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Post by klaus on Jan 1, 2012 16:58:47 GMT -5
Both were men of their time. What they did and said were of their time and that cannot be translated to today. They're just dusty words to us coming to us from thousands of years ago.
Jesus blew it by expecting "GOD" to take him off the cross. Instead he left him hanging on the cross to die. He was to into his own image as the messiah saving the nation of Israel. Jesus did not get it. Has anybody see Jesus lately? What made Jesus what he is today is the two thousand years of bul*nuts that followed his death. Beliefs about; not actual facts.
Buddha, looks for wisdom and enlightenment, and his first teacher is Alara Kalama, who teaches 'nothingness' But Buddha doesn't like this teaching, says it only leads to 'nothing'. He too missed the point as Jesus did. Buddha went on to build his community of monks. And the eight-fold path and the bs that goes with it and the thousands of interpretations that followed it built up his image to what it is today.
Ii other words both had the chance for enlightenment and both blew it.
Same goes for any other teacher after them.
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Post by enigma on Jan 1, 2012 17:25:26 GMT -5
So who didn't miss the enlightenment boat? Anybody?
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Post by therealfake on Jan 1, 2012 17:29:42 GMT -5
Both were men of their time. What they did and said were of their time and that cannot be translated to today. They're just dusty words to us coming to us from thousands of years ago. Jesus blew it by expecting "GOD" to take him off the cross. Instead he left him hanging on the cross to die. He was to into his own image as the messiah saving the nation of Israel. Jesus did not get it. What made Jesus what he is today is the two thousand years of bul*nuts that followed his death. Beliefs about; not actual facts. Buddha, looks for wisdom and enlightenment, and his first teacher is Alara Kalama, who teaches 'nothingness' But Buddha doesn't like this teaching, says it only leads to 'nothing'. He too missed the point as Jesus did. Buddha went on to build his community of monks. And the eight-fold path and the bs that goes with it and the thousands of interpretations that followed it built up his image to what it is today. Ii other words both had the chance for enlightenment and both blew it. Perhaps you've got a point, if your point is to have a greivance with peeps like Jesus or Buddha. I mean that's the minds game right? It tells you that if someone like Jesus or Buddha spoke or acted differently, or if their actions changed external circumstances or events, you wouldn't be suffering right now. Thus the source of salvation is constantly being seen as residing outside of yourself. The minds assertion becomes that the change of mind necessary to end suffering is thus demanded of everyone and everything 'except' yourself. It's a simple game of the mind then to have you look at what must change outside of you so that you can be saved. This insanity of the mind ensures that the fruitless seach for salvation will continue, because if it fails through peeps or circumstances, it can always look for other peeps and circumstances that might offer some better succes. It's a wonderfully clever doctrine, of "Seek but do not find". For what better way that you can assure yourself of never finding salvation, than looking for it where it can't be found...heh
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Post by klaus on Jan 1, 2012 17:39:41 GMT -5
I'm not talking about mind games. They just blew it.
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Post by Beingist on Jan 1, 2012 17:45:57 GMT -5
I'm not talking about mind games. They just blew it. I rather think their disciples, and hence those who followed them just didn't get it.
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Post by nobody on Jan 1, 2012 18:24:06 GMT -5
Are you guys kiddin me!? Who in the heck really knows what was going on with Jesus and Buddha at those times. All we have to rely on is ancient text translated by those who were fast asleep. Yikes!
That being said, I do think the Christians were much more successful in mangling the text than the Buddhists.
But maybe not. Maybe Mr. Jesus really did walk on water. If so, dammit, the Christians omitted the instruction manual for pulling off such an amazing feat.. which by the way, would be AWESOME at parties!
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Post by klaus on Jan 1, 2012 18:35:41 GMT -5
I'm not talking about mind games. They just blew it. I rather think their disciples, and hence those who followed them just didn't get it. But they had to not get it from someone.
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Post by Beingist on Jan 1, 2012 19:20:54 GMT -5
I rather think their disciples, and hence those who followed them just didn't get it. But they had to not get it from someone. Do you think it's somehow better to not get it from anyone?
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Post by klaus on Jan 1, 2012 20:42:27 GMT -5
But they had to not get it from someone. Do you think it's somehow better to not get it from anyone? Same
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Post by enigma on Jan 1, 2012 21:06:52 GMT -5
Are you guys kiddin me!? Who in the heck really knows what was going on with Jesus and Buddha at those times. All we have to rely on is ancient text translated by those who were fast asleep. Yikes! That being said, I do think the Christians were much more successful in mangling the text than the Buddhists. But maybe not. Maybe Mr. Jesus really did walk on water. If so, dammit, the Christians omitted the instruction manual for pulling off such an amazing feat.. which by the way, would be AWESOME at parties!
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Post by therealfake on Jan 2, 2012 0:00:16 GMT -5
I'm not talking about mind games. They just blew it. Right... For a minute there I thought you were imagining being separate from Jesus and the Buddha. Seeing them for what they said or did, instead of what they are. ;D
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 2, 2012 1:43:25 GMT -5
It exists, was found in fragments, is out there in several versions, quite a few books about it. MM, accordingly, was a disciple above all the men... I could probably google some MM stuff, but if you have a few examples you wouldn't mind sharing it would be appreciated. I find this stuff fascinating. What is matter? Will it last forever? The Teacher answered: All that is born, all that is created, all the elements of nature are interwoven and united with each other. All that is composed will be decomposed; everything returns to its roots; matter returns to the origins of matter. Those who have ears, let them hear. Peter said to him: Since you have become the interpreter of the elements and the events of the world, tell us: What is the sin of the world?The Teacher answered: There is no sin. It is you who make sin exist, when you act according to the habits of your corrupted nature; this is where sin lies. This is why the Good has come into your midst. It acts together with the elements of your nature so as to reunite it with its roots. Then he continued: This is why you become sick, and why you die: it is a result of your actions; what you do takes you further away. Those who have ears, let them hear. beginning page 7 (pages 1-6 missing) from The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, translated from the Coptic by Jean-Yves LeLoup, Orthodox theologian, 1997, English translation, 2002, Inner Traditions
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Post by Beingist on Jan 2, 2012 2:22:28 GMT -5
Do you think it's somehow better to not get it from anyone? Same So, it's pointless for anyone to impart any wisdom or understanding to anyone else?
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Post by stardustpilgrim on Jan 2, 2012 10:44:34 GMT -5
So, it's pointless for anyone to impart any wisdom or understanding to anyone else? You could almost say yes, pointless. Everyone Jesus encountered he met at their own level. He had the capacity to do this, most of us don't. Jesus fished with a hook sometimes, with a net sometimes. We invariably have to fish with a net. Our inner core is stitched-over with a tapestry that composes (false) self. Jesus could encounter people and tell what their next step was, and open a door right to it. To some he just said, Follow me. To some he said, You are not far from the kingdom. He knew the rich young ruler was close, gave him a choice, Sell all you have and come follow me. But the rich young ruler walked away, sadly. The Pharisees, on the whole, had a tightly woven tapestry. Jesus used a sledge hammer on them. To Zacchaeus Jesus said, dude, I'm coming to your house today. Jesus explained the Way to him and then Zach went and made-right with all the people he had took money from. Jesus tested people. To this one lady who was not a Jew who wanted healing for her daughter, Jesus called a dog. She was not offended, she replied, Yea, but even the dogs get to eat the scraps off the master's table. I can just see the wheels turning in the mind of Jesus: {Whoa! That's awesome!} He healed her daughter. But basically you just put out the message, he said, He who has ears to hear, let him hear. He sowed seeds. He said some fell on hard ground, some fell on fertile soil, and some fell on all types in-between. So, you just impart and don't worry about what happens next. Be ready to water, add a little fertilizer, let some light in. Ego tries to pop the threads one-at-a-time. That takes forever, can't be done. Ego is just playing with being spiritual. Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche called it (Cutting Through) Spiritual Materialism, awesome book. Ego is like a Gordian Knot. How did Alexander the Great untie the knot? He pulled out his sword and wacked it once. Interior spiritual practice is using attention and awareness as the sword.
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Post by gypsywind on Jan 2, 2012 11:41:28 GMT -5
According to the Book of Thomas the Contender, another text from the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus speaks to Thomas- that is, to the reader- in these words:
"Since it has been said that you are my twin and my true companion, it is not fitting for you to be ignorant of yourself. So while you accompany me, although you do not yet understand it, you have already come to know, and you will be called "the one who knows himself."For whoever has not known himself knows nothing, but he who has known himself has already understood the depth of all things.
While the New Testament gospels speak of Jesus as the only door to salvation, the only path ("I am the way....no one come to the Father except through me") [John 14:6] another of these texts discovered at, Nag Hammadi, The Teaching of Silvanus, speaks quite differently:
"Knock upon yourself as upon a door, and walk upon yourself as a straight road. For if you walk on that path, you cannot go astray; and when you knock on that door, what you open for yourself shall open."
text by-Elaine Pagels
It is astounding how the King James interpretations could veer so far off course. But it's ok...
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