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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 28, 2013 10:58:33 GMT -5
Anybody here concerned about the relationship between a non-experience of nonduality (just trying to cover the bases here, as I guess an experience of nonduality would imply a self) and what remains after the non-experience? What constitutes self? At some stage we all experience self, doing this and that and making decisions, we all have suffered or are suffering, most of us have goals, aims and ambitions. In the East there is the idea of samskaras, karmic residue from doing stuff, and the stuff that results out of that doing, etc., etc., etc., IOW, cause and effect.
The samskaras extend back to a former life, lives even, and if one doesn't break the chain of cause and effect, the samskaras will incarnate in the future (not, of course, 'us' as Tom, Harry or Sally, IOW, cultural self/ego). Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? How would one know if it did? Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues?
What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras?
................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain....
(It's so noisy at the fair, but all your friends are there....ain't it funny how it feels when you're finding out life's real.....You can't be twen-ty on Sugar Mountain, for you know that you'll be leaving there too soon..you're leaving there too soon..........Neil Young, written at 19).
sdp
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Post by Reefs on Apr 28, 2013 11:13:28 GMT -5
Anybody here concerned about the relationship between a non-experience of nonduality (just trying to cover the bases here, as I guess an experience of nonduality would imply a self) and what remains after the non-experience? What constitutes self? At some stage we all experience self, doing this and that and making decisions, we all have suffered or are suffering, most of us have goals, aims and ambitions. In the East there is the idea of samskaras, karmic residue from doing stuff, and the stuff that results out of that doing, etc., etc., etc., IOW, cause and effect. The samskaras extend back to a former life, lives even, and if one doesn't break the chain of cause and effect, the samskaras will incarnate in the future (not, of course, 'us' as Tom, Harry or Sally, IOW, cultural self/ego). Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? How would one know if it did? Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues? What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras? ................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain.... (It's so noisy at the fair, but all your friends are there....ain't it funny how it feels when you're finding out life's real.....You can't be twen-ty on Sugar Mountain, for you know that you'll be leaving there too soon..you're leaving there too soon..........Neil Young, written at 19). sdp Dear Dude/Dudette, Who has all these questions? Sincerely, The Great Blue Hole Of Belize |
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 28, 2013 11:19:57 GMT -5
Greetings.. Anybody here concerned about the relationship between a non-experience of nonduality (just trying to cover the bases here, as I guess an experience of nonduality would imply a self) and what remains after the non-experience? What constitutes self? At some stage we all experience self, doing this and that and making decisions, we all have suffered or are suffering, most of us have goals, aims and ambitions. In the East there is the idea of samskaras, karmic residue from doing stuff, and the stuff that results out of that doing, etc., etc., etc., IOW, cause and effect. The samskaras extend back to a former life, lives even, and if one doesn't break the chain of cause and effect, the samskaras will incarnate in the future (not, of course, 'us' as Tom, Harry or Sally, IOW, cultural self/ego). Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? How would one know if it did? Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues? What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras? ................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain.... (It's so noisy at the fair, but all your friends are there....ain't it funny how it feels when you're finding out life's real.....You can't be twen-ty on Sugar Mountain, for you know that you'll be leaving there too soon..you're leaving there too soon..........Neil Young, written at 19). sdp Cause: Let it go.. Effect: It's gone.. If you are buying into a 'Karma' belief, you will manifest a 'Karma' effect.. just let it go, it is a pointless distraction from what is actually happening.. 'Karma' is an attachment to a self-fulfilling belief, just let it go.. Be well.. |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 28, 2013 11:25:39 GMT -5
Greetings.. Anybody here concerned about the relationship between a non-experience of nonduality (just trying to cover the bases here, as I guess an experience of nonduality would imply a self) and what remains after the non-experience? What constitutes self? At some stage we all experience self, doing this and that and making decisions, we all have suffered or are suffering, most of us have goals, aims and ambitions. In the East there is the idea of samskaras, karmic residue from doing stuff, and the stuff that results out of that doing, etc., etc., etc., IOW, cause and effect. The samskaras extend back to a former life, lives even, and if one doesn't break the chain of cause and effect, the samskaras will incarnate in the future (not, of course, 'us' as Tom, Harry or Sally, IOW, cultural self/ego). Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? How would one know if it did? Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues? What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras? ................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain.... (It's so noisy at the fair, but all your friends are there....ain't it funny how it feels when you're finding out life's real.....You can't be twen-ty on Sugar Mountain, for you know that you'll be leaving there too soon..you're leaving there too soon..........Neil Young, written at 19). sdp Cause: Let it go.. Effect: It's gone.. If you are buying into a 'Karma' belief, you will manifest a 'Karma' effect.. just let it go, it is a pointless distraction from what is actually happening.. 'Karma' is an attachment to a self-fulfilling belief, just let it go.. Be well.. I'm very glad to hear that you are free of suffering........that's quite awesome...... sdp |
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Post by laughter on Apr 28, 2013 11:32:30 GMT -5
Why worry so much 'Pilgrim ... won't they just grow back every spring?...  |
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 28, 2013 11:34:14 GMT -5
Greetings.. Greetings.. Cause: Let it go.. Effect: It's gone.. If you are buying into a 'Karma' belief, you will manifest a 'Karma' effect.. just let it go, it is a pointless distraction from what is actually happening.. 'Karma' is an attachment to a self-fulfilling belief, just let it go.. Be well.. I'm very glad to hear that you are free of suffering........that's quite awesome...... sdp Who said i'm "free of suffering"? I'm just mot attached to it.. stuff happens, then more stuff happens, don't get stuck in 'stuff', especially if some of that 'stuff' is identified as 'suffering'.. Be well.. |
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Post by Reefs on Apr 28, 2013 11:50:35 GMT -5
Dear Dude/Dudette,
Attachment to dos & don'ts is an interesting phenomenon.
Sincerely,
The Great Blue Hole Of Belize
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 28, 2013 12:15:53 GMT -5
If there is any suffering, apart from physical suffering, there is a cause for that suffering. If there is psychological suffering then one is not free.
Suffering is the stick. Up to a point, freedom is the carrot.
sdp
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Post by silence on Apr 28, 2013 12:47:48 GMT -5
If there is any suffering, apart from physical suffering, there is a cause for that suffering. If there is psychological suffering then one is not free. Suffering is the stick. Up to a point, freedom is the carrot. sdp Life is suffering. Nothing to see here, keep it moving.  |
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Post by enigma on Apr 28, 2013 12:59:02 GMT -5
It must be Synical Sunday.  |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 28, 2013 14:30:53 GMT -5
If there is any suffering, apart from physical suffering, there is a cause for that suffering. If there is psychological suffering then one is not free. Suffering is the stick. Up to a point, freedom is the carrot. sdp Life is suffering. Nothing to see here, keep it moving. So, you're saying that it's not true that Buddha ended his suffering? sdp |
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Post by merrick on Apr 28, 2013 14:33:53 GMT -5
Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? It does not. . How would one know if it did? This knowledge is non-transferable. Everybody has to find out for themselves and I believe that you know it, so this is probably only a rhetorical question. Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues? Few people are so naive (or so haughty) to believe that their samskaras are going to be exhausted in this life. What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras? I believe, the Buddha said it clearly: "The cause of all unsatisfactoriness (dukka) is clinging". And as to me, clinging dissolves in unconditional Love only. Until we learn to Love unconditionally we can never be free, no matter how much we try to affirm that duality does not exist. .................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain.... It's not an irrelevant nonsense, but everyone has to answer those questions for themselves, through direct insight. Otherwise it's just a philosophy, intelectual stuff, which can never comprehend the Truth but can go on and on, for ever. Merrick |
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Apr 28, 2013 14:42:07 GMT -5
Does a non-experience of nonduality wipe out the karmic residue? It does not. . How would one know if it did? This knowledge is non-transferable. Everybody has to find out for themselves and I believe that you know it, so this is probably only a rhetorical question. Is this a concern to anyone? Anybody worried that if the samskaras are not exhausted in this life they will continue in another life and thus the pain and suffering continues? Few people are so naive (or so haughty) to believe that their samskaras are going to be exhausted in this life. What is it that exhausts the perpetuity of the samskaras? I believe, the Buddha said it clearly: "The cause of all unsatisfactoriness (dukka) is clinging". And as to me, clinging dissolves in unconditional Love only. Until we learn to Love unconditionally we can never be free, no matter how much we try to affirm that duality does not exist. .................Now, we can take this as all theoretical nonsense, irrelevant, but then, why are you here and not out enjoying life.....on Sugar Mountain.... It's not an irrelevant nonsense, but everyone has to answer those questions for themselves, through direct insight. Otherwise it's just a philosophy, intelectual stuff, which can never comprehend the Truth but can go on and on, for ever. Merrick Thanks merrick. ..........However, one point, it has to be possible to become fully liberated in a single life, or else nobody has ever been liberated. Why not this life? sdp |
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Post by tzujanli on Apr 28, 2013 14:43:20 GMT -5
Greetings.. If there is any suffering, apart from physical suffering, there is a cause for that suffering. If there is psychological suffering then one is not free. Suffering is the stick. Up to a point, freedom is the carrot. sdp Life is suffering. Nothing to see here, keep it moving. Life is Life.. "pain is inevitable, suffering is optional".. attachment to pain, is suffering.. Aside from those actualities, i understand that often people refer to pain as 'suffering'.. Be well.. |
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Post by merrick on Apr 28, 2013 15:07:48 GMT -5
However, one point, it has to be possible to become fully liberated in a single life, or else nobody has ever been liberated. Why not this life? As to me, liberation usually comes after many life-times of learning. If someone gets liberated in this life-time, it is because they have completed their work which had started in previous incarnations but we only see the end result. Merrick |
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