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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 19, 2014 21:58:02 GMT -5
Yes, that is why the teaching is about waking up from the unconscious state. Put aside all your worries and drama about this and that; a few of them might still be there when you look back around anyway! Find Truth. Destroy untruth. Be Truth. Hold your headless shoulders up high! As much as I now see that there's plenty of good and reasonable stuff about all this non-dual, Buddhist type stuff, there are things that either haven't clicked or never will, because - perchance - there's something a tad off about it. Why not go the whole 9 yards and stay in la la land, or admit that there are imperfections...I mean, if YOU had to personally live in one of the roughest spots, I do believe you'd change your tune. I already believe some of this stuff makes 'perfect' sense, but perfect does not. *shrug* Don't be so sure I haven't lived and been in a few of the roughest spots. For example, I had a gun to my eyes in the back of a taxi cab in Ecuador in the not too distant past. Was it a rush and did I almost sh!t meself, after having initally tried to bash my way out of the situation? Fook yeah. I quick punch in the face and a realization that the taxi driver was in on it helped to understand, there was just THIS. After the initial rush and jockeying for position, and with a gun in my face, I can also say I pulled it together, KNOWING consciously, that it is ALL Perfectly so. I became acutely aware of what all was going on, taking note of details, planning what ifs as I spoke in my best Spanish (i.e., not great), calming my captors, expressing my earnestness, clarifying I was cool with the sitch. They were planning to take me down an alley and into their friends house for the rest of the take. I knew that one way or another that wasn't going to happen. Long story short, I jacked the guy in the back seat up as I got out of the car and slammed the door into the guy (with the gun) and just started running down the street, ready to tuck-n-roll with the first shot I heard. I know, I know, sounds all 007-like, but that be the story. Craziness. It was likely not what would have happened had realization taken place at some point in my life, and stabilized to some degree. But then again, whadoiknow? I have a few other stories from the edge and travels, but I don't want to take the focus away from what you're saying to yourself, and on a "me". Such stories are this worldly, and people like to attach to them, not trying to SEE what is pointed at. You have fallen into the mind, and are listening to it. It's telling you what isn't true, and you're believing it. Will shait happen. Yes. Will it cause emotional reactions and such? Probably. Does it pass? Of course, always. Is it Perfect? Absolutely.
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Post by silver on Sept 19, 2014 22:06:27 GMT -5
As much as I now see that there's plenty of good and reasonable stuff about all this non-dual, Buddhist type stuff, there are things that either haven't clicked or never will, because - perchance - there's something a tad off about it. Why not go the whole 9 yards and stay in la la land, or admit that there are imperfections...I mean, if YOU had to personally live in one of the roughest spots, I do believe you'd change your tune. I already believe some of this stuff makes 'perfect' sense, but perfect does not. *shrug* Don't be so sure I haven't lived and been in a few of the roughest spots. For example, I had a gun to my eyes in the back of a taxi cab in Ecuador in the not too distant past. Was it a rush and did I almost sh!t meself, after having initally tried to bash my way out of the situation? Fook yeah. I quick punch in the face and a realization that the taxi driver was in on it helped to understand, there was just THIS. After the initial rush and jockeying for position, and with a gun in my face, I can also say I pulled it together, KNOWING consciously, that it is ALL Perfectly so. I became acutely aware of what all was going on, taking note of details, planning what ifs as I spoke in my best Spanish (i.e., not great), calming my captors, expressing my earnestness, clarifying I was cool with the sitch. They were planning to take me down an alley and into their friends house for the rest of the take. I knew that one way or another that wasn't going to happen. Long story short, I jacked the guy in the back seat up as I got out of the car and slammed the door into the guy (with the gun) and just started running down the street, ready to tuck-n-roll with the first shot I heard. I know, I know, sounds all 007-like, but that be the story. Craziness. It was likely not what would have happened had realization taken place at some point in my life, and stabilized to some degree. But then again, whadoiknow? I have a few other stories from the edge and travels, but I don't want to take the focus away from what you're saying to yourself, and on a "me". Such stories are this worldly, and people like to attach to them, not trying to SEE what is pointed at. You have fallen into the mind, and are listening to it. It's telling you what isn't true, and you're believing it. Will shait happen. Yes. Will it cause emotional reactions and such? Probably. Does it pass? Of course, always. Is it Perfect? Absolutely. That is a great story and I do appreciate the telling of it, SN. In spite of the fact that these kind of things often feel like they're happening in slo-mo, and some how or other, it too feels like we're just barely bumbling by, to get through it in one piece. It's still something that did happen to you, or you wouldn't be able to recall it from memory to share here with us all. And yet...I DO get what you're saying about attaching to different stories. Such events are entertaining to tell about, to each and every one of us. But why o why do we have to go so far as to say the world or life or whatev is 'perfect'? Why not just focus on the fact that some of us get hung up on our stories, for one reason or another -- you could get attached to this story because you came off and came out of the situation as clever for doing so, and the exhilaration brought on by the adrenalin, and so on. I am plenty aware of my own stories that I've become attached to and am aware of the fact that I have the ability to nip that in the bud.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Sept 19, 2014 22:44:47 GMT -5
Don't be so sure I haven't lived and been in a few of the roughest spots. For example, I had a gun to my eyes in the back of a taxi cab in Ecuador in the not too distant past. Was it a rush and did I almost sh!t meself, after having initally tried to bash my way out of the situation? Fook yeah. I quick punch in the face and a realization that the taxi driver was in on it helped to understand, there was just THIS. After the initial rush and jockeying for position, and with a gun in my face, I can also say I pulled it together, KNOWING consciously, that it is ALL Perfectly so. I became acutely aware of what all was going on, taking note of details, planning what ifs as I spoke in my best Spanish (i.e., not great), calming my captors, expressing my earnestness, clarifying I was cool with the sitch. They were planning to take me down an alley and into their friends house for the rest of the take. I knew that one way or another that wasn't going to happen. Long story short, I jacked the guy in the back seat up as I got out of the car and slammed the door into the guy (with the gun) and just started running down the street, ready to tuck-n-roll with the first shot I heard. I know, I know, sounds all 007-like, but that be the story. Craziness. It was likely not what would have happened had realization taken place at some point in my life, and stabilized to some degree. But then again, whadoiknow? I have a few other stories from the edge and travels, but I don't want to take the focus away from what you're saying to yourself, and on a "me". Such stories are this worldly, and people like to attach to them, not trying to SEE what is pointed at. You have fallen into the mind, and are listening to it. It's telling you what isn't true, and you're believing it. Will shait happen. Yes. Will it cause emotional reactions and such? Probably. Does it pass? Of course, always. Is it Perfect? Absolutely. That is a great story and I do appreciate the telling of it, SN. In spite of the fact that these kind of things often feel like they're happening in slo-mo, and some how or other, it too feels like we're just barely bumbling by, to get through it in one piece. It's still something that did happen to you, or you wouldn't be able to recall it from memory to share here with us all. And yet...I DO get what you're saying about attaching to different stories. Such events are entertaining to tell about, to each and every one of us. But why o why do we have to go so far as to say the world or life or whatev is 'perfect'? Why not just focus on the fact that some of us get hung up on our stories, for one reason or another -- you could get attached to this story because you came off and came out of the situation as clever for doing so, and the exhilaration brought on by the adrenalin, and so on. I am plenty aware of my own stories that I've become attached to and am aware of the fact that I have the ability to nip that in the bud. Nothing has to be done. The perfection being pointed at here is not fathomable to the thinking process with which you are trying to understand it. As an idea, it rubs up against the idea that you believe your self to be in a way that you find yourself in opposition to it. You see the things you care for or the values you uphold deeply questioned. What if everything I thought and deeply felt to be true, simply weren't? As a realization of the way things are, alignment and clarity naturally arise. Again, "bad" things still happen, but they're seen from a broader, more honest context, without all the attachments focusing the attention. As far as telling the story all hopped up on adrenaline, I think I did do that here on the forum the night of the attack. The betterest realization of that event actually arose when the mind/body was experiencing and working through the post-trauma. It was like wearing the universe. Again, it's just a story,,,,not in the here and now. Mind stuff. Are you aware that the mind is trying to make a story about "me" now, and for the "reason" you're having this discussion?
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Post by silver on Sept 19, 2014 22:55:29 GMT -5
That is a great story and I do appreciate the telling of it, SN. In spite of the fact that these kind of things often feel like they're happening in slo-mo, and some how or other, it too feels like we're just barely bumbling by, to get through it in one piece. It's still something that did happen to you, or you wouldn't be able to recall it from memory to share here with us all. And yet...I DO get what you're saying about attaching to different stories. Such events are entertaining to tell about, to each and every one of us. But why o why do we have to go so far as to say the world or life or whatev is 'perfect'? Why not just focus on the fact that some of us get hung up on our stories, for one reason or another -- you could get attached to this story because you came off and came out of the situation as clever for doing so, and the exhilaration brought on by the adrenalin, and so on. I am plenty aware of my own stories that I've become attached to and am aware of the fact that I have the ability to nip that in the bud. Nothing has to be done. The perfection being pointed at here is not fathomable to the thinking process with which you are trying to understand it. As an idea, it rubs up against the idea that you believe your self to be in a way that you find yourself in opposition to it. You see the things you care for or the values you uphold deeply questioned. What if everything I thought and deeply felt to be true, simply weren't? As a realization of the way things are, alignment and clarity naturally arise. Again, "bad" things still happen, but they're seen from a broader, more honest context, without all the attachments focusing the attention.As far as telling the story all hopped up on adrenaline, I think I did do that here on the forum the night of the attack. The betterest realization of that event actually arose when the mind/body was experiencing and working through the post-trauma. It was like wearing the universe. Again, it's just a story,,,,not in the here and now. Mind stuff. Are you aware that the mind is trying to make a story about "me" now, and for the "reason" you're having this discussion? Not sure what the 'nothing has to be done' is in response to. I can imagine what it would be like to see that this one world...this one ball o' being isn't something we can commandeer but I can't help but believe that the smallest part can have an effect - perhaps this is what is meant by the butterfly effect? Does that play into your vision / view of 'it all', SN? I agree totally with the underlined, italicized sentence, and I even get what you mean about 'mind stuff', but for me, there's a line to be carefully drawn in this neck of the woods.
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Post by enigma on Sept 19, 2014 23:08:26 GMT -5
Because the universe is manifesting right now via some online bloke named maxdprophet to interject rudely in a convo not having to do with him.... It seems like you, SDP, and Tzu, aren't really getting what ZD is saying here. "Let's go have a beer" may happen, who knows? Perhaps that would make sense given the situation. My guess is that ZD would go all ATA on his a55, Tzu would go all let-go-still-mind, and you would advise some combo of therapy and hardcore training (but really I have no clue). Stop killing peeps would probably be the first thing y'all would say to him. Who knows? The story of Milarepa primarily functions to aid people in buckling down, applying themselves, upping the earnestness and sincerity. It aids in reinforcing a culture of focus on the actual, on still mind, on ______. To say it is all 'perfectly so' does not mean someone doesn't say STOP!!! given a situation where a berobed spiritual dude is about to cut off the head of a journalist. STOP!! is exactly part of the 'perfectly so.' Get it? I understand what ZD is saying, but for me there is a movement to the perfectly so. I guess ZD is saying that since all this is perfectly so, it can't be more perfectly so (or less). But I still ask what the purpose of all this is, even though ZD is saying there isn't a purpose, other than just being perfectly so. Up to a point, I take it as theory that there are different orders of reality, an unseen world behind the visible universe. This world probably doesn't seem too bad, until nasty sh!t happens in your tiny sphere, happens every hour to somebody. So in this present sphere, everything is perfectly so, can't be other than it is, everything happens in the only way it can happen. So I agree with E and ZD, as far as this visible world is. So there is no point to what you think I might advise, some combo of therapy and hardcore training, which I have never suggested. We can't do anything in the sphere of thoughts, emotions or physical actions. But I disagree with E and ZD that nothing can be done. I say one can choose where to place one's attention and/or awareness. This obvious sphere of our universe, the reality of the five senses, things happen in a certain manner, maybe even perfectly so, but theoretically, there is a higher order of reality which we may be able to participate in and live under its influence. The way to some day be able to participate in this (theoretical) higher order of reality, is to learn to live through one's attention and one's awareness, voluntarily. So that's where I part with E and ZD. They say nobody can do anything, and any doing doesn't matter anyway (well....to be fair ZD is on the fence concerning the value of practices). That's OK with me, that's them. I have posted numerous times that one's attention and awareness exist apart from thoughts, feelings and actions (which ego consists of). So the way out of this visible sphere of influence, awareness, is already out, actually comes from this higher order of reality. I have numerous times referred to the use of attention and awareness as interior spiritual practice. And eventually, months, not years or not not ever, you can get a taste of a different order of reality. And then when you live under higher influences, maybe life happens differently in this world. So, here we are............. sdp I have to protest that characterization as I'm not a big fan of 'nothing can be done', and I don't think I've ever used that phrase. It's tricky to talk about because the search is undertaken on false pretenses using a false identity, so all the volition in the world is unlikely to lead to freedom under those circumstances. An imagined individual is seeking freedom from that imagined story, so which direction is the correct one for the seeker to take? Obviously, any movement at all is the wrong move and at best will culminate in a dead end. I wonder how many seekers are familiar with the dead end. I wouldn't say nothing can be done, I would say nothing needs to be done. If the seeker hears that and concludes that he should go about his biznis and forget the whole thing, that's not what's being said. What's being said is that nothing needs to be done in order to be what you are, and this needs to be realized, which is not a doing, but it does involve an undoing. How does one do an undoing? One doesn't, and this is the dilemma. That dilemma is the only problem. There isn't anything hidden from view that needs to be found. I watch as folks look away. Over and over they look away, for countless reasons in countless imaginative ways. The looking away is all that stands in the way of freedom, and yet how does that end? That's the dilemma.
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Post by laughter on Sept 19, 2014 23:49:30 GMT -5
I'm genuinely curious as to why there seems to be such importance assigned to a subjective belief about the meaning of a word?.. 'perfection' is a meaningless concept, where the idea is dependent on the observer's idea of 'perfection'.. if everything is perfect, what's the point of stating it, and to whom if the perfection belief is companion to a belief that there are no 'persons', only oneness.. Perfection has meaning by comparison to imperfection, if there's no imperfection it's like saying 'the fence is a fence'.. there is the new age woo-woo factor, where it's cool to say profound sounding things like, "it's all perfect", or "it's all oneness", or "there is no you".. but, it's part of a self-referential identification with saying the profoundly cool words.. Yes, Tzu, you got everybody. Caught'em red handed, ya did. Everyone was caught up in the act of eating the menu, believing the words to be true. It was mass hysteria, I tell ya. Can' hide it now. What WAS the point?! You're exactly right. I should be ashamed. I mean, in the context of peeps communicating, who actually comes to a message board to write anything about anything? OK, apparently, maybe you either you want everyone to shut up, or you just wanna read drivel, which, I guess, wouldn't surprise me. So, I'll put your words to the test to see what happens! Here it goes. <<waiting...>> <<...>> OK, nice round of silence was not all that bad, but I think I'd rather be outside next time. Next stop, the big feelings of talking crazy shait. Here I go. "Everything is perfect." (and it is BTW) OK, there, I said it. OK, now I'll wait for a few seconds for the feeling of being cool and self-referentially identified, as you talked about. (30 seconds) Nope, still hasn't come. I do notice a little about where one might slip into identity though. When you start thinking the thoughts to be true and such, there's a bit of weight welling up in there. That's about where I usually just flick it off the reality suit before I put it on. Maybe you can share something on what it feels like to believe the thoughts, get full on into character, and go unconscious (you can be honest; we're all friends here). We'll carry on with the drivel part of the experiment now. What is is looking through a mind/body that is sitting here at a table with a computer on it, typing away like an idiot (to quote the ever-so-spiritual genius, Andrew). There's a wall in front of the mind/body with a bunch of pictures painted by another mind/body, affectionately respected and loved as this mind/body's wife. This mind/body really digs her and experiences the wonderful detail, dances of hues, and imagery of light and form found in her paintings and general dance in life. Thoughts bubble up in the mind of said body. "How much longer can this mind/body typing this" keeps popping up. Quickly losing interest. Thought happens, "Oh yeah, that's why it's not usually done." <<End of experiment>> Waiting for a few secs for the effect that I'm not really relying on, expecting, or hoping to be roused up. . .<<Thoughts of the Jeopardy theme pops through the head a few times.>> Nope, not interested. Observations from the experiment: Either you're still carrying around that damm cat by the tail, you just love adding to the drama of this board, and/or you really got the hots for sorting out infinity and remaining personally intact. BTW, no person meant to confuse you with all that talk about perfection. Just consciously talkin' in the dream about what is. Let's go have a beer. But, don't bring that SDP character. It's all talkin' stuff about killing 35 people, and I'm heading to the hills manana. (** side splitting face palm **)
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Post by laughter on Sept 19, 2014 23:51:06 GMT -5
Nooow, where does that little rascal go? (** chews on orange slice **)
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2014 0:00:14 GMT -5
I wouldn't say nothing can be done, I would say nothing needs to be done. A distinction that is as incredibly fine and subtle as it is profound and meaningful.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 20, 2014 5:57:57 GMT -5
If there is no volition, nothing can be done, it simply happens.. changing horses mid-stream has its risks..
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 20, 2014 7:37:17 GMT -5
If there is no volition, nothing can be done, it simply happens.. changing horses mid-stream has its risks.. Bingo.
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 20, 2014 7:51:33 GMT -5
I understand what ZD is saying, but for me there is a movement to the perfectly so. I guess ZD is saying that since all this is perfectly so, it can't be more perfectly so (or less). But I still ask what the purpose of all this is, even though ZD is saying there isn't a purpose, other than just being perfectly so. Up to a point, I take it as theory that there are different orders of reality, an unseen world behind the visible universe. This world probably doesn't seem too bad, until nasty sh!t happens in your tiny sphere, happens every hour to somebody. So in this present sphere, everything is perfectly so, can't be other than it is, everything happens in the only way it can happen. So I agree with E and ZD, as far as this visible world is. So there is no point to what you think I might advise, some combo of therapy and hardcore training, which I have never suggested. We can't do anything in the sphere of thoughts, emotions or physical actions. But I disagree with E and ZD that nothing can be done. I say one can choose where to place one's attention and/or awareness. This obvious sphere of our universe, the reality of the five senses, things happen in a certain manner, maybe even perfectly so, but theoretically, there is a higher order of reality which we may be able to participate in and live under its influence. The way to some day be able to participate in this (theoretical) higher order of reality, is to learn to live through one's attention and one's awareness, voluntarily. So that's where I part with E and ZD. They say nobody can do anything, and any doing doesn't matter anyway (well....to be fair ZD is on the fence concerning the value of practices). That's OK with me, that's them. I have posted numerous times that one's attention and awareness exist apart from thoughts, feelings and actions (which ego consists of). So the way out of this visible sphere of influence, awareness, is already out, actually comes from this higher order of reality. I have numerous times referred to the use of attention and awareness as interior spiritual practice. And eventually, months, not years or not not ever, you can get a taste of a different order of reality. And then when you live under higher influences, maybe life happens differently in this world. So, here we are............. sdp I have to protest that characterization as I'm not a big fan of 'nothing can be done', and I don't think I've ever used that phrase. It's tricky to talk about because the search is undertaken on false pretenses using a false identity, so all the volition in the world is unlikely to lead to freedom under those circumstances. An imagined individual is seeking freedom from that imagined story, so which direction is the correct one for the seeker to take? Obviously, any movement at all is the wrong move and at best will culminate in a dead end. I wonder how many seekers are familiar with the dead end. I wouldn't say nothing can be done, I would say nothing needs to be done. If the seeker hears that and concludes that he should go about his biznis and forget the whole thing, that's not what's being said. What's being said is that nothing needs to be done in order to be what you are, and this needs to be realized, which is not a doing, but it does involve an undoing. How does one do an undoing? One doesn't, and this is the dilemma. That dilemma is the only problem. There isn't anything hidden from view that needs to be found. I watch as folks look away. Over and over they look away, for countless reasons in countless imaginative ways. The looking away is all that stands in the way of freedom, and yet how does that end? That's the dilemma. Then you're going to have to explain non-volition once more to me (as in, how does that not equal nothing can be done?) It seems to me that you continually put yourself in a straightjacket................................ sdp
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 8:08:04 GMT -5
I have to protest that characterization as I'm not a big fan of 'nothing can be done', and I don't think I've ever used that phrase. It's tricky to talk about because the search is undertaken on false pretenses using a false identity, so all the volition in the world is unlikely to lead to freedom under those circumstances. An imagined individual is seeking freedom from that imagined story, so which direction is the correct one for the seeker to take? Obviously, any movement at all is the wrong move and at best will culminate in a dead end. I wonder how many seekers are familiar with the dead end. I wouldn't say nothing can be done, I would say nothing needs to be done. If the seeker hears that and concludes that he should go about his biznis and forget the whole thing, that's not what's being said. What's being said is that nothing needs to be done in order to be what you are, and this needs to be realized, which is not a doing, but it does involve an undoing. How does one do an undoing? One doesn't, and this is the dilemma. That dilemma is the only problem. There isn't anything hidden from view that needs to be found. I watch as folks look away. Over and over they look away, for countless reasons in countless imaginative ways. The looking away is all that stands in the way of freedom, and yet how does that end? That's the dilemma. well said
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Post by zendancer on Sept 20, 2014 8:46:37 GMT -5
Yes, that is why the teaching is about waking up from the unconscious state. Put aside all your worries and drama about this and that; a few of them might still be there when you look back around anyway! Find Truth. Destroy untruth. Be Truth. Hold your headless shoulders up high! As much as I now see that there's plenty of good and reasonable stuff about all this non-dual, Buddhist type stuff, there are things that either haven't clicked or never will, because - perchance - there's something a tad off about it. Why not go the whole 9 yards and stay in la la land, or admit that there are imperfections...I mean, if YOU had to personally live in one of the roughest spots, I do believe you'd change your tune. I already believe some of this stuff makes 'perfect' sense, but perfect does not. *shrug* Silver: As a crude way to get a sense of what is meant by the claim that the universe is perfect just as it is (which doesn't mean that one can't work for peace or try to educate people or, if necessary, kill killers), here's a fun little thought experiment that might give a glimpse of what is being pointed to: For just a moment, put yourself in God's place (SOI if the word "God" is too offensive). Imagine that you had the power to create a universe in which to live, and then imagine that you had to live in that universe for infinity (because you would be every creature that inhabited that universe). What kind of universe would you create? If you consider in depth all of the implications of this creative choice, then this very world (with all of its beauty, horror, love, joy, pain, and pleasure) is the world that I suspect you would voluntarily choose to create. Please don't jump to any immediate conclusions about this idea; just silently contemplate why you might choose to do this. Most people imagine that heaven is a wonderful place where nothing bad ever happens (no suffering, no death, no disease, etc). This idea proves that they lack both imagination as well as insight into the matter. One moment of deep insight would show them that heaven is already present. It's just not the heaven that they usually imagine. If they could get the heaven that they imagine they want, they would soon recognize it as hell. Even 72 virgins or streets paved with gold would soon pale in comparison to THIS. Someone once asked ZMSS if he wanted to go to heaven. He replied, "No. I want to go to hell because that's where all of the interesting people will be." Everyone laughed, but I don't think that he was joking.
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2014 9:40:35 GMT -5
Yes, that is why the teaching is about waking up from the unconscious state. Put aside all your worries and drama about this and that; a few of them might still be there when you look back around anyway! Find Truth. Destroy untruth. Be Truth. Hold your headless shoulders up high! As much as I now see that there's plenty of good and reasonable stuff about all this non-dual, Buddhist type stuff, there are things that either haven't clicked or never will, because - perchance - there's something a tad off about it. Why not go the whole 9 yards and stay in la la land, or admit that there are imperfections...I mean, if YOU had to personally live in one of the roughest spots, I do believe you'd change your tune. I already believe some of this stuff makes 'perfect' sense, but perfect does not. *shrug* Silver, I understand the objections that you and others have raised about “perfectly so”. There’s nothing that I can type here that will bridge the divide completely. If we were in the same room, and the nuances of personal emotional expression were available, I think I’d come closer, but there would still be a gap at the end of our talk. Realization and nonduality don’t make any sense, and not just logically, but even from the perspective of body and mind unified in health and in balance between emotion and rationality. This is because what’s referred to by those ideas is transcendent of our experience, our knowledge and our senses. All that’s left to me in responding to your objections is to write about what perfection does not refer to. The perfection of this moment doesn’t mean that the conditions that I can see and describe in motion around me are accepted as being the way they are, now and forever. Acceptance of the now doesn’t mean acceptance of some imagined future. While a sort of poor shadow of perfection is the commonsense recognition that I can’t change the past, the point that nothing is wrong doesn’t mean that I can’t look back and feel sorrow for the past suffering of others. If nonduality wasn’t ultimately about human suffering there would be no cultural artifacts of it. No Zen, no Advaita and no new-age meditation and yoga folks who look like hippies out there with you in Cali. To see how nonduality and suffering relate, notice that much of what is written here is on the point that spiritual seeking is about finding oneself, about inquiring into the nature of what one is. That self-inquiry is essentially the individual journey to find out what it means to be human. What one finds at the end of the journey is beyond description, and while no one can bring you there, it’s not completely accurate to say that you’re ever really on your own. Because what is found is transcendent of even our ability to express ourselves, we often wind up expressing ourselves in contradiction. The emptiness that Ayda talks about here: In that moment of recognition, you have already begun to move beyond the wall of accumulated knowledge. Then, if you don't redefine this moment or rebox it in some concept, rethinking yourself into existence, your true state of being starts to present itself. What you really are begins to awaken. The true I am is so unbelievably empty. It's so free of everything you thought you were. It has no limitation. It has no definition. Any definition would be a disservice to what you are. All that's left is consciousness, and it's not even that because that's just a word. When you see what you really are, no concepts apply anymore. You are so empty there is just consciousness. There is no inner child, and there is no adult either. None of your identities exist until you think them into existence. Consciousness can look down and see there is a body, but that's not the source of anyone's problem. .. is alive and light and, as he says, in motion, in a dance. One of those contradictions is that the emptiness dancing is actually, in a sense, quite full. The unbelievable beauty of that dance is one that fills us with tears of such profound and powerfully poignant and sorrowful joy that there is an urge to throw our arms around the world, give it a hug, and let it know that, yeah, really, everything’s gonna be ok. This is what perfection refers to. Perfection doesn’t mean inaction. It doesn’t mean that there’s no need for change, as in fact, change is inevitable. Perfection doesn't mean indifference. It doesn’t mean that I’d shake the hand of a genocidal dictator if I met one, but it does mean the recognition that what is judged are his actions, as his humanity is ever and always beyond any possible aspersion. You see, we could say that to be human means to be forgiven, and even though that embodies a misconception, it conveys what is meant by perfectly so quite well.
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Post by laughter on Sept 20, 2014 9:53:06 GMT -5
doing happens.
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