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Post by zendancer on Nov 7, 2014 21:54:34 GMT -5
Many people have the idea that self-realization solves all problems and leads to a peaceful unhurried life. Although this may happen, it also may not. The only thing that definitely changes with self-realization is that seeking comes to an end (because the imaginary seeker vanishes and only isness remains). What does this mean from the perspective of everyday life? It means that life unfolds however it unfolds, and thoughts are seen to be thoughts, only (which may or may not correspond to the unfolding).
For example, a sage may find herself working around the clock because that is what she has to do. She may think, "If I would exercise an hour each day and meditate an hour each day, I would probably enjoy greater health and greater mental spaciousness." Nevertheless, that isn't what happens. She continues working long hours, seven days per week, and realizes that her thoughts about exercise, meditation, health, and greater mental spaciousness are just thoughts. She accepts the fact that she must work long hours because that is how life is unfolding at the moment, and her thoughts are not corresponding with what is happening. In the future she may exercise and meditate, but at the moment it is clear that life has a different agenda.
An acquaintance and her husband decided to retire and spend a year traveling around the world--a lifelong dream. Two weeks after retiring, her husband developed a bad headache, went to a doctor, got x-rayed, learned that he had an inoperable brain cancer, and was told that he would be lucky to live two weeks. He died about two weeks later. The couple had planned to travel the world together, but life had a different agenda.
A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home.
Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 7, 2014 22:51:00 GMT -5
Many people have the idea that self-realization solves all problems and leads to a peaceful unhurried life. Although this may happen, it also may not. The only thing that definitely changes with self-realization is that seeking comes to an end (because the imaginary seeker vanishes and only isness remains). What does this mean from the perspective of everyday life? It means that life unfolds however it unfolds, and thoughts are seen to be thoughts, only (which may or may not correspond to the unfolding). For example, a sage may find herself working around the clock because that is what she has to do. She may think, "If I would exercise an hour each day and meditate an hour each day, I would probably enjoy greater health and greater mental spaciousness." Nevertheless, that isn't what happens. She continues working long hours, seven days per week, and realizes that her thoughts about exercise, meditation, health, and greater mental spaciousness are just thoughts. She accepts the fact that she must work long hours because that is how life is unfolding at the moment, and her thoughts are not corresponding with what is happening. In the future she may exercise and meditate, but at the moment it is clear that life has a different agenda. An acquaintance and her husband decided to retire and spend a year traveling around the world--a lifelong dream. Two weeks after retiring, her husband developed a bad headache, went to a doctor, got x-rayed, learned that he had an inoperable brain cancer, and was told that he would be lucky to live two weeks. He died about two weeks later. The couple had planned to travel the world together, but life had a different agenda. A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home. Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. In your interpretation of the experience, the imaginary seeker vanishes.. In my interpretation of the experience, the real seeker's intentions lead to greater clarity about her relationship with isness.. and, clarity is liberating, so that might cause someone to imagine they have vanished.. Getting tangled-up with ideas about self/no-self is not beneficial if the intention is clarity and understanding.. i am reminded of the attachment to speculation about how a baby's mind works, or a baby's lack of ego, or other such projected justifications for beliefs about babies' existence, when the facts are that babies cannot survive without the assistance of evolved and skilled body-minds to care for them.. where both/and function as unified totality more productively than the either/or divisiveness.. As much as thoughts fail, they prevail.. so, avoid attachment AND rejection, just pay attention to what works and build on that.. |
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Post by andrew on Nov 8, 2014 7:14:13 GMT -5
A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home.Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. Can totally relate to that. What's that saying....'God laughs at our plans'. |
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Post by tenka on Nov 8, 2014 8:44:14 GMT -5
I would say it can depend on one's awareness attained after the realization . I would say for those that have self realized one can never undo what has transpired from that moment but if we were to localise self realization beyond a dream to then entertain the dream once again then one is subjected to the dreams conditions to a degree .
If we were to relate normal life to the dream then there can be an array of feelings had for the one that once again entertains such an environment . The joy of the realization can be short lived and the immense sufferings of the return to an environment that hosts an awareness that is not of the realization it's self can cause a tremendous amount of sadness and unsettlement .
I suppose its down to how long one holds on to a particular awareness that allows one to perceive in a certain way . A certain way that reflects the love in everything .
It's perhaps easier to realize the love in everything when one is not suffering, in a way one can only realize that everything is love in the absence of suffering so when one entertains suffering again one can only hold onto what is realized beyond it whilst being aware of it at the same time .
Without a doubt realization takes the supposed edge off of what one experienced in everyday life but unless one is fully submerged in the effects of realization one is always going to notice what one noticed prior to the realization but what will be noticed will be perceived differently .
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Post by runstill on Nov 8, 2014 12:35:27 GMT -5
I would say it can depend on one's awareness attained after the realization . I would say for those that have self realized one can never undo what has transpired from that moment but if we were to localise self realization beyond a dream to then entertain the dream once again then one is subjected to the dreams conditions to a degree . If we were to relate normal life to the dream then there can be an array of feelings had for the one that once again entertains such an environment . The joy of the realization can be short lived and the immense sufferings of the return to an environment that hosts an awareness that is not of the realization it's self can cause a tremendous amount of sadness and unsettlement . I suppose its down to how long one holds on to a particular awareness that allows one to perceive in a certain way . A certain way that reflects the love in everything . It's perhaps easier to realize the love in everything when one is not suffering, in a way one can only realize that everything is love in the absence of suffering so when one entertains suffering again one can only hold onto what is realized beyond it whilst being aware of it at the same time . Without a doubt realization takes the supposed edge off of what one experienced in everyday life but unless one is fully submerged in the effects of realization one is always going to notice what one noticed prior to the realization but what will be noticed will be perceived differently . I pretty much agree with this, I think a number of people fall under the distinction you make, it's important to note that when in the state where suffering can arise the thought process can be followed to what triggered the suffering and looked at , it is easily seen it was a thought with a conditioned response bringing up other thought which cascades into more suffering thoughts. They are suffering thoughts happening to the thinker of thoughts, this thinker is only thought itself.... |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 8, 2014 13:09:07 GMT -5
I would say it can depend on one's awareness attained after the realization . I would say for those that have self realized one can never undo what has transpired from that moment but if we were to localise self realization beyond a dream to then entertain the dream once again then one is subjected to the dreams conditions to a degree . If we were to relate normal life to the dream then there can be an array of feelings had for the one that once again entertains such an environment . The joy of the realization can be short lived and the immense sufferings of the return to an environment that hosts an awareness that is not of the realization it's self can cause a tremendous amount of sadness and unsettlement . I suppose its down to how long one holds on to a particular awareness that allows one to perceive in a certain way . A certain way that reflects the love in everything . It's perhaps easier to realize the love in everything when one is not suffering, in a way one can only realize that everything is love in the absence of suffering so when one entertains suffering again one can only hold onto what is realized beyond it whilst being aware of it at the same time . Without a doubt realization takes the supposed edge off of what one experienced in everyday life but unless one is fully submerged in the effects of realization one is always going to notice what one noticed prior to the realization but what will be noticed will be perceived differently . My post was probably misunderstood, because it was not referring to any kind of suffering. A sage accepts with equanimity whatever is happening whether it coincides with thoughts or not. I was only pointing out the humor involved in seeing how life sometimes dramatically and surprisingly shows us that a particular train of thoughts is erroneous. In my case, I had been planning all day to get a charger for my cellphone, but when I was actually driving in the direction of a store to get one, it suddenly became obvious that it wasn't going to happen. I wasn't dismayed; I simply found it to be quite funny, and it gave me a pretty good laugh. |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 8, 2014 13:10:10 GMT -5
A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home.Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. Can totally relate to that. What's that saying....'God laughs at our plans'. Ha ha. Yes. |
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Post by justlikeyou on Nov 8, 2014 13:24:26 GMT -5
Can totally relate to that. What's that saying....'God laughs at our plans'. Ha ha. Yes. As a youngster I was first exposed to the wisdom of the Sages on my grandmother's Salada tea bags. One that has always stuck was "Life is what happens while you're making other plans".  |
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Post by laughter on Nov 8, 2014 15:49:14 GMT -5
A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home.Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. Can totally relate to that. What's that saying....'God laughs at our plans'. It goes something like ... if you wanna' hear God laugh, make a plan.  Never knew that the "best laid plans of mice and men" was from a Scottish poet, and according to whoever did this wiki, Steinbeck got the title of his tale of Lenny the doomed innocent, from it. Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty
Wi bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murdering pattle.
I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
An' fellow mortal!
I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
'S a sma' request;
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't.
Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's win's ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!
Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste,
An' weary winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.
That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turned out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld.
But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!
Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The preset only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear! |
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Post by andrew on Nov 8, 2014 16:48:52 GMT -5
Can totally relate to that. What's that saying....'God laughs at our plans'. It goes something like ... if you wanna' hear God laugh, make a plan. Never knew that the "best laid plans of mice and men" was from a Scottish poet, and according to whoever did this wiki, Steinbeck got the title of his tale of Lenny the doomed innocent, from it. Wee, sleekit, cow'rin, tim'rous beastie,
O, what a panic's in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty
Wi bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an' chase thee,
Wi' murdering pattle.
I'm truly sorry man's dominion
Has broken Nature's social union,
An' justifies that ill opinion
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth born companion
An' fellow mortal!
I doubt na, whyles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
'S a sma' request;
I'll get a blessin wi' the lave,
An' never miss't.
Thy wee-bit housie, too, in ruin!
It's silly wa's the win's are strewin!
An' naething, now, to big a new ane,
O' foggage green!
An' bleak December's win's ensuin,
Baith snell an' keen!
Thou saw the fields laid bare an' waste,
An' weary winter comin fast,
An' cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell,
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro' thy cell.
That wee bit heap o' leaves an' stibble,
Has cost thee monie a weary nibble!
Now thou's turned out, for a' thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter's sleety dribble,
An' cranreuch cauld.
But Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men
Gang aft agley,
An' lea'e us nought but grief an' pain,
For promis'd joy!
Still thou are blest, compared wi' me!
The preset only toucheth thee:
But och! I backward cast my e'e,
On prospects drear!
An' forward, tho' I canna see,
I guess an' fear!Interestingly, you are the second person in a week to share a Rob Burns poem with me. I'm in Scotland next week, I might have a wee leuk! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 11:50:19 GMT -5
Many people have the idea that self-realization solves all problems and leads to a peaceful unhurried life. Although this may happen, it also may not. The only thing that definitely changes with self-realization is that seeking comes to an end (because the imaginary seeker vanishes and only isness remains). What does this mean from the perspective of everyday life? It means that life unfolds however it unfolds, and thoughts are seen to be thoughts, only (which may or may not correspond to the unfolding). For example, a sage may find herself working around the clock because that is what she has to do. She may think, "If I would exercise an hour each day and meditate an hour each day, I would probably enjoy greater health and greater mental spaciousness." Nevertheless, that isn't what happens. She continues working long hours, seven days per week, and realizes that her thoughts about exercise, meditation, health, and greater mental spaciousness are just thoughts. She accepts the fact that she must work long hours because that is how life is unfolding at the moment, and her thoughts are not corresponding with what is happening. In the future she may exercise and meditate, but at the moment it is clear that life has a different agenda. An acquaintance and her husband decided to retire and spend a year traveling around the world--a lifelong dream. Two weeks after retiring, her husband developed a bad headache, went to a doctor, got x-rayed, learned that he had an inoperable brain cancer, and was told that he would be lucky to live two weeks. He died about two weeks later. The couple had planned to travel the world together, but life had a different agenda. A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home. Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them.
In my interpretation of the experience, the real seeker's intentions lead to greater clarity about her relationship with isness.. and, clarity is liberating, so that might cause someone to imagine they have vanished..I think this is an excellent challenge to the no-selfies out there. It's not about realizing the absence of selfhood as much as transcending what were formerly assumed limitations. The maturation of self in parallel, perhaps, with McKenna's concept of 'Human Adulthood.' (Though I can only imagine the lockdown drawnout bloody cagematch between JM and Tzu.) This would be consistent with the more psychological apex of self-actualization (see Maslow). In either scenario the condition of Premature Immaculation seems to be very probable. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 11:54:10 GMT -5
Many people have the idea that self-realization solves all problems and leads to a peaceful unhurried life. Although this may happen, it also may not. The only thing that definitely changes with self-realization is that seeking comes to an end (because the imaginary seeker vanishes and only isness remains). What does this mean from the perspective of everyday life? It means that life unfolds however it unfolds, and thoughts are seen to be thoughts, only (which may or may not correspond to the unfolding). For example, a sage may find herself working around the clock because that is what she has to do. She may think, "If I would exercise an hour each day and meditate an hour each day, I would probably enjoy greater health and greater mental spaciousness." Nevertheless, that isn't what happens. She continues working long hours, seven days per week, and realizes that her thoughts about exercise, meditation, health, and greater mental spaciousness are just thoughts. She accepts the fact that she must work long hours because that is how life is unfolding at the moment, and her thoughts are not corresponding with what is happening. In the future she may exercise and meditate, but at the moment it is clear that life has a different agenda. An acquaintance and her husband decided to retire and spend a year traveling around the world--a lifelong dream. Two weeks after retiring, her husband developed a bad headache, went to a doctor, got x-rayed, learned that he had an inoperable brain cancer, and was told that he would be lucky to live two weeks. He died about two weeks later. The couple had planned to travel the world together, but life had a different agenda. A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home. Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. I was thinking about your post here, ZD, and St. Vincent, Bill Murray's most recent film. BM embodied a character rife with sins, but a child points out his saintliness. With Razor's Edge, Groundhog Day and St. Vincent, one could probably write a nice little thesis on mountain-no mountain-mountain. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Nov 10, 2014 16:04:13 GMT -5
Many people have the idea that self-realization solves all problems and leads to a peaceful unhurried life. Although this may happen, it also may not. The only thing that definitely changes with self-realization is that seeking comes to an end (because the imaginary seeker vanishes and only isness remains). What does this mean from the perspective of everyday life? It means that life unfolds however it unfolds, and thoughts are seen to be thoughts, only (which may or may not correspond to the unfolding). For example, a sage may find herself working around the clock because that is what she has to do. She may think, "If I would exercise an hour each day and meditate an hour each day, I would probably enjoy greater health and greater mental spaciousness." Nevertheless, that isn't what happens. She continues working long hours, seven days per week, and realizes that her thoughts about exercise, meditation, health, and greater mental spaciousness are just thoughts. She accepts the fact that she must work long hours because that is how life is unfolding at the moment, and her thoughts are not corresponding with what is happening. In the future she may exercise and meditate, but at the moment it is clear that life has a different agenda. An acquaintance and her husband decided to retire and spend a year traveling around the world--a lifelong dream. Two weeks after retiring, her husband developed a bad headache, went to a doctor, got x-rayed, learned that he had an inoperable brain cancer, and was told that he would be lucky to live two weeks. He died about two weeks later. The couple had planned to travel the world together, but life had a different agenda. A few days ago I left a cellphone charger in a hotel room while on a trip to attend an out-of-state funeral. This afternoon I was driving across town on my way to a cellphone company to get a replacement charger. My cellphone battery was almost out of juice, but as I drove through heavy traffic after a tiring day of work, it suddenly became clear that I was not going to get a replacement charger. I was going to go home. The cellphone charger would have to wait. All of the ideas about getting a replacement charger today turned out to be ideas, only. I could only smile as the body/mind turned the car in the direction of home. Thoughts often fail to predict what will happen next which is a good reason not to get overly attached to them. I was thinking about your post here, ZD, and St. Vincent, Bill Murray's most recent film. BM embodied a character rife with sins, but a child points out his saintliness. With Razor's Edge, Groundhog Day and St. Vincent, one could probably write a nice little thesis on mountain-no mountain-mountain. I've seen both versions of The Razor's Edge, like both pretty equally. I'm not sure it's well known that Larry Darrell's Guru was based on Ramana Maharshi. M Somerset Maugham met RM in 1938. (Source Wikipedia, The Razor's Edge, which checked my memory). The idea for Groundhog Day came from the novel by PD Ouspensky, Strange Life of Ivan Osokin. Ouspsensky's pet theory was eternal recurrence. At the beginning of the book, Osokin is lamenting his life, if only I could go back and live it over I would do things differently..... Unlike the BM character in Groundhog, Osokin, who indeed gets a do-over, soon forgets it is a do-over and exactly repeats his life, even up to the point, if only I could go back and live my life over again...... Murray is quite the spiritual seeker, has been for many years. I happened to catch him on Charlie Rose about two months ago. Here and there in the interview, and especially at the end, he peppered in references to the search. They pretty-much went right over Charlie's head. The last reference was about trying in life to be more present (edit, I listened to it again, BM doesn't actually use the word present, just, here, and his first not-obvious reference to the impact of his search in about minute 10). The interview would be on Charlie Rose's website. I was going to pass on St. Vincent.....maybe not now....thanks. sdp |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2014 16:32:30 GMT -5
I was thinking about your post here, ZD, and St. Vincent, Bill Murray's most recent film. BM embodied a character rife with sins, but a child points out his saintliness. With Razor's Edge, Groundhog Day and St. Vincent, one could probably write a nice little thesis on mountain-no mountain-mountain. I've seen both versions of The Razor's Edge, like both pretty equally. I'm not sure it's well known that Larry Darrell's Guru was based on Ramana Maharshi. M Somerset Maugham met RM in 1938. (Source Wikipedia, The Razor's Edge, which checked my memory). The idea for Groundhog Day came from the novel by PD Ouspensky, Strange Life of Ivan Osokin. Ouspsensky's pet theory was eternal recurrence. At the beginning of the book, Osokin is lamenting his life, if only I could go back and live it over I would do things differently..... Unlike the BM character in Groundhog, Osokin, who indeed gets a do-over, soon forgets it is a do-over and exactly repeats his life, even up to the point, if only I could go back and live my life over again...... Murray is quite the spiritual seeker, has been for many years. I happened to catch him on Charlie Rose about two months ago. Here and there in the interview, and especially at the end, he peppered in references to the search. They pretty-much went right over Charlie's head. The last reference was about trying in life to be more present. The interview would be on Charlie Rose's website. I was going to pass on St. Vincent.....maybe not now....thanks. sdp SV was entertaining but I wouldn't put it in the same class as GD and RE, which were much more thought provoking. SV though is timely wrt ZD's post. Tune into the last 6 minutes for SDP's reference: Bill Murray and Charlie Rose |
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Post by zendancer on Nov 10, 2014 21:07:42 GMT -5
In your interpretation of the experience, the imaginary seeker vanishes..
In my interpretation of the experience, the real seeker's intentions lead to greater clarity about her relationship with isness.. and, clarity is liberating, so that might cause someone to imagine they have vanished.. I think this is an excellent challenge to the no-selfies out there. It's not about realizing the absence of selfhood as much as transcending what were formerly assumed limitations. The maturation of self in parallel, perhaps, with McKenna's concept of 'Human Adulthood.' (Though I can only imagine the lockdown drawnout bloody cagematch between JM and Tzu.) This would be consistent with the more psychological apex of self-actualization (see Maslow). In either scenario the condition of Premature Immaculation seems to be very probable. Ha ha. Max, you definitely brought a smile to my face with this one. It isn't that the imaginary seeker vanishes as much as it is realized that one's personal identity was always imaginary and never existed in the first place. For people with a "hard" sense of selfhood, there is a sense of a "me in here" looking at a world "out there." With realization one looks and sees that the "me in here" was a complete fiction from the get go. One looks, and there simply isn't anyone who is "inside" looking "out" because there is no inside or outside. So, there is a realization of the absence of selfhood as well as the transcension of all the formerly-felt limitations associated with the prior sense of separateness. All that remains is the physical world and awareness, but there is no separate person at the center of awareness. All that one can say is, "In the past I thought I was John Doe, but now I realize that there is only the cosmos, which is a unified whole. No John Doe ever existed; he was just a pipedream." FWIW, the real seeker has no relationship with isness that needs greater clarification because the real seeker IS isness. There are not two here, and that fact becomes blatantly obvious in a direct and deeply visceral way. I am "what is;" you are "what is," and everyone else is "what is. "What is" is all there is, and the same "what is" is looking out of every set of eyes. Can a sense of separateness reappear after realization? Sure, but it is never believed to be true in the same way as before. It's more like having a provisional identity for utilititarian purposes. The opening line of Moby Dick is, "You may call me Ishmael." In the same way, you may call me "Bob," or Zendancer," or "stupid idiot," but that is NOT who I AM. Who I AM is beyond imagination or any labels. |
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Never knew that the "best laid plans of mice and men" was from a 
