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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 17, 2013 22:32:54 GMT -5
Good. Then what are you imagining? Your question is misconceived, sN. Then what is being imagined?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 22:47:51 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm leaning this way, myself. Seems like more belief, more attachment. More smug knowitallness. A more useful exploration may be to look inside at what YOU can know or not know, versus looking at others to see what is knowable. Can YOU know anything? If not, why keep exploring? Exploring happens.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 22:49:30 GMT -5
A more useful exploration may be to look inside at what YOU can know or not know, versus looking at others to see what is knowable. Can YOU know anything? If not, why keep exploring? Obviously, you guys just don't get it. I've already said a gazillion times that I don't know jack. But, that doesn't mean that there's no longer questions. But, according to E, that's some sort of wrong. Like he shoots you right out of the gate--your question is obviously misconceived. I'm likely to quote these words of his, the very next time he asks a question, himself. Payback time?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 22:52:30 GMT -5
What if instead of "the question is misconceived" we say "the question is imagined" ? As Tzu recommends, can you still your mind and then watch the questions pop in and out of existence? Can you notice them fly by? What am I doing here? Why am I doing this? How did I get here? Why am I itchy? Why am I hungry? How come one question more important than another? What am I supposed to do? I can't take it anymore! *** Gets off the chair and starts looking for peanuts *** Aren't all questions imagined? How else is one supposed to 'undo' what the mind has 'done', per Niz? I think it's rather presumptuous to dismiss out of hand a simple but no less significant question as 'what is it that even asks questions?'. Ramana is rolling in his grave at such knowitallness. You sure he was buried?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 22:56:20 GMT -5
What questions are there, really, when there are no answers? Have you ever really found any answers? Sounds like another misconceived question. Only one answer I've received, ultimately--I am. But, I'd never have found that, had I not asked a plethora of other questions, first. Frankly, I'm somewhat offended that peeps around here are so quick to dismiss the necessity of seeking in order to realize that there is nothing for which to seek. Isn't "jsut BE" the same message?
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 22:59:01 GMT -5
Agreed, no shame either way, which is why it is appalling that some around here make attempts to shame anyone who has a question. Seriously, it makes me wonder if it would be best to bail from this place. Your last sentence, I simply don't understand. Trust? Whom to trust? ... at the risk of getting flak for asking the question, of course. If you trust yourself with the question then who gives a flying f.uck about what anyone else thinks about it? U.G. talks about "the courage to stand alone"
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 17, 2013 23:01:05 GMT -5
Aren't all questions imagined? How else is one supposed to 'undo' what the mind has 'done', per Niz? I think it's rather presumptuous to dismiss out of hand a simple but no less significant question as 'what is it that even asks questions?'. Ramana is rolling in his grave at such knowitallness. You sure he was buried? Ha! Likely not. Beingist, then clarify this question...'what is it that even asks questions'. If you must.
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 23:04:12 GMT -5
I don't know how else pointing out that your questions are misconceived becomes dismissal to you unless the seeking itself is being cherished and held onto. I'm not cherishing them for myself. I've only been saying all along that there is a need to seek before one can discover (or realize) that there's nothing to seek. You're making the assumption that I'm holding on to seeking, when, in fact, I'm speaking up for the right, nay the need, for any spiritual seeker to seek at all. Now, you echo E's sentiments that internal inquiry is 'misconceived'. Do you ever inquire within? Have you never asked yourself a question? So, Ramana instructed his students to ask themselves misconceived questions?You presume a lot, mister Iknoweverything. Andyashanti:
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Post by Reefs on Jun 17, 2013 23:09:08 GMT -5
I'm not cherishing them for myself. I've only been saying all along that there is a need to seek before one can discover (or realize) that there's nothing to seek. You're making the assumption that I'm holding on to seeking, when, in fact, I'm speaking up for the right, nay the need, for any spiritual seeker to seek at all. Now, you echo E's sentiments that internal inquiry is 'misconceived'. Do you ever inquire within? Have you never asked yourself a question? So, Ramana instructed his students to ask themselves misconceived questions? You presume a lot, mister Iknoweverything. In your opinion does seeking need to be condoned to continue? Is the emptiness to continue seeking fulfillment or to be found by what has actually been looking all along? If there wouldn't be the assumption that a realization realization has some kind of cause or could be induced then the question if seeking is valuable or not, good or bad wouldn't even arise. Seeking happens. Deal with it.
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Post by Beingist on Jun 17, 2013 23:09:46 GMT -5
I'm not cherishing them for myself. I've only been saying all along that there is a need to seek before one can discover (or realize) that there's nothing to seek. You're making the assumption that I'm holding on to seeking, when, in fact, I'm speaking up for the right, nay the need, for any spiritual seeker to seek at all. Now, you echo E's sentiments that internal inquiry is 'misconceived'. Do you ever inquire within? Have you never asked yourself a question? So, Ramana instructed his students to ask themselves misconceived questions? You presume a lot, mister Iknoweverything. Well do you think that Ramana ever expected his students to find an answer to the question? I don't know. But, to my knowledge, he didn't tell them in the same breath that it was 'misconceived'. I could agree with this, if it is directed to one who is suffering, in a way, trying to find an answer to something. But, as it was directed toward myself, by someone who considers themselves aware of sincere intentions, I do not view it as an act of compassion. No. I've long considered that the question was never meant to be answered at all. It's rather unanswerable, to me. Still don't keep me from asking it, though.
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Post by laughter on Jun 17, 2013 23:11:20 GMT -5
Well do you think that Ramana ever expected his students to find an answer to the question? I don't know. But, to my knowledge, he didn't tell them in the same breath that it was 'misconceived'. I could agree with this, if it is directed to one who is suffering, in a way, trying to find an answer to something. But, as it was directed toward myself, by someone who considers themselves aware of sincere intentions, I do not view it as an act of compassion. No. I've long considered that the question was never meant to be answered at all. It's rather unanswerable, to me. Still don't keep me from asking it, though. fair enough!
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Post by laughter on Jun 17, 2013 23:20:28 GMT -5
In your opinion does seeking need to be condoned to continue? Is the emptiness to continue seeking fulfillment or to be found by what has actually been looking all along? If there wouldn't be the assumption that a realization realization has some kind of cause or could be induced then the question if seeking is valuable or not, good or bad wouldn't even arise. Seeking happens. Deal with it. ... so uhm ... how exactly do you propose to .... "deal with it"?
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 17, 2013 23:20:47 GMT -5
In your opinion does seeking need to be condoned to continue? Is the emptiness to continue seeking fulfillment or to be found by what has actually been looking all along? If there wouldn't be the assumption that a realization realization has some kind of cause or could be induced then the question if seeking is valuable or not, good or bad wouldn't even arise. Seeking happens. Deal with it.
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Post by someNOTHING! on Jun 17, 2013 23:24:18 GMT -5
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Post by Reefs on Jun 18, 2013 0:00:04 GMT -5
If there wouldn't be the assumption that a realization realization has some kind of cause or could be induced then the question if seeking is valuable or not, good or bad wouldn't even arise. Seeking happens. Deal with it. ... so uhm ... how exactly do you propose to .... "deal with it"? Yes, the dirty Harry approach looks very convincing.
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