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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 10:59:07 GMT -5
There isn't a "the one". Oneness is what we're calling self, and the reflection of self, and whatever other distinctions we want to make. However, appearances don't have to appear. There isn't something that depends on it any more than something requires a reflection in a mirror in order to exist. You exist whether or not you can see your reflection. Appearances appear......and they reflect. I exist as appearances, meaning THIS is being. There is no self apart from being. That isn't saying they have to appear, that's saying they do, always did and always will. Self is a two sided coin. That is what I awakened to Can you say more about your experience of this "I" that "awakened to"?
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 11:16:33 GMT -5
Appearances appear......and they reflect. I exist as appearances, meaning THIS is being. There is no self apart from being. That isn't saying they have to appear, that's saying they do, always did and always will. Self is a two sided coin. That is what I awakened to Can you say more about your experience of this "I that awakened to"? Leading up to it would fill a book and within those years there were great discoveries but always I was left lacking something and compelled by a force outside myself to find it. Then one day I felt compelled to look at what is looking and that led me to an article and and exercise by Douglas Harding where suddenly I saw the simple thruth that what was looking at what was looking were the same and always was. It was aware and it was empty full of capacity which was brought to light when I turned my attention outward. They were one and the same but in a way that I can only explain as a two sided coin. By the way, please don't get hung up on the fact that Douglas Harding was involved, it could have just as well been Mickey Mouse. What I was seeking was seeking me and over the years it seems I was made ready by gently removing all of the fears I may have had about something I knew nothing about. Thanks for asking
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 11:35:36 GMT -5
Can you say more about your experience of this "I that awakened to"? Leading up to it would fill a book and within those years there were great discoveries but always I was left lacking something and compelled by a force outside myself to find it. Then one day I felt compelled to look at what is looking and that led me to an article and and exercise by Douglas Harding where suddenly I saw the simple thrush that what was looking at what was looking were the same and always was. It was aware and it was empty full of capacity which was brought to light when I turned my attention outward. They were one and the same but in a way that I can only explain as a two sided coin. By the way, please don't get hung up in the fact that Douglas Harding was involved, it could have just as well been Mickey Mouse. What I was seeking was seeking me and over the years it seems I was made ready by gently removing all of the fears I may have had about something I knew nothing about. Thanks for asking So you know your true self to be aware, empty and full of capacity and the world of thoughts, feelings and perceptions to be the same aware, empty, capacity. If you don't mind me asking, is it an intellectual understanding or is it a deeper experiential understanding?
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 11:45:20 GMT -5
Leading up to it would fill a book and within those years there were great discoveries but always I was left lacking something and compelled by a force outside myself to find it. Then one day I felt compelled to look at what is looking and that led me to an article and and exercise by Douglas Harding where suddenly I saw the simple thrush that what was looking at what was looking were the same and always was. It was aware and it was empty full of capacity which was brought to light when I turned my attention outward. They were one and the same but in a way that I can only explain as a two sided coin. By the way, please don't get hung up in the fact that Douglas Harding was involved, it could have just as well been Mickey Mouse. What I was seeking was seeking me and over the years it seems I was made ready by gently removing all of the fears I may have had about something I knew nothing about. Thanks for asking So you know your true self to be aware, empty and full of capacity and the world of thoughts, feelings and perceptions to be the same aware, empty, capacity. If you don't mind me asking, is it an intellectual understanding or is it a deeper experiential understanding? It's the same in that there is nothing other than........ but it arises from it. No this awakening to what I am is certainly not intellectual and ironically it is not deep at all. It's as simple as it gets and its as clear as can be and its closer than your breath as they say. The thing is that the simple truth of what we are cannot be conveyed and it found me. I didn't find it. What I mean by that is what I thought i was, did not find it. It found me. It brought new meaning into the term I AM.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:04:37 GMT -5
So you know your true self to be aware, empty and full of capacity and the world of thoughts, feelings and perceptions to be the same aware, empty, capacity. If you don't mind me asking, is it an intellectual understanding or is it a deeper experiential understanding? It's the same in that there is nothing other than........ but it arises from it. No this awakening to what I am is certainly not intellectual and ironically it is not deep at all. It's as simple as it gets and its as clear as can be and its closer than your breath as they say. The thing is that the simple truth of what we are cannot be conveyed and it found me. I didn't find it. What I mean by that is what I thought i was, did not find it. It found me. It brought new meaning into the term I AM. I guess what I mean is how has this understanding affected your thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships of the world you find yourself in. In other words what has been the by-product of this awakening. Increased peace, more happiness, less happiness, more anxiety, less anxiety, more turmoil, less turmoil, more confusion, less confusion, etc?
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 12:15:42 GMT -5
It's the same in that there is nothing other than........ but it arises from it. No this awakening to what I am is certainly not intellectual and ironically it is not deep at all. It's as simple as it gets and its as clear as can be and its closer than your breath as they say. The thing is that the simple truth of what we are cannot be conveyed and it found me. I didn't find it. What I mean by that is what I thought i was, did not find it. It found me. It brought new meaning into the term I AM. I guess what I mean is how has this understanding affected your thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships of the world you find yourself in. In other words what has been the by-product of this awakening. Increased peace, more happiness, less happiness, more anxiety, less anxiety, more turmoil, less turmoil, more confusion, less confusion, etc? The urge to seek for something missing is completely gone. Other than that life goes on but from this perspective. There is a peace in what I am within but I struggle with what arises, in fact it is struggling itself that is arising. I don't feel like i have any answers in regards to what arises except that there are no answers. The other side of what arises is groundless and this is what it looks like and feels like. I am learning to get comfortable with it. The ground of being is groundless.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:31:01 GMT -5
I guess what I mean is how has this understanding affected your thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships of the world you find yourself in. In other words what has been the by-product of this awakening. Increased peace, more happiness, less happiness, more anxiety, less anxiety, more turmoil, less turmoil, more confusion, less confusion, etc? The urge to seek for something missing is completely gone. Other than that life goes on but from this perspective. There is a peace in what I am within but I struggle with what arises, in fact it is struggling itself that is arising. I don't feel like i have any answers in regards to what arises except that there are no answers. The other side of what arises is groundless and this is what it looks like and feels like. I am learning to get comfortable with it. The ground of being is groundless. The only reason I asked and I'm not saying that this is your situation, is that some say that the ego can take on the intellectual understanding of what we truly are. What happens then is that the ego uses that understanding for it's own devices. While the by-product of a deep experiential understanding is one of a peacefulness that permeates ones thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships. Manifesting in more happiness. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 12:36:39 GMT -5
The urge to seek for something missing is completely gone. Other than that life goes on but from this perspective. There is a peace in what I am within but I struggle with what arises, in fact it is struggling itself that is arising. I don't feel like i have any answers in regards to what arises except that there are no answers. The other side of what arises is groundless and this is what it looks like and feels like. I am learning to get comfortable with it. The ground of being is groundless. The only reason I asked and I'm not saying that this is your situation, is that some say that the ego can take on the intellectual understanding of what we truly are. What happens then is that the ego uses that understanding for it's own devices. While the by-product of a deep experiential understanding is one of a peacefulness that permeates ones thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships. Manifesting in more happiness. Thanks for sharing. I don't know what ego refers to. The mind cannot think on its own. Waking up to oneself requires living life from a new perspective. That perspective permeates everything but I don't see any restrictions on what is manifested.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 12:52:00 GMT -5
The only reason I asked and I'm not saying that this is your situation, is that some say that the ego can take on the intellectual understanding of what we truly are. What happens then is that the ego uses that understanding for it's own devices. While the by-product of a deep experiential understanding is one of a peacefulness that permeates ones thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships. Manifesting in more happiness. Thanks for sharing. I don't know what ego refers to. The mind cannot think on its own. Waking up to oneself requires living life from a new perspective. That perspective permeates everything but I don't see any restrictions on what is manifested. What I mean by ego is the sense of a separate I. As you say living from a new perspective of what we truly are deals a death blow to this sense of a separate self as it is seen as ever only being an illusion. I wasn't implying that the perspective restricts what arises. But rather that the old habits and programing that arise are given less attention, less power until they finally don't even bother to show up anymore. I'm not anywhere close to what I'm sharing I'm just sharing.
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 13:05:12 GMT -5
I don't know what ego refers to. The mind cannot think on its own. Waking up to oneself requires living life from a new perspective. That perspective permeates everything but I don't see any restrictions on what is manifested. What I mean by ego is the sense of a separate I. As you say living from a new perspective of what we truly are deals a death blow to this sense of a separate self as it is seen as ever only being an illusion. I wasn't implying that the perspective restricts what arises. But rather that the old habits and programing that arise are given less attention, less power until they finally don't even bother to show up anymore. I'm not anywhere close to what I'm sharing I'm just sharing. But that's the beauty of it...it's not a blow to the sense of I because it is that sense of I that wakes up. It's almost a joke. Old habits and programming are gone before this happens as life prepares you for this..that's how i see it anyways. Otherwise you would never wake up. It's a gentle process, given to you at your own pace.....by yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 13:12:34 GMT -5
What I mean by ego is the sense of a separate I. As you say living from a new perspective of what we truly are deals a death blow to this sense of a separate self as it is seen as ever only being an illusion. I wasn't implying that the perspective restricts what arises. But rather that the old habits and programing that arise are given less attention, less power until they finally don't even bother to show up anymore. I'm not anywhere close to what I'm sharing I'm just sharing. But that's the beauty of it...it's not a blow to the sense of I because it is that sense of I that wakes up. It's almost a joke. Old habits and programming are gone before this happens as life prepares you for this..that's how i see it anyways. Otherwise you would never wake up. It's a gentle process, given to you at your own pace.....by yourself. Which I are you saying wakes up? The sense of a separate I or the I that we know ourselves to truly be?
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 13:21:17 GMT -5
But that's the beauty of it...it's not a blow to the sense of I because it is that sense of I that wakes up. It's almost a joke. Old habits and programming are gone before this happens as life prepares you for this..that's how i see it anyways. Otherwise you would never wake up. It's a gentle process, given to you at your own pace.....by yourself. Which I are you saying wakes up? The sense of a separate I or the I that we know ourselves to truly be? They are one and the same. It's closer than your breath.
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Post by enigma on Apr 15, 2014 17:51:57 GMT -5
How do you know appearances will always appear? If they did not, would you cease to exist? We would have to clarify the words 'know', 'appearances' , 'you' and 'if' for me to understand what you are asking. Oh and also the word 'exist' That doesn't leave much. You said "I exist as appearances", which you say is being, and you say there is no self apart from being, so that means there is no self apart from appearances. So I asked, if there were no appearances, would there be no self? I also asked how you know appearances will always appear.
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Post by whiteshaman on Apr 15, 2014 18:45:59 GMT -5
We would have to clarify the words 'know', 'appearances' , 'you' and 'if' for me to understand what you are asking. Oh and also the word 'exist' That doesn't leave much. You said "I exist as appearances", which you say is being, and you say there is no self apart from being, so that means there is no self apart from appearances. So I asked, if there were no appearances, would there be no self? I also asked how you know appearances will always appear. I followed it by saying " meaning THIS is being". Self is emptiness, Self is being. There cannot be being without self which I see clearly. You are asking if there can be no being and I would have to say no because it is seen that life, being is eternal. I cannot seperate the two. There is no seperation in the sense of seperation. Like I said before, it's a two sided coin.
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Post by laughter on Apr 15, 2014 20:28:29 GMT -5
The urge to seek for something missing is completely gone. Other than that life goes on but from this perspective. There is a peace in what I am within but I struggle with what arises, in fact it is struggling itself that is arising. I don't feel like i have any answers in regards to what arises except that there are no answers. The other side of what arises is groundless and this is what it looks like and feels like. I am learning to get comfortable with it. The ground of being is groundless. The only reason I asked and I'm not saying that this is your situation, is that some say that the ego can take on the intellectual understanding of what we truly are. What happens then is that the ego uses that understanding for it's own devices. While the by-product of a deep experiential understanding is one of a peacefulness that permeates ones thoughts, feelings, perceptions and relationships. Manifesting in more happiness. Thanks for sharing. Rather than more happiness, an alternative perspective is an absence of existential dread. In the sweep of life and the cycles of the play of appearances, that can appear to manifest as happiness, but most notions of happy tend toward the conditional.
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