded bit about the plastic bag really made me smile...brings to mind the conversations E and I have had regarding the bit of plastic in the bush that I initially thought was a flower and later, came to understand was 'just a piece of plastic', but nevertheless, it continued to evoke appreciation and even a sense of joy, when I looked at it.

But there's so much else  there that hits me:

"I say that in the process of dying we learn how to live. You knew I was going to work death into this somehow...."


"I maintain there is as much beauty and wonder in a slice of a moment as there is in an hour at an amusement park."

"I speak in defense of god in the ordinary."

"And I say that dying is wrapped in the fabric of living. I say that life is the moments between death and death is in the moments between life. In recognizing our life and death, we come to a fuller living. This is not just an intellectual exercise, though, you must see and feel it."


"You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. "

[psychoslice]

Not casting pearls before swine isn't really a negative statement, the swine is our carnal self, not our true self, as long as you think you are your carnal self, you will be the swine, meaning unclean, not spiritual.

[enigma]

Dec 2, 2014 23:37:01 GMT -5 figgles said:

Nov 25, 2014 6:19:04 GMT -5 laughter said:

It's an inclusive invitation, but if you follow the link to Shaun's main site you can see that the content there is about nonduality. That obviously attracts a focus on that interest to this forum.

Also, it seems to me that the TAT foundation, which is apparently made up largely of students of Richard Rose, has nonduality as a central focus, and Richard is also referenced in the banner.

For a few weeks now, since these assertions regarding the 'subject matter of this forum' have been bandied about, with further assertions added,  that certain folks here (like me), obviously   have a deep  beef  with (or outright hatred of)  non-duality, and thus, are out of synch with  the basic tenets of this forum,  I've taken some time to really look into the philosophy/message of the  founder of this forum, Shawn Nevins.

Indeed, He's founded this site mainly on his reviews of other teachers, but Shawn is undoubtedly, a teacher in his own right...whether he chooses to be seen as such or not. 

Here's just one of his essays, posted on the main website affiliated with this forum,  that I resonate with so deeply...parts of it brought tears to my eyes...

Anyway, seems I"ve got my reading cut out for me, what with discovering the treasure-house of Shawns material, and with Andrew's book making it's way to me in the mail, I'll be busy for a bit.

Needless to say, there is little doubt after reading Shawn's essays and seeing the kinds of movies he makes, that I'm in the right place here, participating on this forum. It's rare for me to read the words of another and resonate to the degree that I do with Shawn's material. 

In Defense of the Small
by Shawn Nevins

This is an essay about living, which may be surprising for a couple of reasons. For one, I usually directly or indirectly write about death, rather than life. Some might charge I am life-denying rather than life-affirming; that I've hardly lived; that I turned my back upon the world. The other reason, is that "small" and "living" are two words that generally contradict rather than complement one another in the popular imagination. Despite these uncertain qualifications, I propose to answer, "What does it mean to really live?"

For several years, my home was a tin-plated shack in the backwoods of West Virginia. Our running water was a jug by the sink, and our other amenities included an indiscriminate collection of mattresses of dubious age, two bare bulb ceiling lights, a cast-iron water heater reincarnated as a woodstove, and an outhouse. I now live within twenty minutes of downtown San Francisco, have every conceivable delicacy at my fingertips, and a view of the bay from my living room. Which scenario is real living? I have lived alone, with roommates, and now with a partner. Which one is real living? I have lived in fear and in contentment, with ignorance and certainty, with a shred of wisdom and with a sackful of illusions.

Most of what people call living makes the world more bland - we become inured to experience and constantly seek novelty: bigger, louder, faster. We collect experiences like bird watchers filling out their life lists, and our literature chronicles our desire: 1000 Places to See Before You Die, The Ultimate Bucket List, What Do You Want to Do Before You Die? Doing, Collecting, Having. Yet, we are also pulled by nostalgic yearnings for a simpler time where the golden rays of dawn tint the scene, memory teeters in perfect balance between one moment and the next, and a deep sigh of satisfaction fills our being. We rest on the old front porch, by the creek in the forest, in the valley meadow, or in the desert canyon. Just as our bucket is never full, though, our nostalgic memory never seems to match where we presently stand. Or does it? "Where do you presently stand?" is the key question, because that is where you are living.

Some say that enlightenment has nothing to do with living. There is a lot of truth in that. If we really knew how to live, we might not seek enlightenment at all, for enlightenment automatically brings a perspective that is not of this world. That is why we haul out the word "transcendent." But is transcending life really living life? Much of what drives us to seek an awakening is a desire to escape the world, or be somewhere, something, someone other than we are right now. So we lock our selves in meditation halls, assume detached stances in which we try to distance our self from our experience, and alternately deny and indulge every sort of sense all to break free from the bondage of life.

You can collect experiences, or nostalgically yearn for something that never was, or pretend to transcend the whole messy fray... and likely stumble from one posture to the next like a drunken yogi. Or, as you already know, you can just "be."

We say "be here now" and "live in the moment," but doing it is another matter. Because, as you've heard, doing is in the way of being.

Others say we must die in order to live.

I say that in the process of dying we learn how to live. You knew I was going to work death into this somehow....

I maintain there is as much beauty and wonder in a slice of a moment as there is in an hour at an amusement park. Besides, what is the hour made of, if not slices of moments? Noticing that, I support the exhortation of Douglas Harding to "simplify!"

So I speak in defense of the small: for the view out my window which changes every hour of every day of the year and is never the same. For the feel of a tree, the sound of a car door closing. For the innumerable, ineffable, myriad of sounds, smells, and sights that surround me every minute of every day offering a lifetime of beauty in the palm of my hand. I speak for the one-to-one conversation in a quiet coffee house or on the couch before a darkened television. This is the beginning of living.

I speak in defense of god in the ordinary.

And I say that dying is wrapped in the fabric of living. I say that life is the moments between death and death is in the moments between life. In recognizing our life and death, we come to a fuller living. This is not just an intellectual exercise, though, you must see and feel it.

You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. This exploration of awareness expands rather than contracts our perception of novelty. A plastic bag circling in the wind becomes a vision of God. Every moment becomes an amazing experience that we receive rather than seize. It doesn't mean we don't watch the fireworks, but the immensity of sky in which they take place is so much grander. Likewise, the immensity in which our thoughts take place, in which our lives take place, is like the feeling of the surface of our skin - we don't notice unless we pay attention and we don't pay attention unless we allow ourselves the space in which to notice.

The myriad things are the myriad things, but the one thing is the one.

Simplify. Pay attention to the ordinary and obvious. Notice the space in which all occurs. See the arising and falling of all things. You'll live a kinder, gentler life; become a better neighbor, father, mother, lover, brother, and friend; reduce your footprint on the planet, save money, become more creative, be happier and reduce stress. In short, you'll really live, and in so doing you may see a profound truth about your relationship to death.

Wherever I look, there by the grace of god am I. 

The bolded bit about the plastic bag really made me smile...brings to mind the conversations E and I have had regarding the bit of plastic in the bush that I initially thought was a flower and later, came to understand was 'just a piece of plastic', but nevertheless, it continued to evoke appreciation and even a sense of joy, when I looked at it.

But there's so much else  there that hits me:

"I say that in the process of dying we learn how to live. You knew I was going to work death into this somehow...."


"I maintain there is as much beauty and wonder in a slice of a moment as there is in an hour at an amusement park."

"I speak in defense of god in the ordinary."

"And I say that dying is wrapped in the fabric of living. I say that life is the moments between death and death is in the moments between life. In recognizing our life and death, we come to a fuller living. This is not just an intellectual exercise, though, you must see and feel it."


"You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. "

[laughter]

Dec 2, 2014 23:37:01 GMT -5 figgles said:

"You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. "

Well yes, we share Shawn as an influence in our lives for sure.

Before 2009 the only notion I had of "enlightenment" was a cartoon image of a guy with a hookah sitting lotus. Just wasn't interested. It was Sam Harris without the nonduality.

When the switch flipped it was natural to turn to the internet. Opening up with a story of the bottom suddenly falling out paid dividends in reply. People would drop little pearls like "wisdom tells me I'm nothing, love tells me I'm everything, and between the two my life flows" ... how could someone not react with "wow, who wrote that"?

This is culture. This is the process where one life touches another, and in these words that noone owns, on this canvas quilt without a home, evolution happens.

We resonated with pretty much the same parts of the Defense essay. Like Shawn, I've had a wide dynamic range of life situation. I've lived on the Upper East Side, put in miles around the reservoir running track and worked for Goldman Sachs. I've also lived where I can see drug dealers and prostitutes flow through the view of my front window, blown by the winds of their desires and twitching with their mad and wonderful profanities in an embrace of the wild.

There is God there, yes. In any moment, in any sensation, what is ever beyond defense is what is untouchable and yet unmistakeably felt in that inescapable embrace. What cannot be rended is still and quiet, but much like the threads that weave together our culture, each frenzied spasm, every angry barking dog and even the ugliest broken shard of concrete has that silence, that Godness, woven into the fabric of their being.

What is ironically subject to defense is what modestly flows between the two. The thread of undivided attention that would, as Shawn put it, expand our exploration of awareness rather than contract our perception of novelty, can seem gossamer. This is just an appearance though. It is only a rumor that being is in the way of doing, as there is no doing without being.

In the being that intertwines with doing there is always the looking, and in that looking, the thread that ties us to the one thing that is the one thing tugs away from the false. The dance of the plastic bag in the wind is just as lovely as the order of a well-arranged and elegant bouquet, but in looking in the direction of the tug, these two myriad things are never mistaken for one another.

I'm of course quite grateful for the resources that Shawn provided with the ratings page and the opportunity to make the online acquaintance of all here. The impact to our lives that spirituality can have leads naturally into the trap of an image of ourselves as special relative to those who seem oblivious to that impact.

What these resources afford is a shortcut home from the drunken stupor of spiritual arrogance. Indeed, This. Is. It.

[quinn]

Good read, Laughter. I particularly like this:

This is culture. This is the process where one life touches another, and in these words that noone owns, on this canvas quilt without a home, evolution happens.

One of the best descriptions of a subject that isn't often talked about - relationship - that I've heard.

[figgles]

Dec 3, 2014 3:20:14 GMT -5 enigma said:

Dec 2, 2014 23:37:01 GMT -5 figgles said:

For a few weeks now, since these assertions regarding the 'subject matter of this forum' have been bandied about, with further assertions added,  that certain folks here (like me), obviously   have a deep  beef  with (or outright hatred of)  non-duality, and thus, are out of synch with  the basic tenets of this forum,  I've taken some time to really look into the philosophy/message of the  founder of this forum, Shawn Nevins.

Indeed, He's founded this site mainly on his reviews of other teachers, but Shawn is undoubtedly, a teacher in his own right...whether he chooses to be seen as such or not. 

Here's just one of his essays, posted on the main website affiliated with this forum,  that I resonate with so deeply...parts of it brought tears to my eyes...

Anyway, seems I"ve got my reading cut out for me, what with discovering the treasure-house of Shawns material, and with Andrew's book making it's way to me in the mail, I'll be busy for a bit.

Needless to say, there is little doubt after reading Shawn's essays and seeing the kinds of movies he makes, that I'm in the right place here, participating on this forum. It's rare for me to read the words of another and resonate to the degree that I do with Shawn's material. 



The bolded bit about the plastic bag really made me smile...brings to mind the conversations E and I have had regarding the bit of plastic in the bush that I initially thought was a flower and later, came to understand was 'just a piece of plastic', but nevertheless, it continued to evoke appreciation and even a sense of joy, when I looked at it.

But there's so much else  there that hits me:

"I say that in the process of dying we learn how to live. You knew I was going to work death into this somehow...."


"I maintain there is as much beauty and wonder in a slice of a moment as there is in an hour at an amusement park."

"I speak in defense of god in the ordinary."

"And I say that dying is wrapped in the fabric of living. I say that life is the moments between death and death is in the moments between life. In recognizing our life and death, we come to a fuller living. This is not just an intellectual exercise, though, you must see and feel it."


"You will never know where you stand unless you look. I say look, and follow that fascination, let the muse take your hand and guide you. "

Didn't see the movie myself....hehe..interestingly enough though, I just received Andrew's book, "A New Consciousness: A New World" (really, really good btw ) in the mail this morn, and a mere 15 pages in, this:

"Equally though, as the film "American Beauty" depicted so well in a scene in which a paper bag is blowing in the wind, God can be found in the mundane and seemingly trivial...in the leaf, under the rock, shopping in the grocery store, working in the office. There is nothing that is not an opening to God, because the God I am talking about is in all things....."

gotta love those synchronicies!

[earnest]

Dec 3, 2014 17:36:02 GMT -5 figgles said:

Dec 3, 2014 3:20:14 GMT -5 enigma said:

Didn't see the movie myself....hehe..interestingly enough though, I just received Andrew's book, "A New Consciousness: A New World" (really, really good btw ) in the mail this morn, and a mere 15 pages in, this:

"Equally though, as the film "American Beauty" depicted so well in a scene in which a paper bag is blowing in the wind, God can be found in the mundane and seemingly trivial...in the leaf, under the rock, shopping in the grocery store, working in the office. There is nothing that is not an opening to God, because the God I am talking about is in all things....."

gotta love those synchronicies!

In all things no matter what we think about those things it seems to me. Just as much in the birth of a child as in an isis terrorist beheading an aid worker.