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Post by jimmytantric on Sept 5, 2009 6:53:12 GMT -5
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO USE WORDS TO COMMUNICATE/ATTAIN ANY SUPPOSED STATE OF EXISTENCE THAT YOUR THOUGHTS TELL YOU EXISTS. AND IF YOU FACTOR IN HOW THE OTHER PERSON FILTERS YOUR WORDS BASED ON THEIR BELIEFS/CONDITIONING ETC. THIS PROCESS BECOMES ALMOST RIDICULOUS. RELIGIONS OR CONCEPTS ARE MERE THOUGHTS TO ESCAPE THE REALITY OF NO YOU. I UNDERSTAND THEY HAVE THEIR PLACE IN THIS DREAM/PHENOMENAL WORLD AND WITHOUT SUCH RELIGIONS MANY OF US CARTOON CHARACTERS WOULD LOSE IT SO THEY SERVE A PURPOSE IN THE ILLUSSION. YET CONSCIOUSNESS DOES NOT NEED US. WE ARE IN CONSCIOUSNESS, CONSCIOUSNESS IS NOT IN US! ME THINKS (POPEYE) THAT ALL THIS TALKING, SATSANGING, CHANTING,POTLUCK SPIRITUAL SOCIALISING ETC MAY BE JUST AN AVERSION, AN ESCAPE OR TIME FILLER ,IF YOU WILL. I BELIEVE IF U REALLY WANT TO EXPERIENCE STATES OF REALITY W/OUT USING DRUGS, RETREAT INTO SOLITUDE(NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THE FOREST AND LIVE IN A CAVE), DIE OF THE sELF AS CHRIST SAID- NOT A PHYSICAL DEATH BUT A DROPPING OF YOUR OPINIONS,LOSS OF YOUR FEARS, STOP COMPARING. SEE YOUR COMPETING NATURE FOR NO REASON, ETC. THIS JOURNEY IS A SELF AWRENESS TRIP- AS ANTHONY DEMELLO ASKED HIS PEERS"HOW DO YOU CHASE DARKNESS OUT OF A ROOM" TO WHICH HE REPLIED TURN A LIGHT SWITCH ON. WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING, AND THERE'S NOTHING TO KNOW, AND THE MIND CAN ONLY POINT U IN THE DIRECTION THEN IT MUST BE ABANDONED. THE ONE THING MIND/PEOPLE SHUN MORE THAN ANYTHING IS HAVING NOTHING TO DO/BOREDOM ETC. ARE WE JUST A BAG OF FLESH WITH FIVE SENSES THAT CONSTANTLY WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED OR ARE WE GODS OF LIGHT ,BEINGS NOT DOERS. I WILL END WITH A STORY. AN EAGLET DROPPED ONTO A CHICKEN FARM AND LIVED AMONGST THE CHICKENS EVENTUALLY GROWING TO MATURITY, YET ACTING JUST LIKE THE CHICKENS, CLUCKING ETC UNTIL ONE DAY, THE MATURE EAGLE WAS DRINKING FROM A CLEAR POND AND SEEN HIS/HER REFLECTION IN THE WATER. REALIZING HE WAS NOT A CHICKEN SHE SOARED TO THE HIGHEST MOUNTAIN NEVER TO RETURN. U ARE NOT HUMAN MY FRIENDS IT,S ONLY A COVERING THAT YOUR MIND/THOUGHTS USE TO VEIL U FROM WHAT U TRULY ARE PURE, BLISSFULL, CONSCIOUSNESS/LIGHT
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Post by divinity on Sept 5, 2009 16:51:02 GMT -5
Do you really think it is possible to drop our opinions completely? Most humans believe they ARE their opinions... LOL Dueling dogmas is the result. I think for one to have no opinions one would have to be brain dead, and you surely don't sound as if that is the case. I have found it easier to help people to begin new ways of perception than to get them to stop or change their view of the truth which is causing them heart and mind ache. Creation is always easier than destruction.
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Post by zendancer on Sept 6, 2009 9:12:27 GMT -5
Divinity: Yes, it is possible to drop opinions, judgements, fantasies, reflections, etc. completely. If you are walking through the woods and only listening, seeing, smelling, and feeling (directly perceiving the world through your senses), and your reflective mind is silent, you are not brain dead. You are simply experiencing the world in the same way that little children experience it. Anyone can learn to do this if there is sufficient interest. Most people have no control over the way they interact with the world, so they are therefore jerked around by their thoughts. In fact, most adults aren't even aware of how their mental habits affect their perception.
When we look at the world, we can either see WHAT IS or we can see what we cognize/ imagine--two radically different things. WHAT IS is dynamic, mysterious, and changes each moment. What we imagine is static and is much like a set of lifeless cartoons. There is a huge difference, for example, between a "tree" and what a tree IS. A "tree" is a dead image/idea/symbol. The truth is alive, unbounded, and transformative. In the real world there is no such thing as a "tree" because the real world is not composed of things and events--it is whole.
The average person looks at other people and sees them as fat or skinny, young or old, beautiful or ugly, black or white, etc. By contrast, a person who has learned to see without reflection or judgement only sees WHAT IS. The latter person is not projecting a screen of ideas upon the world, and this person's brain is far more alive and alert than the person's brain who is habituated to seeing only mental cartoons. Jesus' parable about the Good Samaritan is primarily about this issue. When you get a chance, re-read that parable with these thoughts in mind, and see what you think.
The most important question is how do we attain a non-reflective mind like the one exhibited by the Good Samaritan? I'll answer that one on another thread. Cheers.
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Post by divinity on Sept 13, 2009 10:14:53 GMT -5
When I was a child and began being indoctrinated with language and such and I looked at my favorite pine tree and lamented that now I couldn't "see" the tree as I had before I learned "bark", "brown", "green", "needles"... etc. I think only when we drop our physical bodies can we be totally opinonless. But that's just my opinion.
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Post by zendancer on Sept 13, 2009 12:30:12 GMT -5
Divinity: You can learn to see the tree again just like you saw it as a little child--without any words or ideas at all. You do not have to drop your physical body in order to be able to do this. Simply practice looking at the world without internal speech or thought. The more you do it, the easier it will become.
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Post by Peter on Sept 14, 2009 10:40:04 GMT -5
Jimmytantric, dude, your presentation is seriously hindering your valuable message!
Even God took a break between sentences.
Although I can imagine that He, too, spoke in ALL CAPITALS.
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Post by divinity on Sept 16, 2009 20:40:29 GMT -5
Zendancer is free of opinions and thoughts?
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Post by divinity on Sept 16, 2009 20:42:24 GMT -5
I think it's less dropping opinions and more not judging from one's personal perspective. What is the way to drop opinions? Give me the recipe!
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