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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 8:39:37 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation...
good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan
is better than the infamous hamster wheel
not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum
isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........?
as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Aug 5, 2014 9:10:04 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thoughtie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........ This is an astute point, as IMO "fears, desires and other assorted processes" (emotional baggage) constitute self more than thinking thoughts.
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Post by runstill on Aug 5, 2014 11:10:51 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........Even though that may be true its still making a thing out of it that sounds unknowable and its not, the only requirement is absence of self.....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 12:49:39 GMT -5
as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........ Even though that may be true its still making a thing out of it that sounds unknowable and its not, the only requirement is absence of self..... words like emptiness and nothingness seem as close as language can get but I don't know what can be known about that sensed perhaps (not with the five senses), and while 'resting there', the self seems very small .. inconsequential even
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Post by laughter on Aug 5, 2014 13:25:20 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........ Just like the interconnected nature of the physical world that appears to us is only a sort of reflection of what the concept of nonduality points toward, actual silence that we can experience is a reflection of what is pointed to by the terms emptiness, the void, "pure potential", "the changeless" etc. Just as nonduality doesn't directly refer to an objectified interconnected whole, mental silence isn't the permanent absence of the thought process or the end to the process of identification with form, but the nature, origin and dynamics of those patterns of fear and desire become more apparent if the mind is still. Witnessing the arising of emotion or thought at the initial inception of it can become a self-reinforcing habit, and while there's noone that doesn't have a depth of a well for these forms that is, relative to our lifespan, essentially bottomless, at some point what does become clear is that it's not necessary to see to the bottom of the well, but instead only necessary to notice something about the nature of it's walls.
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Post by laughter on Aug 5, 2014 13:53:09 GMT -5
Even though that may be true its still making a thing out of it that sounds unknowable and its not, the only requirement is absence of self..... words like emptiness and nothingness seem as close as language can get but I don't know what can be known about that sensed perhaps (not with the five senses), and while 'resting there', the self seems very small .. inconsequential even There's 1 trillion stars in M101 and 31.54 million seconds in a year, so if you worked a 12 hour day with a half hour lunch and two 15 minute breaks you could name maybe 3 million of them a year if you worked at a rate of 1 star about every 5 seconds. So you'd be done with that job in 300,000 years, not accounting for weekends or vacations of course.
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Post by silver on Aug 5, 2014 15:15:31 GMT -5
Interesting way ta kill time....not!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 16:49:42 GMT -5
There's 1 trillion stars in M101 and 31.54 million seconds in a year, so if you worked a 12 hour day with a half hour lunch and two 15 minute breaks you could name maybe 3 million of them a year if you worked at a rate of 1 star about every 5 seconds. So you'd be done with that job in 300,000 years, not accounting for weekends or vacations of course. ok, I'll take your word for it then blatant creation overkill
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Post by enigma on Aug 5, 2014 20:13:51 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........ Right, if you wanted to JST, you would have JST'd long ago. A silent mind is a result and not a cause.
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Post by enigma on Aug 5, 2014 20:15:31 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........Even though that may be true its still making a thing out of it that sounds unknowable and its not, the only requirement is absence of self..... Yes
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Post by enigma on Aug 5, 2014 20:23:32 GMT -5
words like emptiness and nothingness seem as close as language can get but I don't know what can be known about that sensed perhaps (not with the five senses), and while 'resting there', the self seems very small .. inconsequential even There's 1 trillion stars in M101 and 31.54 million seconds in a year, so if you worked a 12 hour day with a half hour lunch and two 15 minute breaks you could name maybe 3 million of them a year if you worked at a rate of 1 star about every 5 seconds. So you'd be done with that job in 300,000 years, not accounting for weekends or vacations of course. So...what about profit sharing and dental coverage?
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Post by laughter on Aug 5, 2014 23:02:19 GMT -5
There's 1 trillion stars in M101 and 31.54 million seconds in a year, so if you worked a 12 hour day with a half hour lunch and two 15 minute breaks you could name maybe 3 million of them a year if you worked at a rate of 1 star about every 5 seconds. So you'd be done with that job in 300,000 years, not accounting for weekends or vacations of course. So...what about profit sharing and dental coverage? Current labor market is waaay too competitive, keep lookin' pal.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 7:33:09 GMT -5
some random observations about the JST* situation... good advice. perhaps useful for ZD's GRADUAL plan is better than the infamous hamster wheel not "all she wrote" though. fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought ie. does not solve the "mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master" conundrum isn't 'mental silence' a different kettle of fish from (capitalized) Silence........? as I understand the Big S, it's 'behind you', but can't be described .. has no attributes........ Right, if you wanted to JST, you would have JST'd long ago. A silent mind is a result and not a cause. Why would anyone want to stop thinking? The great thinkers of history are often enjoyed, celebrated .. emulated.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 8:23:09 GMT -5
fears, desires, and other assorted processes are still present, even in the absence of thought This is an astute point, as IMO "fears, desires and other assorted processes" (emotional baggage) constitute self more than thinking thoughts. what is a self? I see a body clomping around, a conglomerate of mental activities, and an assortment of unique personal information (most of that, baggage, as you say).... none of which seems built to last
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Post by silver on Aug 6, 2014 9:08:35 GMT -5
This is an astute point, as IMO "fears, desires and other assorted processes" (emotional baggage) constitute self more than thinking thoughts. what is a self? I see a body clomping around, a conglomerate of mental activities, and an assortment of unique personal information (most of that, baggage, as you say) but none of that seems built to last....When you're right, you're right.....except most here (?) tend to believe (!) that the bag o' bones is a vehicle for something rather precious (?) -- our souls, and/or consciousness/that intangible thing that makes us the sentimental fools that we are (I mainly am speaking for myself).
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