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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 2:43:54 GMT -5
One of the reasons I posted the video is to show that if one doesn't have a cosmic conscious event no matter 'how it comes about' non-duality probably won't be understood, if this is the case and conceptual thinking , meditation and all other means haven't invoked CC.. lsd might be considered under the right circumstance's ... I'm curious did your event put you on a path to find truth? But when viewed from the perspective of Here, Now .. then the concepts of elapsing time, and paths, don't really make any sense. :-) |
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Post by quinn on Apr 11, 2014 6:27:40 GMT -5
The short answer would be, no, thirty more years elapsed before I even heard of a path... But when viewed from the perspective of Here, Now .. then the concepts of elapsing time, and paths, don't really make any sense. There was interest in the existential questions in the late teens and early 20's did a little philosophy in college,read most of Carlos Castaneda's books, the channeled Seth material. the bible and other stuff I no longer remember, J. Krishnamurti's book made the most lasting impression, like you 30 years would go by before the urge came up again when I stumbled across Tolle's teachings and then a CC event where non-separation was directly experience and mind was informed that self does not exist. Without the CC event there is just no way non-duality would make any sense from this perspective... If the individual has never had CC happen they are a like person blind from birth trying to understand what the sun is. Like the young woman in the video says 'if you can't see it, then you will never know'.. Your story is very similar to mine, runstill, except substitute Ram Dass for Castaneda. And rather than plunge into other reading, I went the chemical way - lots of lsd and mushrooms (and whatever else was handy). I don't remember any kind of oneness-trip, more of a realization that things are not as set and solid as they seem. But the whole period is a bit of a purple haze to me now.  (I wouldn't recommend this route, btw.) I find it interesting what you say about CC, though. Seems to be that there's an experiential element that is part of embodiment. I understand what's being said about realization being outside of 'time' and 'experience', but at the same time, it isn't in a vacuum. The CC experience seems to crystallize understanding into that unexplainable Knowing (that's not an intellectual knowing). So I think I get what you're saying. |
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Post by zendancer on Apr 11, 2014 7:02:04 GMT -5
A CC experience can give a glimpse of oneness, or it can result in numerous profound realizations through the illumination of mind. The most common realization that a CCE triggers is the realization that what we call "the universe/cosmos" is a unified living whole. Most people who have such experiences afterwards believe that the experience happened to who they THINK they are--a personal entity. Only rarely do such experiences collapse the illusion of selfhood permanently (the Buddha comes to mind as one of the rare exceptions). In most cases these kinds of experiences send people off in search of a way to re-create the experience, which may even strengthen the illusion that someone separate had the experience. It usually takes many more years and many other realizations before mind is informed concerning the nature of CC experiences and before self-realization occurs.
I have personally known at least two people who set out on the search for realization as a result of an initial drug-induced CC experience, but most people do not. They remember that they experienced something profound during the experience, but they can't remember what it was. One Zen Master told me that he went to a Zen dharma talk for the first time solely because a friend told him that it was possible to have CC experiences without having to take drugs. He had had a big LSD-triggered experience of oneness, and that experience led him, via Zen meditation, on a fifteen-year search for the truth.
Interestingly, Hakuin, a famous 18th century Japanese Zen Master wrote a book detailing his many experiences, and long after the realization that ended his spiritual search, he had the biggest CC experience of his life. He was awed by several such experiences, but he advised his students that becoming free of the mind was the most important thing. Bottom line? CC experiences are not necessary for self-realization, but they often have a profound effect upon the people who have them.
Having only read about the effects of LSD, I would never suggest its usage because a few people have gotten totally screwed up from only one bad trip.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 8:04:24 GMT -5
I went the chemical way - lots of lsd and mushrooms (and whatever else was handy). I just had the strangest dream .. what if this is just a flashback.... what if all of this, all of you, are just imaginations that I've conjured up on some crazy trip .. ahh man, I gotta sit down .. I gotta find some solid ground on which to stand...   |
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Post by Ishtahota on Apr 11, 2014 8:26:41 GMT -5
I remember doing the same experiment as her... with similar results And during the event .. very profound insights and understandings were seen/sensed/whatever But then it wore off, and none of the insights could be remembered exactly I find that a lot of people are given a mini awakening early on by the spirits to let us know what it is that we can have and be like if we will only do the work. It is like they give us a taste to help drive us forward. I have had a lot of the same experiences with and without the drugs. What the spirits told me about the forgetting is that I had not yet earned the ability to keep certain knowledge at the conscious everyday level. They said that the knowledge has been and will always be part of me, but access to this level of knowledge had to be earned. The shortcuts are only temporary. As I do my personal clearing work, getting rid of my hatreds, resentments, and my fears, my over all vibration is raised. It is this vibration that gives me access to this higher knowledge and the ability to remember it. The higher vibration also give me a greater level of comprehension of all of this knowledge. We human beings are far more then we have ever dreamed. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 11, 2014 8:30:26 GMT -5
I went the chemical way - lots of lsd and mushrooms (and whatever else was handy). I just had the strangest dream .. what if this is just a flashback.... what if all of this, all of you, are just imaginations that I've conjured up on some crazy trip .. ahh man, I gotta sit down .. I gotta find some solid ground on which to stand... sh!t!! he figured it out! now he knows! quick! everyone hide the evidence!  |
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Post by mamza on Apr 11, 2014 22:07:03 GMT -5
I went the chemical way - lots of lsd and mushrooms (and whatever else was handy). I just had the strangest dream .. what if this is just a flashback.... what if all of this, all of you, are just imaginations that I've conjured up on some crazy trip .. ahh man, I gotta sit down .. I gotta find some solid ground on which to stand... Legitimately my biggest fear for 6 months after doing LSD, and even now dwelling on the idea can freak me out a little (4 years later). Well, more precisely that the trip never ended and I'm still whacked out on drugs. Laughter: That photo would destroy my mind on drugs. |
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Post by laughter on Apr 11, 2014 23:21:11 GMT -5
I just had the strangest dream .. what if this is just a flashback.... what if all of this, all of you, are just imaginations that I've conjured up on some crazy trip .. ahh man, I gotta sit down .. I gotta find some solid ground on which to stand... Legitimately my biggest fear for 6 months after doing LSD, and even now dwelling on the idea can freak me out a little (4 years later). Well, more precisely that the trip never ended and I'm still whacked out on drugs. Laughter: That photo would destroy my mind on drugs.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 16:37:09 GMT -5
The first time I did lsd was on senior class day in high school (I didn't know what it would do) and a clique of us went to Kings Dominion (roller coaster park). Needless to say, weird day.
And probably forty times more after that. And as an aside .. if you missed seeing the Grateful Dead, tripping, especially, but not necessarily. Anyway, boo hoo for you. ;-) It was awesome. Energy, vibe, sights and sounds, truly an experience worthy to be called the indescribable fapfapfap .. and yes, you nay sayers out there, it was just a story .. but fúck it, it was a good one. ;-)
I drove home at the peak of tripping one time, omg, highly not recommended. Splashes of lights and color, a melting car .. a melting mind ... an alternate perception of reality. And on a couple of events .. Oneness was understood. "This is it!" etc. Then it wears off, and whatever that was, was gone.
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Post by quinn on Apr 13, 2014 17:31:57 GMT -5
The first time I did lsd was on senior class day in high school (I didn't know what it would do) and a clique of us went to Kings Dominion (roller coaster park). Needless to say, weird day. And probably forty times more after that. And as an aside .. if you missed seeing the Grateful Dead, tripping, especially, but not necessarily. Anyway, boo hoo for you. ;-) It was awesome. Energy, vibe, sights and sounds, truly an experience worthy to be called the indescribable fapfapfap .. and yes, you nay sayers out there, it was just a story .. but fúck it, it was a good one. ;-) I drove home at the peak of tripping one time, omg, highly not recommended. Splashes of lights and color, a melting car .. a melting mind ... an alternate perception of reality. And on a couple of events .. Oneness was understood. "This is it!" etc. Then it wears off, and whatever that was, was gone. Grateful Dead concerts...a taste of pure spontaneity and no solid ground except maybe the slow beat of Truckin'. |
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Post by japhy on Apr 14, 2014 13:07:37 GMT -5
Hey, maybe my first comment here was a little bit to negative, but I still see the validity of my questions. I have had some experiences with substances myself. When I was 18 years old I tried LSA (structure and effect similar to LSD, less potent, said to be less visual, more effect on thought). Considering my age it was a well prepared trip undertaken togehter with my two best friends, alone in a house with some mental preparation before. The trip was found positive and very impressing by all three of us. As far as I know none of us has (successfully) taken a potent hallucinogen since. I had the subjective feeling of understanding and a lot of the content during the trip actually school related :-D. I loved literature by that time in school (I even brought a certain book when we tripped)and I felt like understanding a lot of the work we had read in school better during the trip (especially romanticism). I also had a great pizza. Maybe the most important realisation I could take with me, was that I had to give up my oberserving position. On the one hand side I wnated to trip on the other hand side I was like a scientist who wanted to take note about everything. At one poit I realised that both would not be possible to maintain, if I wanted to go deeper, therefore I gave up the scientist. Maybe the only "negative" about the trip was that I did not wanted to return. I am not sure if it has send me on the "path" and I never will be sure, but I think I was somehow on the path before. I already had some (theoretical) interest in meditation and had tried some for me alone (far away from regular practice of course). Therefore I believe that I would have hit the path earlier or later in live, but the trip might have been an appetizer. As a matter of fact I started regular meditation only one and a half years later. Still I would not follow the prescribtion given here: One of the reasons I posted the video is to show that if one doesn't have a cosmic conscious event no matter 'how it comes about' non-duality probably won't be understood, if this is the case and conceptual thinking , meditation and all other means haven't invoked CC.. lsd might be considered under the right circumstance's ... Here a compilation of arguments which came to my mind and wich I have read in the thread: -The prescribtion given here seems rather theoretical to me, since I know (from reading and my modest own experience) no one who has followed practice with great interest for some months without any result. Maybe I am just one of the lucky ones... -Futhermore a drug does pull down barriers which are there for some reason. It might bring the organism to a point which is not healthy (physical or mental). The body/mind might not be ripe or mature enough. This should be respected. I emphazise this because I find my current state (which was not drug induced) challening. -The only map which use of hallucinogens usually gives the user is: I have used substance X and attained state Y. To attain state Y I have to use substance X. This will usually, if state Y was found desireable (which is to hope (?), since most users find "bad" trips challenging), lead to repeated use of the substance, which might not clear up things, as hoped for. -There is no "normal" level of experience to which the body/mind can get used but an alternation of extremes, everyday live and substance induced states. -The realizations are (mostly)not available when sober. -We cannot be sure if substance induced realization have the same quality than those attained without substances. The discussion also seems to suggest, that people with an inclination towards "Truth" might have their experiences with hallucinogens at some point, but some (who have come here now :-D) later abandon the use and continue with spiritual practices. They might be an appetizer in some transitional phase but we can't be sure. Until now no member has stated to seriously supplement there practice by use of hallucinogens or have come to an important realsation by use of hallucinogens only. I know this might have different reasons. |
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Post by runstill on Apr 14, 2014 19:41:08 GMT -5
Hey, maybe my first comment here was a little bit to negative, but I still see the validity of my questions. I have had some experiences with substances myself. When I was 18 years old I tried LSA (structure and effect similar to LSD, less potent, said to be less visual, more effect on thought). Considering my age it was a well prepared trip undertaken togehter with my two best friends, alone in a house with some mental preparation before. The trip was found positive and very impressing by all three of us. As far as I know none of us has (successfully) taken a potent hallucinogen since. I had the subjective feeling of understanding and a lot of the content during the trip actually school related :-D. I loved literature by that time in school (I even brought a certain book when we tripped)and I felt like understanding a lot of the work we had read in school better during the trip (especially romanticism). I also had a great pizza. Maybe the most important realisation I could take with me, was that I had to give up my oberserving position. On the one hand side I wnated to trip on the other hand side I was like a scientist who wanted to take note about everything. At one poit I realised that both would not be possible to maintain, if I wanted to go deeper, therefore I gave up the scientist. Maybe the only "negative" about the trip was that I did not wanted to return. I am not sure if it has send me on the "path" and I never will be sure, but I think I was somehow on the path before. I already had some (theoretical) interest in meditation and had tried some for me alone (far away from regular practice of course). Therefore I believe that I would have hit the path earlier or later in live, but the trip might have been an appetizer. As a matter of fact I started regular meditation only one and a half years later. Still I would not follow the prescribtion given here: One of the reasons I posted the video is to show that if one doesn't have a cosmic conscious event no matter 'how it comes about' non-duality probably won't be understood, if this is the case and conceptual thinking , meditation and all other means haven't invoked CC.. lsd might be considered under the right circumstance's ... Here a compilation of arguments which came to my mind and wich I have read in the thread: -The prescribtion given here seems rather theoretical to me, since I know (from reading and my modest own experience) no one who has followed practice with great interest for some months without any result. Maybe I am just one of the lucky ones... -Futhermore a drug does pull down barriers which are there for some reason. It might bring the organism to a point which is not healthy (physical or mental). The body/mind might not be ripe or mature enough. This should be respected. I emphazise this because I find my current state (which was not drug induced) challening. -The only map which use of hallucinogens usually gives the user is: I have used substance X and attained state Y. To attain state Y I have to use substance X. This will usually, if state Y was found desireable (which is to hope (?), since most users find "bad" trips challenging), lead to repeated use of the substance, which might not clear up things, as hoped for. -There is no "normal" level of experience to which the body/mind can get used but an alternation of extremes, everyday live and substance induced states. -The realizations are (mostly)not available when sober. -We cannot be sure if substance induced realization have the same quality than those attained without substances. The discussion also seems to suggest, that people with an inclination towards "Truth" might have their experiences with hallucinogens at some point, but some (who have come here now :-D) later abandon the use and continue with spiritual practices. They might be an appetizer in some transitional phase but we can't be sure. Until now no member has stated to seriously supplement there practice by use of hallucinogens or have come to an important realsation by use of hallucinogens only. I know this might have different reasons. Hi Japhy; I have never tried LSD or any hallucinogen and am not advocating that you or anyone should try it. The young women in the video was under the care and supervision of a doctor who specialized in the administration of LSD, in addition she had to have a very specific physiological profile to qualify to participate in the experiment. That is why I said "under the right circumstances". Her description of her direct experience of non-separation and no-self is very similar to what most if not all spiritual teachers try to convey to their students. My current thinking is that LSD didn't cause her to see/know the reality of non-separation and no-self but allowed the illusion of separation and self to disappear. Your birth right is/as loving breathing truth...nothing ever was or will ever be required...how could it be otherwise... |
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(I wouldn't recommend this route, btw.)
