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Post by quinn on Aug 28, 2013 20:34:15 GMT -5
Yeah, didn't mean to get all dramatic with the use of the word confronted. I'd agree that a gentle invitation is better than a blunt confrontation but in the final analysis that's just style. That idea that "well ... isn't that convenient ha! ha! ha! you lazy punk!", saw that one come and go for sure! The thing that eventually quelled the doubt about the laziness was like I said: I still meditate both sitting and moment-to-moment but it's just something that happens and when it doesn't just happen it just doesn't seem to me to be anything worth bothering with. It's paradox rearing it's head again SQ: imperative futility. This sort of poignant contradiction extends to the fact that some of the voices that have caught my attention most raptly, like ZD and a couple of guys from the Tolle board, were long-time and intense meditator's who eventually concluded that it wasn't through practice itself that they had the most profound self-realization. Re: imperative futility: Sometimes you've got to beat your head against the brick wall repeatedly, before you finally realize it just isn't going to go anywhere. I get the sense this is what Quinn is saying, but she can correct me if I'm wrong. I never did any consistent "spiritual practice" whatsoever, but I did my fair share of endlessly beating my head against different sorts of brick walls. Yes, that's part of it. Wanna see my bruises? The other part is that sometimes what's a brick wall of futility to one may end up being exactly what someone else needed. Take for example meditation. Most people have pretty active minds and some have really active minds. And some have really active minds that are hot-wired to their emotions. So to see even the smallest transient thing as transient is nearly impossible. A meditation and mindfulness practice can open that up. Someone else may be stridently determined to meditate until they're ALL WOKE UP and approach it like an athletic event. There's a case where it can be suggested that this is not about a 'doing'. Or...like you say, it may be they need to beat their head against that particular wall. The main thing I'm trying to say is that how someone is framing what they're doing is more to the point than what they are doing.
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Post by quinn on Aug 28, 2013 20:38:07 GMT -5
Re: imperative futility: Sometimes you've got to beat your head against the brick wall repeatedly, before you finally realize it just isn't going to go anywhere. I get the sense this is what Quinn is saying, but she can correct me if I'm wrong. I never did any consistent "spiritual practice" whatsoever, but I did my fair share of endlessly beating my head against different sorts of brick walls. Nah ... what I heard her say is that interruptin' the head-banger with a "hey, yer gonna' get a headache!" made her nauseous. Hummm. Got some blockage in those ears, eh? A good ENT will flush that out for you.
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Post by silence on Aug 28, 2013 20:43:46 GMT -5
Re: imperative futility: Sometimes you've got to beat your head against the brick wall repeatedly, before you finally realize it just isn't going to go anywhere. I get the sense this is what Quinn is saying, but she can correct me if I'm wrong. I never did any consistent "spiritual practice" whatsoever, but I did my fair share of endlessly beating my head against different sorts of brick walls. Yes, that's part of it. Wanna see my bruises? The other part is that sometimes what's a brick wall of futility to one may end up being exactly what someone else needed. Take for example meditation. Most people have pretty active minds and some have really active minds. And some have really active minds that are hot-wired to their emotions. So to see even the smallest transient thing as transient is nearly impossible. A meditation and mindfulness practice can open that up. Someone else may be stridently determined to meditate until they're ALL WOKE UP and approach it like an athletic event. There's a case where it can be suggested that this is not about a 'doing'. Or...like you say, it may be they need to beat their head against that particular wall. The main thing I'm trying to say is that how someone is framing what they're doing is more to the point than what they are doing. Right. Discussions of this nature must be very specific. When someone says practice isn't necessary, necessary for what? Necessary for waking up from the illusion of someone practicing something? No. Necessary or useful for gaining some baseline sanity for some- yes.
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Post by Reefs on Aug 31, 2013 12:57:34 GMT -5
Yes, that's part of it. Wanna see my bruises? The other part is that sometimes what's a brick wall of futility to one may end up being exactly what someone else needed. Take for example meditation. Most people have pretty active minds and some have really active minds. And some have really active minds that are hot-wired to their emotions. So to see even the smallest transient thing as transient is nearly impossible. A meditation and mindfulness practice can open that up. Someone else may be stridently determined to meditate until they're ALL WOKE UP and approach it like an athletic event. There's a case where it can be suggested that this is not about a 'doing'. Or...like you say, it may be they need to beat their head against that particular wall. The main thing I'm trying to say is that how someone is framing what they're doing is more to the point than what they are doing. Right. Discussions of this nature must be very specific. When someone says practice isn't necessary, necessary for what? Necessary for waking up from the illusion of someone practicing something? No. Necessary or useful for gaining some baseline sanity for some- yes. Quite so.
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Post by Reefs on Aug 31, 2013 13:02:18 GMT -5
I imagine some kind of spiritual competition: "Ha! Your bruises are nothing compared to my dark night of the soul!"
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Post by quinn on Sept 1, 2013 11:14:17 GMT -5
I imagine some kind of spiritual competition: "Ha! Your bruises are nothing compared to my dark night of the soul!" Nah. More in the spirit of commiseration. Yes, I too have gone the idiot route. May still be doing it. Yanno, now that you mention it, I haven't had a dark night of the soul. I had been in a hellish place before turning towards spirituality. Since then, no dark night, no woo woo unity experiences, no extreme anything. I must not be sincere enough
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Post by silence on Sept 1, 2013 12:12:42 GMT -5
I imagine some kind of spiritual competition: "Ha! Your bruises are nothing compared to my dark night of the soul!" Nah. More in the spirit of commiseration. Yes, I too have gone the idiot route. May still be doing it. Yanno, now that you mention it, I haven't had a dark night of the soul. I had been in a hellish place before turning towards spirituality. Since then, no dark night, no woo woo unity experiences, no extreme anything. I must not be sincere enough Out of curiosity, what did it mean to you to turn towards spirituality?
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Post by quinn on Sept 1, 2013 13:15:31 GMT -5
Nah. More in the spirit of commiseration. Yes, I too have gone the idiot route. May still be doing it. Yanno, now that you mention it, I haven't had a dark night of the soul. I had been in a hellish place before turning towards spirituality. Since then, no dark night, no woo woo unity experiences, no extreme anything. I must not be sincere enough Out of curiosity, what did it mean to you to turn towards spirituality? Well, basically it meant not looking for circumstances or anything external to satisfy the sense that something's missing or something's wrong. I started with meditation, then got exposed to a couple of teachers that turned my thinking upside down. Or maybe right-side up. Plus, with meditation, I began to notice how debilitating all the naggy voices in my head were. So it became clear pretty quickly what was causing all the misery. No one else, that's for sure. The spirituality part just seemed to come with the territory of meditation and self-inquiry. Even though I hadn't heard of the "Who am I?" question, that just spontaneously happened. Everything began to be questioned. So in a nutshell, I basically wanted to feel better and stopped looking outward for how to do that. Eventually all that questioning led to more questioning and feeling better was no longer as important as finding out what's really going on. When 'I' get out of the way, what's really there? I guess that would be my definition of spirituality.
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Post by silence on Sept 1, 2013 13:25:39 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what did it mean to you to turn towards spirituality? Well, basically it meant not looking for circumstances or anything external to satisfy the sense that something's missing or something's wrong. I started with meditation, then got exposed to a couple of teachers that turned my thinking upside down. Or maybe right-side up. Plus, with meditation, I began to notice how debilitating all the naggy voices in my head were. So it became clear pretty quickly what was causing all the misery. No one else, that's for sure. The spirituality part just seemed to come with the territory of meditation and self-inquiry. Even though I hadn't heard of the "Who am I?" question, that just spontaneously happened. Everything began to be questioned. So in a nutshell, I basically wanted to feel better and stopped looking outward for how to do that. Eventually all that questioning led to more questioning and feeling better was no longer as important as finding out what's really going on. When 'I' get out of the way, what's really there? I guess that would be my definition of spirituality. Okay, thanks.
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Post by Reefs on Sept 2, 2013 6:00:56 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what did it mean to you to turn towards spirituality? Well, basically it meant not looking for circumstances or anything external to satisfy the sense that something's missing or something's wrong. I started with meditation, then got exposed to a couple of teachers that turned my thinking upside down. Or maybe right-side up. Plus, with meditation, I began to notice how debilitating all the naggy voices in my head were. So it became clear pretty quickly what was causing all the misery. No one else, that's for sure. The spirituality part just seemed to come with the territory of meditation and self-inquiry. Even though I hadn't heard of the "Who am I?" question, that just spontaneously happened. Everything began to be questioned. So in a nutshell, I basically wanted to feel better and stopped looking outward for how to do that. Eventually all that questioning led to more questioning and feeling better was no longer as important as finding out what's really going on. When 'I' get out of the way, what's really there? I guess that would be my definition of spirituality. Okay, so you didn't go for the Age of Aquarius stuff.
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Post by quinn on Sept 2, 2013 6:40:52 GMT -5
Well, basically it meant not looking for circumstances or anything external to satisfy the sense that something's missing or something's wrong. I started with meditation, then got exposed to a couple of teachers that turned my thinking upside down. Or maybe right-side up. Plus, with meditation, I began to notice how debilitating all the naggy voices in my head were. So it became clear pretty quickly what was causing all the misery. No one else, that's for sure. The spirituality part just seemed to come with the territory of meditation and self-inquiry. Even though I hadn't heard of the "Who am I?" question, that just spontaneously happened. Everything began to be questioned. So in a nutshell, I basically wanted to feel better and stopped looking outward for how to do that. Eventually all that questioning led to more questioning and feeling better was no longer as important as finding out what's really going on. When 'I' get out of the way, what's really there? I guess that would be my definition of spirituality. Okay, so you didn't go for the Age of Aquarius stuff. Well, I left out a few side trips. But they were short-lived. A little NDE, David Icke and the reptile people, aliens and angels, Greg Braden. Fascinating stuff. But I got lucky and stumbled on Jac O'Keefe, Gangaji and Adya pretty early on.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 2, 2013 9:42:22 GMT -5
Greetings.. Okay, so you didn't go for the Age of Aquarius stuff. Well, I left out a few side trips. But they were short-lived. A little NDE, David Icke and the reptile people, aliens and angels, Greg Braden. Fascinating stuff. But I got lucky and stumbled on Jac O'Keefe, Gangaji and Adya pretty early on. Like most people, you 'stumbled' from teacher to teacher, path to path, belief to belief, until you find what satisfies your current preferences.. letting go of teachers, paths, beliefs, ideologies, letting go of all attachments frees the mind to receive information unfiltered by those influences, clarity.. I have made my own journey through the 'Spiritual Circus', discovering that the less 'baggage' i carry the more awe and wonder is revealed.. Be well..
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Post by quinn on Sept 2, 2013 10:00:24 GMT -5
Greetings.. Well, I left out a few side trips. But they were short-lived. A little NDE, David Icke and the reptile people, aliens and angels, Greg Braden. Fascinating stuff. But I got lucky and stumbled on Jac O'Keefe, Gangaji and Adya pretty early on. Like most people, you 'stumbled' from teacher to teacher, path to path, belief to belief, until you find what satisfies your current preferences.. letting go of teachers, paths, beliefs, ideologies, letting go of all attachments frees the mind to receive information unfiltered by those influences, clarity.. I have made my own journey through the 'Spiritual Circus', discovering that the less 'baggage' i carry the more awe and wonder is revealed.. Be well.. Yes. It's all settled down now. I wouldn't discourage anyone from attending the circus, though.
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Post by tzujanli on Sept 3, 2013 5:00:38 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Like most people, you 'stumbled' from teacher to teacher, path to path, belief to belief, until you find what satisfies your current preferences.. letting go of teachers, paths, beliefs, ideologies, letting go of all attachments frees the mind to receive information unfiltered by those influences, clarity.. I have made my own journey through the 'Spiritual Circus', discovering that the less 'baggage' i carry the more awe and wonder is revealed.. Be well.. Yes. It's all settled down now. I wouldn't discourage anyone from attending the circus, though. Agreed, as long as the visitor realizes, like any 'Circus' it's a small distraction in a much greater happening, an illusion designed to dazzle and baffle and capture your attention for a price.. Be well..
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Post by vacant on Sept 8, 2013 12:30:52 GMT -5
Sometimes when I look at the boards, I think "What have I done?" I notice with a mix of amusement and disappointment the number of posts on the different forums: - Only 380 posts in the "spiritual friends" board (which was the original purpose of this site)
- 125,000 "general spiritual discussion" posts
- Nearly 8500 "unmoderated discussion" posts (a board started only a few weeks ago and which has become an ego-parading penisfight)
- 4000 posts about "spiritual teachers"
I suppose my original intent of helping people to meet face-to-face with others has been supplanted by technology such as Meetup, so in that respect I shouldn't be surprised. And I was very happy to meet a couple of people at a recent TAT meeting who are members of this site... so perhaps there are a few meetings that have materialized from this place. Maybe it's not so bad.... Is there value here, or are most people just killing time with intellectual cleverness? Are people questioning themselves, or bolstering their opinions on the backs of others? BTW, I'm considering adding the phrases "there is no one to get enlightened," "there is no enlightenment," "you are already enlightened" and "there is nothing to do" to the list of banned words. Many reassurances here that this project is much appreciated, even if it has morphed into a monster far removed from what you might have intended " Is there value here, or are most people just killing time with intellectual cleverness? " This statement makes it clear you estimate that killing time with intellectual cleverness is devoid of value. I despair with you but evidently there is value here for some, well done! ;-) I add my voice to the thank-youz, but please don't worry about the guises of Creation, taking credit would only be vanity. I trust you let it pass as such. Yours gratefully.
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