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Post by zendancer on Sept 17, 2014 4:14:42 GMT -5
Do you mean that reading a book - any book - is a time when one is not attending the actual??? This is a very good question. I just went over to the un-moderated section. Steve had started a thread on meditation, I was going to refer to it, it's no longer there, don't know what happened to it. (Edit: It's on this side, not in the un-moderated section, the OP of Do you value meditation?) Anyway, he said meditation isn't a practice, it's a state. I don't wholly agree, it depends upon definitions. Anyway..... it's no longer there so it doesn't matter..........I'd say what Steve calls the state of meditation is akin to what Merrell-Wolff calls Consciousness Without an Object (below). A couple of posts down you recognize that reading is a whole lot of minding. By ATA ZD means ATA-MT, at least that's where it's headed. He later added minus thought to clarify. Anyway, laughter was pointing out that almost by definition, you can't ATA while reading. However, there is a state one can be in where one is not wholly absorbed in the reading while one is reading. But previous to this, it's easier to find this state in ATA-MT, one is not wholly absorbed in what one is attending to. And a further state Franklin Merrell-Wolff described as Consciousness Without an Object. But further, one can be in the state of Consciousness Without an Object, in the presence of objects, IOW, while ATA. sdp The underlying, but usually misunderstood, goal of zazen, tai chi, ATA, ATA-MT, Samadhi, keeping a still mind, and all other meditative practices is to develop enough internal psychological space to discover what's going on and who one IS. It is to become free from existential questions, compulsive self-referentiality, and compulsive thought. It is to live life in a state of full acceptance without reflection, attachment, or any idea about how life "should be." The eventual result of a successful search for truth is leaving self-referential thinking behind and attaining the innocence and ability to once again live life like a small child while retaining full adult intellectual capabilities. It is not special, and it leads to an ordinary life full of ordinary activities during which the mind remains free and substantially non-reflective. If pursued with persistence, it leads to a life of presence and attentiveness rather than a life of reflection about the past or future. The person who comes full circle (from ignorance to understanding) cannot be categorized as any kind of thing because s/he is a manifestation of a unified cosmos that is beyond any intellectual compartmentalizationalisam. If it's time to read a book, just read a book. If it's time to go to work, just go to work. Whatever needs doing, just do it. If you like to write poetry, write poetry. If you like to walk in the woods, walk in the woods. When the mind becomes quiescent and uncluttered, life becomes simple and uncomplicated, and what needs to be done in the present moment is obvious. The search for truth is like a disease of the mind, and all practices, questioning, and inquiry, in the most basic sense, are ways to become free from the disease. If we give up judgement, opinions, expectations, and all other ideas, what are we left with? Just this moment and whatever is happening in this moment. What we see is what we get. This is it, and this is what we are--the cosmos unfolding in its empty but spectacular beingness. In the vastness of This there is no better or worse, no higher or lower, and no attainment of anything other than the ability to watch the unfoldment, and accept whatever is happening without expecting anything different. Each human being is unique. Some people and sages are deeply reverential, whereas others are not. Some people and sages are socially engaged, and others are not. Some people and sages are gregarious, and others enjoy being hermits. There simply is no "right way" to be other than what you already are. In the grand scheme of things how anyone's life unfolds is always perfectly so. The average person spends most of his/her time lost in unconscious compulsive self-referential thing-oriented thought. Freedom from such thought is a great blessing.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 17, 2014 5:19:59 GMT -5
This is a very good question. I just went over to the un-moderated section. Steve had started a thread on meditation, I was going to refer to it, it's no longer there, don't know what happened to it. (Edit: It's on this side, not in the un-moderated section, the OP of Do you value meditation?) Anyway, he said meditation isn't a practice, it's a state. I don't wholly agree, it depends upon definitions. Anyway..... it's no longer there so it doesn't matter..........I'd say what Steve calls the state of meditation is akin to what Merrell-Wolff calls Consciousness Without an Object (below). A couple of posts down you recognize that reading is a whole lot of minding. By ATA ZD means ATA-MT, at least that's where it's headed. He later added minus thought to clarify. Anyway, laughter was pointing out that almost by definition, you can't ATA while reading. However, there is a state one can be in where one is not wholly absorbed in the reading while one is reading. But previous to this, it's easier to find this state in ATA-MT, one is not wholly absorbed in what one is attending to. And a further state Franklin Merrell-Wolff described as Consciousness Without an Object. But further, one can be in the state of Consciousness Without an Object, in the presence of objects, IOW, while ATA. sdp The underlying, but usually misunderstood, goal of zazen, tai chi, ATA, ATA-MT, Samadhi, keeping a still mind, and all other meditative practices is to develop enough internal psychological space to discover what's going on and who one IS. It is to become free from existential questions, compulsive self-referentiality, and compulsive thought. It is to live life in a state of full acceptance without reflection, attachment, or any idea about how life "should be." The eventual result of a successful search for truth is leaving self-referential thinking behind and attaining the innocence and ability to once again live life like a small child while retaining full adult intellectual capabilities. It is not special, and it leads to an ordinary life full of ordinary activities during which the mind remains free and substantially non-reflective. If pursued with persistence, it leads to a life of presence and attentiveness rather than a life of reflection about the past or future. The person who comes full circle (from ignorance to understanding) cannot be categorized as any kind of thing because s/he is a manifestation of a unified cosmos that is beyond any intellectual compartmentalizationalisam. If it's time to read a book, just read a book. If it's time to go to work, just go to work. Whatever needs doing, just do it. If you like to write poetry, write poetry. If you like to walk in the woods, walk in the woods. When the mind becomes quiescent and uncluttered, life becomes simple and uncomplicated, and what needs to be done in the present moment is obvious. The search for truth is like a disease of the mind, and all practices, questioning, and inquiry, in the most basic sense, are ways to become free from the disease. If we give up judgement, opinions, expectations, and all other ideas, what are we left with? Just this moment and whatever is happening in this moment. What we see is what we get. This is it, and this is what we are--the cosmos unfolding in its empty but spectacular beingness. In the vastness of This there is no better or worse, no higher or lower, and no attainment of anything other than the ability to watch the unfoldment, and accept whatever is happening without expecting anything different. Each human being is unique. Some people and sages are deeply reverential, whereas others are not. Some people and sages are socially engaged, and others are not. Some people and sages are gregarious, and others enjoy being hermits. There simply is no "right way" to be other than what you already are. In the grand scheme of things how anyone's life unfolds is always perfectly so. The average person spends most of his/her time lost in unconscious compulsive self-referential thing-oriented thought. Freedom from such thought is a great blessing. With the exception of the bolded portion, a really well articulated clarity.. i take exception to the notion that those that would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others and/or the environment are 'perfectly so'.. letting the idealized value of 'perfection' go in favor of the practical awareness of choosing peace and harmony over 'my way or the highway'.. Thanks for a good read to start the day...
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 17, 2014 5:26:56 GMT -5
I want to experience what 'is'.. i can imagine so many fantasy scenarios, chase so many people's imagined scenarios, or.. i can be still and experience what 'is' actually happening.. for all of the talk happening and for all of the philosophies studied, the human experience has, is, and will forever be dependent on the individual's interaction with its interconnected environment, part and whole functioning in unison to translate potential into reality.. sometimes, less IS more.. I personally am not reading it because I think it has answers for me, well, maybe in a more oblique way, but it just sounds interesting. I pretty much have all the 'answers' I think I'm gonna need in this lifetime -- I'm just doing a little re-arranging of sorts, but book-reading I do just for the adventure....like monkey bars and other playground apparatus for the mind - but it also engages the heart and soul. Just outta curiosity, what's the last couple of interesting books you've read? Lin Yutang, 'The Importance of Living' Wolf Lowenthal, 'There Are No Secrets' Thomas Moore, 'Meditations' Gregory Richter, 'The Gate of All Marvelous Things' Timothy Freke, 'Zen Wisdom' Alan Watts....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 8:47:36 GMT -5
without exception...
;-)
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Post by laughter on Sept 17, 2014 9:25:38 GMT -5
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Post by zendancer on Sept 17, 2014 11:15:48 GMT -5
The underlying, but usually misunderstood, goal of zazen, tai chi, ATA, ATA-MT, Samadhi, keeping a still mind, and all other meditative practices is to develop enough internal psychological space to discover what's going on and who one IS. It is to become free from existential questions, compulsive self-referentiality, and compulsive thought. It is to live life in a state of full acceptance without reflection, attachment, or any idea about how life "should be." The eventual result of a successful search for truth is leaving self-referential thinking behind and attaining the innocence and ability to once again live life like a small child while retaining full adult intellectual capabilities. It is not special, and it leads to an ordinary life full of ordinary activities during which the mind remains free and substantially non-reflective. If pursued with persistence, it leads to a life of presence and attentiveness rather than a life of reflection about the past or future. The person who comes full circle (from ignorance to understanding) cannot be categorized as any kind of thing because s/he is a manifestation of a unified cosmos that is beyond any intellectual compartmentalizationalisam. If it's time to read a book, just read a book. If it's time to go to work, just go to work. Whatever needs doing, just do it. If you like to write poetry, write poetry. If you like to walk in the woods, walk in the woods. When the mind becomes quiescent and uncluttered, life becomes simple and uncomplicated, and what needs to be done in the present moment is obvious. The search for truth is like a disease of the mind, and all practices, questioning, and inquiry, in the most basic sense, are ways to become free from the disease. If we give up judgement, opinions, expectations, and all other ideas, what are we left with? Just this moment and whatever is happening in this moment. What we see is what we get. This is it, and this is what we are--the cosmos unfolding in its empty but spectacular beingness. In the vastness of This there is no better or worse, no higher or lower, and no attainment of anything other than the ability to watch the unfoldment, and accept whatever is happening without expecting anything different. Each human being is unique. Some people and sages are deeply reverential, whereas others are not. Some people and sages are socially engaged, and others are not. Some people and sages are gregarious, and others enjoy being hermits. There simply is no "right way" to be other than what you already are. In the grand scheme of things how anyone's life unfolds is always perfectly so. The average person spends most of his/her time lost in unconscious compulsive self-referential thing-oriented thought. Freedom from such thought is a great blessing. With the exception of the bolded portion, a really well articulated clarity.. i take exception to the notion that those that would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others and/or the environment are 'perfectly so'.. letting the idealized value of 'perfection' go in favor of the practical awareness of choosing peace and harmony over 'my way or the highway'.. Thanks for a good read to start the day... Hi Tzu: The term "perfectly so," which is SomeNothing's phrase that I often like to borrow, points to the non-judgmental truth and acceptance that each human being is a unique product of an infinite number of factors, including genetic inheritance, education, conditioning, and so forth. I use that phrase specifically for people on this forum because most people here are seriously interested in truth, freedom, peace of mind, how to escape a self-centered perspective, etc. When I use the term here, I am using it in the same way that Silence used the phrase, "This. Is. It." It points beyond all ideas to what is always indisputable--This, and how This is manifesting in the present moment. On this forum I am also using the phrase to point away from any future imagined state and towards what is already the case. However, the phrase applies equally well to people who would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others. Those kinds of people cannot (at the moment) help being ignorant and hurtful, but they are expressing the cosmos as manifested through them in exactly the same way that the kindest and most spiritual people are expressing the cosmos. There is no intended implication in the phrase other than that of seeing and accepting that this is how the cosmos manifests. It does not mean that hurtful people should be ignored because their manifestation is perfectly so. Far from it, and Krishna's advice to Arjuna concerning the necessity of sometimes having to pick up his sword and kill people points to this associated issue. Today the ISIS followers are perfectly manifesting their understanding of the cosmos and the kinds of ideas that dominate their thinking, and this will almost certainly lead to many thousands, if not millions, of future deaths by violence. This is the way the cosmos manifests. It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is. One thing that all mystics, and all people who have had CC experiences, agree upon is the perfection of the cosmos just as it is, and that includes all the horror as well as all the beauty.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 11:25:14 GMT -5
With the exception of the bolded portion, a really well articulated clarity.. i take exception to the notion that those that would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others and/or the environment are 'perfectly so'.. letting the idealized value of 'perfection' go in favor of the practical awareness of choosing peace and harmony over 'my way or the highway'.. Thanks for a good read to start the day... Hi Tzu: The term "perfectly so," which is SomeNothing's phrase that I often like to borrow, points to the non-judgmental truth and acceptance that each human being is a unique product of an infinite number of factors, including genetic inheritance, education, conditioning, and so forth. I use that phrase specifically for people on this forum because most people here are seriously interested in truth, freedom, peace of mind, how to escape a self-centered perspective, etc. When I use the term here, I am using it in the same way that Silence used the phrase, "This. Is. It." It points beyond all ideas to what is always indisputable--This, and how This is manifesting in the present moment. On this forum I am also using the phrase to point away from any future imagined state and towards what is already the case. However, the phrase applies equally well to people who would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others. Those kinds of people cannot (at the moment) help being ignorant and hurtful, but they are expressing the cosmos as manifested through them in exactly the same way that the kindest and most spiritual people are expressing the cosmos. There is no intended implication in the phrase other than that of seeing and accepting that this is how the cosmos manifests. It does not mean that hurtful people should be ignored because their manifestation is perfectly so. Far from it, and Krishna's advice to Arjuna concerning the necessity of sometimes having to pick up his sword and kill people points to this associated issue. Today the ISIS followers are perfectly manifesting their understanding of the cosmos and the kinds of ideas that dominate their thinking, and this will almost certainly lead to many thousands, if not millions, of future deaths by violence. This is the way the cosmos manifests. It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is. One thing that all mystics, and all people who have had CC experiences, agree upon is the perfection of the cosmos just as it is, and that includes all the horror as well as all the beauty. nice. I've also had a problem with the term in the way Tzu is having now. Using the term forces one to contemplate and differentiate between the meanings inherent in it -- everything is as it is and can not be otherwise vs. very very good (or something like that). The latter is the more common usage and the one Tzu is referring to. The two meanings are conflated until they are not.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 17, 2014 20:36:12 GMT -5
With the exception of the bolded portion, a really well articulated clarity.. i take exception to the notion that those that would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others and/or the environment are 'perfectly so'.. letting the idealized value of 'perfection' go in favor of the practical awareness of choosing peace and harmony over 'my way or the highway'.. Thanks for a good read to start the day... Hi Tzu: The term "perfectly so," which is SomeNothing's phrase that I often like to borrow, points to the non-judgmental truth and acceptance that each human being is a unique product of an infinite number of factors, including genetic inheritance, education, conditioning, and so forth. I use that phrase specifically for people on this forum because most people here are seriously interested in truth, freedom, peace of mind, how to escape a self-centered perspective, etc. When I use the term here, I am using it in the same way that Silence used the phrase, "This. Is. It." It points beyond all ideas to what is always indisputable--This, and how This is manifesting in the present moment. On this forum I am also using the phrase to point away from any future imagined state and towards what is already the case. However, the phrase applies equally well to people who would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others. Those kinds of people cannot (at the moment) help being ignorant and hurtful, but they are expressing the cosmos as manifested through them in exactly the same way that the kindest and most spiritual people are expressing the cosmos. There is no intended implication in the phrase other than that of seeing and accepting that this is how the cosmos manifests. It does not mean that hurtful people should be ignored because their manifestation is perfectly so. Far from it, and Krishna's advice to Arjuna concerning the necessity of sometimes having to pick up his sword and kill people points to this associated issue. Today the ISIS followers are perfectly manifesting their understanding of the cosmos and the kinds of ideas that dominate their thinking, and this will almost certainly lead to many thousands, if not millions, of future deaths by violence. This is the way the cosmos manifests. It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is. One thing that all mystics, and all people who have had CC experiences, agree upon is the perfection of the cosmos just as it is, and that includes all the horror as well as all the beauty. To begin with, your last line is a mix of generalizations, suppositions, and beliefs, based on ideas like 'perfection', and CC experiences, and mystics.. what bad thing happens if people let those ideas go?.. what i mean by that is that people cling to those ideas as if their existence depended on it, as if some 'bad thing' happens if they just let go.. what 'bad thing' happens if the suffering and horror are understood to be undesirable rather than perfect? Letting go of ideas like perfection that can be used to deflect and desensitize an experiencer's awareness of what is happening gets the experiencer out of conceptual mind-play.. if 'everything is perfect' it has no meaning, except to maybe lure more starry-eyed seekers looking for more ideas, or to create the illusion that horror and suffering are acceptable in their 'perfection'.. "It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is"... agreed, and it's not 'perfect', either.. it just 'is'.. kinda like when we say something like, 'The sky is ________'.. we can generally agree that 'the sky is', it's the ideas about the sky that follow the word 'is' that get tangled in mindscapes.. we can generally agree that 'the child is', but the ideas following the word 'is' reveal the experiencer's mindscape, carefully cultivated or allowed grow into its own potential..
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 17, 2014 23:57:13 GMT -5
With the exception of the bolded portion, a really well articulated clarity.. i take exception to the notion that those that would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others and/or the environment are 'perfectly so'.. letting the idealized value of 'perfection' go in favor of the practical awareness of choosing peace and harmony over 'my way or the highway'.. Thanks for a good read to start the day... Hi Tzu: The term "perfectly so," which is SomeNothing's phrase that I often like to borrow, points to the non-judgmental truth and acceptance that each human being is a unique product of an infinite number of factors, including genetic inheritance, education, conditioning, and so forth. I use that phrase specifically for people on this forum because most people here are seriously interested in truth, freedom, peace of mind, how to escape a self-centered perspective, etc. When I use the term here, I am using it in the same way that Silence used the phrase, "This. Is. It." It points beyond all ideas to what is always indisputable--This, and how This is manifesting in the present moment. On this forum I am also using the phrase to point away from any future imagined state and towards what is already the case. However, the phrase applies equally well to people who would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others. Those kinds of people cannot (at the moment) help being ignorant and hurtful, but they are expressing the cosmos as manifested through them in exactly the same way that the kindest and most spiritual people are expressing the cosmos. There is no intended implication in the phrase other than that of seeing and accepting that this is how the cosmos manifests. It does not mean that hurtful people should be ignored because their manifestation is perfectly so. Far from it, and Krishna's advice to Arjuna concerning the necessity of sometimes having to pick up his sword and kill people points to this associated issue. Today the ISIS followers are perfectly manifesting their understanding of the cosmos and the kinds of ideas that dominate their thinking, and this will almost certainly lead to many thousands, if not millions, of future deaths by violence. This is the way the cosmos manifests. It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is.One thing that all mystics, and all people who have had CC experiences, agree upon is the perfection of the cosmos just as it is, and that includes all the horror as well as all the beauty. To say that this is how the cosmos manifests should not be meant to say that it cannot be otherwise, at least for some individuals, or why should it? There is the story of Milarepa. His father died when he was seven and the family was taken over by his uncle. Uncle and wife didn't treat Milarepa and his mother too well and mother persuaded Milarepa to learn the art of black magic and sorcery to punish uncle. Milarepa did so and eventually killed at least 35 people. He later had remorse for his deeds and sought a teacher vowing to become a Buddha in one life. He found his teacher Marpa. For years Marpa made him jump through a lot of hoops, part of it building and tearing down four different buildings. Milarepa after years came to the point of despair left Marpa to find a different teacher and also became suicidal. Eventually Milarepa went back to Marpa, finished the teaching and became a teacher in the lineage, a very great teacher. So, ZD, say Milarepa comes to you, as a disciple, what do you tell him? You're just a cog in the machinery of the cosmos, it's not good or bad that you killed 35 people, it just happened, nothing to worry about, everything is perfectly so. Let's go have a beer.......?...... sdp
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 7:03:27 GMT -5
Hi Tzu: The term "perfectly so," which is SomeNothing's phrase that I often like to borrow, points to the non-judgmental truth and acceptance that each human being is a unique product of an infinite number of factors, including genetic inheritance, education, conditioning, and so forth. I use that phrase specifically for people on this forum because most people here are seriously interested in truth, freedom, peace of mind, how to escape a self-centered perspective, etc. When I use the term here, I am using it in the same way that Silence used the phrase, "This. Is. It." It points beyond all ideas to what is always indisputable--This, and how This is manifesting in the present moment. On this forum I am also using the phrase to point away from any future imagined state and towards what is already the case. However, the phrase applies equally well to people who would intentionally impose suffering and abuse on others. Those kinds of people cannot (at the moment) help being ignorant and hurtful, but they are expressing the cosmos as manifested through them in exactly the same way that the kindest and most spiritual people are expressing the cosmos. There is no intended implication in the phrase other than that of seeing and accepting that this is how the cosmos manifests. It does not mean that hurtful people should be ignored because their manifestation is perfectly so. Far from it, and Krishna's advice to Arjuna concerning the necessity of sometimes having to pick up his sword and kill people points to this associated issue. Today the ISIS followers are perfectly manifesting their understanding of the cosmos and the kinds of ideas that dominate their thinking, and this will almost certainly lead to many thousands, if not millions, of future deaths by violence. This is the way the cosmos manifests. It;'s not good or bad; it's just what is.One thing that all mystics, and all people who have had CC experiences, agree upon is the perfection of the cosmos just as it is, and that includes all the horror as well as all the beauty. To say that this is how the cosmos manifests should not be meant to say that it cannot be otherwise, at least for some individuals, or why should it? There is the story of Milarepa. His father died when he was seven and the family was taken over by his uncle. Uncle and wife didn't treat Milarepa and his mother too well and mother persuaded Milarepa to learn the art of black magic and sorcery to punish uncle. Milarepa did so and eventually killed at least 35 people. He later had remorse for his deeds and sought a teacher vowing to become a Buddha in one life. He found his teacher Marpa. For years Marpa made him jump through a lot of hoops, part of it building and tearing down four different buildings. Milarepa after years came to the point of despair left Marpa to find a different teacher and also became suicidal. Eventually Milarepa went back to Marpa, finished the teaching and became a teacher in the lineage, a very great teacher. So, ZD, say Milarepa comes to you, as a disciple, what do you tell him? You're just a cog in the machinery of the cosmos, it's not good or bad that you killed 35 people, it just happened, nothing to worry about, everything is perfectly so. Let's go have a beer.......?...... sdp Because the universe is manifesting right now via some online bloke named maxdprophet to interject rudely in a convo not having to do with him.... It seems like you, SDP, and Tzu, aren't really getting what ZD is saying here. "Let's go have a beer" may happen, who knows? Perhaps that would make sense given the situation. My guess is that ZD would go all ATA on his a55, Tzu would go all let-go-still-mind, and you would advise some combo of therapy and hardcore training (but really I have no clue). Stop killing peeps would probably be the first thing y'all would say to him. Who knows? The story of Milarepa primarily functions to aid people in buckling down, applying themselves, upping the earnestness and sincerity. It aids in reinforcing a culture of focus on the actual, on still mind, on ______. To say it is all 'perfectly so' does not mean someone doesn't say STOP!!! given a situation where a berobed spiritual dude is about to cut off the head of a journalist. STOP!! is exactly part of the 'perfectly so.' Get it?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Sept 18, 2014 9:37:19 GMT -5
To say that this is how the cosmos manifests should not be meant to say that it cannot be otherwise, at least for some individuals, or why should it? There is the story of Milarepa. His father died when he was seven and the family was taken over by his uncle. Uncle and wife didn't treat Milarepa and his mother too well and mother persuaded Milarepa to learn the art of black magic and sorcery to punish uncle. Milarepa did so and eventually killed at least 35 people. He later had remorse for his deeds and sought a teacher vowing to become a Buddha in one life. He found his teacher Marpa. For years Marpa made him jump through a lot of hoops, part of it building and tearing down four different buildings. Milarepa after years came to the point of despair left Marpa to find a different teacher and also became suicidal. Eventually Milarepa went back to Marpa, finished the teaching and became a teacher in the lineage, a very great teacher. So, ZD, say Milarepa comes to you, as a disciple, what do you tell him? You're just a cog in the machinery of the cosmos, it's not good or bad that you killed 35 people, it just happened, nothing to worry about, everything is perfectly so. Let's go have a beer.......?...... sdp Because the universe is manifesting right now via some online bloke named maxdprophet to interject rudely in a convo not having to do with him.... It seems like you, SDP, and Tzu, aren't really getting what ZD is saying here. "Let's go have a beer" may happen, who knows? Perhaps that would make sense given the situation. My guess is that ZD would go all ATA on his a55, Tzu would go all let-go-still-mind, and you would advise some combo of therapy and hardcore training (but really I have no clue). Stop killing peeps would probably be the first thing y'all would say to him. Who knows? The story of Milarepa primarily functions to aid people in buckling down, applying themselves, upping the earnestness and sincerity. It aids in reinforcing a culture of focus on the actual, on still mind, on ______. To say it is all 'perfectly so' does not mean someone doesn't say STOP!!! given a situation where a berobed spiritual dude is about to cut off the head of a journalist. STOP!! is exactly part of the 'perfectly so.' Get it? We don't have to tell Milarepa to stop with the sorcery business-stuff, stop killing people, he already has remorse, wants to be a Buddha. I know perfectly well what ZD will say, my question is virtually rhetorical. I just try to keep asking in many different ways, mostly ZD and E. I can agree with most of what they have to say, up to a point, but when they get to that point........well.......I'm Milarepa, asking.......how do I get past who I am? I was a really nasty dude, I'm hurting, I can't bear who I am, I can't stand the burden of killing those people. Life doesn't make any sense, life doesn't mean anything. I don't think I can keep living unless I can make life mean something. What I did is too hard to live with, I have to become different. How can you help me? People have said Marpa is your man, go see Marpa, if Marpa can't help nobody can help....... (Marpa = ZD FAPP)....... sdp
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Post by Reefs on Sept 18, 2014 10:52:46 GMT -5
So, ZD, say Milarepa comes to you, as a disciple, what do you tell him? You're just a cog in the machinery of the cosmos, it's not good or bad that you killed 35 people, it just happened, nothing to worry about, everything is perfectly so. Let's go have a beer.......?...... Let the Milarepa come and we'll see what happens.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 11:41:06 GMT -5
So, ZD, say Milarepa comes to you, as a disciple, what do you tell him? You're just a cog in the machinery of the cosmos, it's not good or bad that you killed 35 people, it just happened, nothing to worry about, everything is perfectly so. Let's go have a beer.......?...... Let the Milarepa come and we'll see what happens. Best idea really.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 12:13:44 GMT -5
Let the Milarepa come and we'll see what happens. Best idea really. Knowing Milarepa, this isn't out of the realm of possibility. The dude could fly!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 13:00:20 GMT -5
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