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Post by laughter on Nov 3, 2014 12:13:33 GMT -5
I want to see how my life is being clouded by attachments to ideas and I want to be free of that. This freedom is something that you want for yourself? Isn't the idea of being free of attachments, an idea?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 12:16:30 GMT -5
It's curious when someone retells an interesting and colorful story about dropping or letting go but then continues to use dramatic wordplay like conjuring and spinning illusions. The teacher in your story just gave the very simple instructions and left. Being tired of attaching to ideas and beliefs may lead to temporary relief like sleep or just a pause but it only lasts until one is not tired again. Picking up happens again.You are allowing your own 'picking up, again', why not just pay attention and see what will happen rather than set boundaries and expectations ahead of the happening?.. The teacher in my account didn't have people wanting the lesson to be different from what it was, they weren't experiencing what was happening and trying to make it appear different from the actual happening.. How do you know the people in your account didn't want the lesson to be different from what it was? Did you do a survey? How would you possibly know that "they weren't experiencing what was happening and trying to make it appear different from the actual happening?" Did you make it up?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 12:19:19 GMT -5
I want to see how my life is being clouded by attachments to ideas and I want to be free of that. This freedom is something that you want for yourself? Isn't the idea of being free of attachments, an idea? Yes it is a big ol fat idea. Oh shall I say 'sturdy'? Part of the imagining is that ideas will still happen but they will just waft by untouched.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 12:25:11 GMT -5
The 'just drop it' teaching makes about as much sense as 'just say no' (to sex and drugs). If it works for you then it works -- but within a peculiar context of conditioning. The trick is a context where attachments yada yada are dropped. Just cutting to the chase -- drop it or stop clenching it or walk off the battlefield -- are like the lazy teacher's guide to enlightening others. It's like Bad Teacher 3, where the math teacher gives the answer to the long division problem right at the beginning.
The point at this forum, for me, is to clarify the context -- make it conscious, describe the ripening so that the dang apple falls already. Winter's coming soon!
edit: bring on the acausal monster hoards
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Post by laughter on Nov 3, 2014 12:54:57 GMT -5
This freedom is something that you want for yourself? Isn't the idea of being free of attachments, an idea? Yes it is a big ol fat idea. Oh shall I say 'sturdy'? Part of the imagining is that ideas will still happen but they will just waft by untouched. How can you ever become this free maxy not attached to ideas that just sail on by, if you're attached to the idea of free maxy?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 14:27:48 GMT -5
Yes it is a big ol fat idea. Oh shall I say 'sturdy'? Part of the imagining is that ideas will still happen but they will just waft by untouched. How can you ever become this free maxy not attached to ideas that just sail on by, if you're attached to the idea of free maxy? I agree, Free Maxy is just another idea that will waft by. edit: C'mon I was bracing myself for challenging and unflattering. Am I missing something?
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Post by andrew on Nov 3, 2014 14:34:56 GMT -5
The 'just drop it' teaching makes about as much sense as 'just say no' (to sex and drugs). If it works for you then it works -- but within a peculiar context of conditioning. The trick is a context where attachments yada yada are dropped. Just cutting to the chase -- drop it or stop clenching it or walk off the battlefield -- are like the lazy teacher's guide to enlightening others. It's like Bad Teacher 3, where the math teacher gives the answer to the long division problem right at the beginning. The point at this forum, for me, is to clarify the context -- make it conscious, describe the ripening so that the dang apple falls already. Winter's coming soon! edit: bring on the acausal monster hoards LOL The problem is that you just haven't realized that realization is acausal. If you realize that realization is acausal then that will cause realization hehe
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 14:42:13 GMT -5
The 'just drop it' teaching makes about as much sense as 'just say no' (to sex and drugs). If it works for you then it works -- but within a peculiar context of conditioning. The trick is a context where attachments yada yada are dropped. Just cutting to the chase -- drop it or stop clenching it or walk off the battlefield -- are like the lazy teacher's guide to enlightening others. It's like Bad Teacher 3, where the math teacher gives the answer to the long division problem right at the beginning. The point at this forum, for me, is to clarify the context -- make it conscious, describe the ripening so that the dang apple falls already. Winter's coming soon! edit: bring on the acausal monster hoards LOL The problem is that you just haven't realized that realization is acausal. If you realize that realization is acausal then that will cause realization hehe Just do this for the acausal realization of acausal realization: Step 1: read this post. Step 2: whatever you do, do not read this post. When realized, let us know. Otherwise feck off!
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Post by andrew on Nov 3, 2014 14:46:24 GMT -5
LOL The problem is that you just haven't realized that realization is acausal. If you realize that realization is acausal then that will cause realization hehe Just do this for the acausal realization of acausal realization: Step 1: read this post. Step 2: whatever you do, do not read this post. When realized, let us know. Otherwise feck off! bahahahahahaha You should write a book on that, I'm not even joking.
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Post by laughter on Nov 3, 2014 16:40:31 GMT -5
How can you ever become this free maxy not attached to ideas that just sail on by, if you're attached to the idea of free maxy? I agree, Free Maxy is just another idea that will waft by. edit: C'mon I was bracing myself for challenging and unflattering. Am I missing something? Yeah -- the idea of a free maxy will never waft on by to a free maxy. You're grasping at this idea of gaining freedom for yourself. It's definitely all ruthlessly truthy and all, but the fact is that this idea of freedom is a carrot, that you're never not free, and it's only this you that wants to be free that obscures the non-carrot freedom. Look at how it was phrased: I want to see how my life is being clouded by attachments to ideas and I want to be free of that. Kinda' prounony, don't ya' think?? ... hey! I did preface that this wasn't something new to ya'. Serious serious though, witnessing involves the witness and what is witnessed. Doesn't it make sense that this can result in some major benefits to the person doing the witnessing that they wouldn't want to let go of? It strikes me from our correspondence over time that you've gained some benefits in the past from detaching from lifes drama's ... do I have that right? If I do, then I'd suggest something based on this desire for freedom that you've stated.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 16:49:35 GMT -5
This is just more bullying charge isn't it? No, it's not more bullying charge.. and, it's not an attempt to influence the seeker, it's an appeal to those that insist their's is the only truth, to allow the experiencer the opportunity to experience without their insistence that it is only valid if the experiencer agrees with them.. Okay lets call it an 'appeal.' You feel that on this forum there are some -- lets call them soothsayers -- who insist that their's is the only truth, the only valid truth. You feel that there are readers of the forum that may be influenced by the soothsayers' insistence that their's is the only truth in such a way that it will inhibit the reader's opportunity to experience without that insistence. And you think the reader's experience will be clouded in some way by this influence. That the reader, without such exposure to the soothsayer's, will perhaps formulate their own understanding, their own explanation for what they experience. This would be an equally valid 'truth,' one that might not agree with the soothsayer's view. So that reader's view may not have been born if it weren't for tamping down the soothsayer's insistence. Is that what you are saying? Read more: spiritualteachers.proboards.com/thread/3836/parts?page=2&scrollTo=219212#ixzz3I2oaQpkhAgain, is this not what you are saying? I'm trying to understand you. [ ] Yes [ ] No [ ] I don't want to answer because I think you are tricking me, spinning illusions and conjuring drama. [ ] None of the above, I meant this:________________________[fill in the blank]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 17:01:05 GMT -5
I agree, Free Maxy is just another idea that will waft by. edit: C'mon I was bracing myself for challenging and unflattering. Am I missing something? Yeah -- the idea of a free maxy will never waft on by to a free maxy. You're grasping at this idea of gaining freedom for yourself. It's definitely all ruthlessly truthy and all, but the fact is that this idea of freedom is a carrot, that you're never not free, and it's only this you that wants to be free that obscures the non-carrot freedom. Look at how it was phrased: I want to see how my life is being clouded by attachments to ideas and I want to be free of that. Kinda' prounony, don't ya' think?? ... hey! I did preface that this wasn't something new to ya'. Serious serious though, witnessing involves the witness and what is witnessed. Doesn't it make sense that this can result in some major benefits to the person doing the witnessing that they wouldn't want to let go of? It strikes me from our correspondence over time that you've gained some benefits in the past from detaching from lifes drama's ... do I have that right? If I do, then I'd suggest something based on this desire for freedom that you've stated. Interesting idea ... maybe I've had some benefit from inquiry that I'm now blowing up into a permanent state or to be gained with some monumental realization or something. Okay I'll let that waft by too. The pronoun sentence was immediately regretted by the way. Ipad on the run with kids breathing down my neck. Just wanted to up the anti in an honest way for mr. Tzu. Just made him go all teacher on me, doing the bearded thing with stories of his Master. Soon he'll be calling me grasshopper. But it is honest. I don't pretend to have any fancy realizations or awakening. I don't pretend to know what dropping means in this context. I do get lost in thought. I feel like a normal person that way. But as Q hypothesized, I've been infected as if with a virus, with the mind-worm that perhaps there is a better way to be. That sentence was an expression of that mind-worm.
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Post by quinn on Nov 3, 2014 17:08:24 GMT -5
I just wanted to read this again.
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Post by laughter on Nov 3, 2014 19:41:41 GMT -5
Yeah -- the idea of a free maxy will never waft on by to a free maxy. You're grasping at this idea of gaining freedom for yourself. It's definitely all ruthlessly truthy and all, but the fact is that this idea of freedom is a carrot, that you're never not free, and it's only this you that wants to be free that obscures the non-carrot freedom. Look at how it was phrased: Kinda' prounony, don't ya' think?? ... hey! I did preface that this wasn't something new to ya'. Serious serious though, witnessing involves the witness and what is witnessed. Doesn't it make sense that this can result in some major benefits to the person doing the witnessing that they wouldn't want to let go of? It strikes me from our correspondence over time that you've gained some benefits in the past from detaching from lifes drama's ... do I have that right? If I do, then I'd suggest something based on this desire for freedom that you've stated. Interesting idea ... maybe I've had some benefit from inquiry that I'm now blowing up into a permanent state or to be gained with some monumental realization or something. Okay I'll let that waft by too. All kidding aside, that, would be a trap. One you can see writ large in the MT's. .. the ideas to let go of are the permanent state or the future woo-woo. Don't let the point that this desire is present waft by. Don't ignore that. The pronoun sentence was immediately regretted by the way. Ipad on the run with kids breathing down my neck. Just wanted to up the anti in an honest way for mr. Tzu. Just made him go all teacher on me, doing the bearded thing with stories of his Master. Soon he'll be calling me grasshopper. But it is honest. I don't pretend to have any fancy realizations or awakening. I don't pretend to know what dropping means in this context. I do get lost in thought. I feel like a normal person that way. But as Q hypothesized, I've been infected as if with a virus, with the mind-worm that perhaps there is a better way to be. That sentence was an expression of that mind-worm. The stated desire isn't something that you can have. Surprisingly enough, in terms of the dialog on the forum, this is a point of controversy. If you pay close attention to the MT's, what you'll find is that whenever this proposition is disagreed with, it's not done directly, or if it is done directly the disagreement is sometimes quite quickly, but eventually always, equivocated and redirected by morphing the point under discussion or resorting to a construct similar to the positionless position. That resistance is very telling. Practices, study, contemplation of interesting ideas ... all these lead to a different experience and that's fine. But dude, really ... "If you direct yourself toward it, you go away from it". It's trite. It's cliche. It's ... what is happening.
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Post by tzujanli on Nov 3, 2014 19:46:35 GMT -5
You are allowing your own 'picking up, again', why not just pay attention and see what will happen rather than set boundaries and expectations ahead of the happening?.. The teacher in my account didn't have people wanting the lesson to be different from what it was, they weren't experiencing what was happening and trying to make it appear different from the actual happening.. How do you know the people in your account didn't want the lesson to be different from what it was? Did you do a survey? How would you possibly know that "they weren't experiencing what was happening and trying to make it appear different from the actual happening?" Did you make it up? I was present.. we, the students, talked among ourselves.. and, no..
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