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Post by commiejesus on Dec 31, 2008 9:32:30 GMT -5
It occurred me yesterday as I was tallying this year (2008), that esoteric knowledge is all about useless in light of spirituality and gaining enlightenment. The problem is, all my life I was thirsting this "knowledge". When I met my (former) teacher I devoured it and wanted more. The question is; why people want knowledge? Isn't this some sort of an ego trip? Some shielded way of getting more power? If so, then I concluded this quest for knowledge directly opposes the aim of Bliss and contentment. Does the person need to know about reincarnation or karma to have this Laws impact on his life? Of course not. Reincarnation and Karma works whether the subject knows about it or not. This "Knowledge" is not relevant. Certain karmic actions are useful to know about but I suspect that we have this ingrained instinctive, intuitive idea to know which actions are positive and which actions are negative. It is my notion that a person can gain Bliss and Enlightenment purely by working for the common of men (service), practice detachment from the material realm and overcome his own ego.
It has been shown that people in every religion have managed this feat and came very close to God, and became Enlightened... They did not need to meditate or be spiritual. They did not need to burn intents, hide in a cloister or visit Tibet. Do not get me wrong, if the thirst for knowledge is for the sake of the common good than there is nothing to be said about that. It is OK. I am not advocating staying in the darkness either. Just that more and more knowledge is not useful, more and more love is.
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Morrie
New Member
"Nothing is me" is the first step. "Everything is me" is the next.
Posts: 38
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Post by Morrie on Dec 31, 2008 11:01:10 GMT -5
Well said, CJ
Most of us spend years in school accumulating esoteric knowledge that has little or no relevance to our lives or our spiritual growth. What we learn in traditional educational settings is typically in direct contrast to the knowledge we need for spiritual growth. Intellectuals often struggle more in the quest for spriitual growth because of this....they try to think their way out of all situations. Most of the the so called great Western philosophers seem rather unsuccessful at achieving inner peace in their own lives and, when compared to the great Eastern philosophers, they seem to be playing mind games with their thoughts merely pointlessly running around in circles.
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Post by commiejesus on Dec 31, 2008 12:37:35 GMT -5
Thanks for the quote. I was mainly reflecting on my own attitudes and thinking. There are things to be changed for me for the year 2009. Cheers. Well said, CJ Most of us spend years in school accumulating esoteric knowledge that has little or no relevance to our lives or our spiritual growth. What we learn in traditional educational settings is typically in direct contrast to the knowledge we need for spiritual growth. Intellectuals often struggle more in the quest for spriitual growth because of this....they try to think their way out of all situations. Most of the the so called great Western philosophers seem rather unsuccessful at achieving inner peace in their own lives and, when compared to the great Eastern philosophers, they seem to be playing mind games with their thoughts merely pointlessly running around in circles.
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Post by lightmystic on Dec 31, 2008 13:15:13 GMT -5
What a wonderful recognition! Yes, there is really no need for any of it! And that's such a relief to me, let me tell you. It seems that once there is recognition on a fundamental level what I really am and ability to accept that, then everything else simply has been a deepening of that. At this point knowledge can be very useful for deepening, but it just comes, it need not be sought out directly, and it's of course never the point. It's always in regards to that simple Awakening, that simple knowledge of who we are. It's always the simplest thing in the world, and I'm slowly getting better at presenting this enigma that way (perhaps getting better very slowly ). Esoteric knowledge not in the context of knowing who one is can be useful, but Enlightenment seems to completely remove any necessity for it. Anything knowledge that IS necessary or useful will come on it's own anyway... Beautiful post CJ. It occurred me yesterday as I was tallying this year (2008), that esoteric knowledge is all about useless in light of spirituality and gaining enlightenment. The problem is, all my life I was thirsting this " knowledge". When I met my (former) teacher I devoured it and wanted more. The question is; why people want knowledge? Isn't this some sort of an ego trip? Some shielded way of getting more power? If so, then I concluded this quest for knowledge directly opposes the aim of Bliss and contentment. Does the person need to know about reincarnation or karma to have this Laws impact on his life? Of course not. Reincarnation and Karma works whether the subject knows about it or not. This "Knowledge" is not relevant. Certain karmic actions are useful to know about but I suspect that we have this ingrained instinctive, intuitive idea to know which actions are positive and which actions are negative. It is my notion that a person can gain Bliss and Enlightenment purely by working for the common of men (service), practice detachment from the material realm and overcome his own ego. It has been shown that people in every religion have managed this feat and came very close to God, and became Enlightened... They did not need to meditate or be spiritual. They did not need to burn intents, hide in a cloister or visit Tibet. Do not get me wrong, if the thirst for knowledge is for the sake of the common good than there is nothing to be said about that. It is OK. I am not advocating staying in the darkness either. Just that more and more knowledge is not useful, more and more love is.
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fear
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Post by fear on Jan 6, 2009 16:26:23 GMT -5
Personally I feel that knowledge is aquired no matter what. Memory is knowledge. Knowing about karma is like gathering evidence about what is really true. Seeing perspective comes from knowledge. Knowing how others feel. All we have is knowledge about enlightenment. Ideas and theories are all knowledge.
I agree that we should not turn it into a desire but it's all we have to work with until the final experience.
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Post by The Uncreated on Jan 16, 2009 11:59:00 GMT -5
Just that more and more knowledge is not useful, more and more love is. Really? Love is an experience, experience is thought. The void supercedes it. ITs essential substance is neither love nor hate, bliss nor suffering but a complete transcendence of both. In the end all opposites merge, plunge over the even horizon of dualistic consciousness and into the realm of purest Infinity. Fall away from accepting explanations that paint pictures of bliss and love and somesuch. For an experience to manifest, it requires an experiencer -- both need to merge in a manner that destroys their individual properties, forming something new that could neither be quantified or measured; categorized, named or contained. Uncreated
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 16, 2009 13:39:06 GMT -5
Just that more and more knowledge is not useful, more and more love is. Really? Love is an experience, experience is thought. The void supercedes it. ITs essential substance is neither love nor hate, bliss nor suffering but a complete transcendence of both. In the end all opposites merge, plunge over the even horizon of dualistic consciousness and into the realm of purest Infinity. Fall away from accepting explanations that paint pictures of bliss and love and somesuch. For an experience to manifest, it requires an experiencer -- both need to merge in a manner that destroys their individual properties, forming something new that could neither be quantified or measured; categorized, named or contained. Uncreated Well said Uncreated. Randyji
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Post by commiejesus on Jan 16, 2009 15:44:05 GMT -5
Huh? Great circular logic! I have no idea what you have just said... (allegedly a response to the quote from my post). You genuinely belong on the best seller list of Oprah (along with the other great circular thinker Eckhart Tolle.) ...wait a minute, as a guest, MAYBE YOU ARE the great E. Tolle? Just that more and more knowledge is not useful, more and more love is. Really? Love is an experience, experience is thought. The void supercedes it. ITs essential substance is neither love nor hate, bliss nor suffering but a complete transcendence of both. In the end all opposites merge, plunge over the even horizon of dualistic consciousness and into the realm of purest Infinity. Fall away from accepting explanations that paint pictures of bliss and love and somesuch. For an experience to manifest, it requires an experiencer -- both need to merge in a manner that destroys their individual properties, forming something new that could neither be quantified or measured; categorized, named or contained. Uncreated
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Post by The Uncreated on Jan 19, 2009 5:01:06 GMT -5
I have no idea what you have just said... Then you have a lot of work to do. What I said forms the basis of the same non-dual teachings from every tradition -- Tolle ain't the gatekeeper; he like others is simply a messenger. Gonna risk being condescending here, but Oprah is confused, and a lot of her fanbase is equally confused. For Oprah to endorse the free-will, materialistic garbage that is The Secret in one breath and tout Tolle's books in the next, she is genuinely either evolving or can't figure out what's what. Tolle is knowledgeable, but he teaches with kid gloves. The sleepwalking majority need to be jarred out of the dreamstate, and I can think of several guides who are capable of doing just that -- Jed McKenna, UG Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to name a few. To recognize the signs of non-dual teachings is not to recognize the teachings of one person, but those that form the essential core of ALL traditions -- religious, scientific and philosophical. If your antenna is tuned just right, you'll pick it up where you least expect it and from those seemingly least supposed to be messengers. The Uncreated
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Post by The Uncreated on Jan 19, 2009 5:14:07 GMT -5
I can think of several guides who are capable of doing just that -- Jed McKenna, UG Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi and Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj to name a few. ..and yes, even Jesus Christ the mystic. Not Jesus the myth, but the mystic. The one who regarded himself as the I AM, existing presently before Abraham was. It's important to make the disctinction, because Jesus is a figure equal in importance to every other person who has perfected knowledge of self and shaken off the fetters of ego, despite what many wide-eyed, angry Christians believe. Jesus is one of many who have mastered the I AM and broken free from it, so his teachings are as perfect and non-dual as any other teaching, but only if you are resourceful enough to dig through the myth his gladfrightened followers created around him that only served to obscure his message. The Uncreated
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 19, 2009 10:24:34 GMT -5
Gonna risk being condescending here, but Oprah is confused, and a lot of her fanbase is equally confused. For Oprah to endorse the free-will, materialistic garbage that is The Secret in one breath and tout Tolle's books in the next, she is genuinely either evolving or can't figure out what's what.
LOL Oprah just likes to cover all the bases. She is also working with Marianne Williamson the course of miracles gal. But you need to give Tolle credit because he was the one that brought nonduality into the mainstream all the others just followed his lead. However following his lead also came a lot of garrabe as now you have nonduality being sold as a business on almost every website which to me is a shame. Some people that I really respect for there work like Aydashanti is also one of them. He has some great marketing people now he wants to charge $10 just to listen to one of his talks audio only! Hell makes me wanting to get on this band wagon too! I have never seen so many people willing to pay $$$ for nothing and are more than happy when they receive nothing and when you try to give them something then they feel screwed. Such are the days of neo-advaita
Peace Randyji
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fear
Full Member
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Post by fear on Jan 19, 2009 20:54:26 GMT -5
Adyashanti is one of my favourites. Randyji, why do you find it shameful that anyone sells it as a business? What does it have to do with you? You don't know the purpose behind paying money to listen to his teachings but you assume that he's selling non duality. Maybe he needs the money to live, anyway you shouldn't judge him for it. Besides I've listened to most of his stuff and never had to pay a cent.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 19, 2009 21:28:53 GMT -5
Adyashanti is one of my favourites. Randyji, why do you find it shameful that anyone sells it as a business? What does it have to do with you? You don't know the purpose behind paying money to listen to his teachings but you assume that he's selling non duality. Maybe he needs the money to live, anyway you shouldn't judge him for it. Besides I've listened to most of his stuff and never had to pay a cent. I like him a lot also I have seen him and been with him many times For myself I do find it shameful when the line is crossed. Now this is just me your certainly welcome to your own take. The money is only used to make his organization bigger and bigger not that is not really the problem. I just have a thing for anyone that sells spirituality and I will not debate it with you. I make jokes about it from time to time but I could never take a penny frorsharing whatever I could. I have no issues in selling to make yourself whole again but Adyashanti and many many others have created very lucrative business in selling thier words. I know what I am talking about here the same goes for Gangaji and jaxon-bear. These folks do a good service to the whole but also make themselves prositutes of spirituality sorry but that is how I feel about them on this level. Papaji, RM, and many others never charged a penny for their teachings. Now again my point is the line is crossed when you go beyond the point of making yourself whole. When Gangaji and her husband Eli were investigated they have million's in their personal accounts all profits from seekers to me this is just not right. You would be very amazed at what you will find if you had a PI investgate their bank accounts. You cannot listen to these folks for free with the exception to youtube. If you do not believe me just go to their websites you will find all the full length audios and videos to have a fee attached and not a small one. For example you want to listen to Adyashanti for 90 mins then pay your $10 first! If you want to get real then take a deeper look my friend this is very big business$$$$ I come from the old school where spirituality is like the air we breathe and should not be charged for except for asking for donations. That is why I found some of the most awake and best teachers of nonduality teaching out of their homes or other peoples homes and only asking for donations. If you really look and have a little luck the hidden saints that do not charge will always have the most to give and are the cream of the crop. I do not know why but when you have others that grow into a large business then a lot of what they have becomes something else. I remember sitting with Toni Roberson talking about nonduality before she took on Gangaji as her name and I can tell you when it was just her and Eli the feeling of her pressence and richness of her sharing was far more than the later years. Why this is I have no idea but I have seen it happen time and time again. So if you do not have the $$$ to go see Adyashanti or another high ticket teacher and someone tells you that a person just around the corner is giving a free talk on nonduality then please go you may find something very special. Oh a very good example of what I am saying here is Tony Parsons He is not only a fully awaken and enlighten person who has reach full liberation(yes liberation is different than awakening) But Mr. Parsons does not charge not only tis he has quite a good size following and yet he will not charge anyone for his time, you can call him for free. Now go ahead and make a list of others who are in the same media level as Tony Parsons that do the same..it will not be a long list for sure. this also goes for anyone here in the group if you have a special need for answer and no help here and you do not just want to speak to a office staffer just give Tony a call he will be more than happy to speak with you. I would like to close in saying this is probably my strongest opinion on matters spiritual so I hope I have not offended anyone I simply do not beleive that people should charge fees for profit when teaching matters of the spirit. Also be warned there are a lot of so called awaken teachers out there that have designed what they teach to keep you coming back for more and each time you need to pay$$$ or buy another book most of these folks are nothing but con people that know all the words to say but are not at all awake they just see this as a very good business. Why do you think all the so called Gurus came here from India to set up camp in the 70s and 80s well to paraphrase a famous bank robber that is where the money is. Only in the US do you have folks ready to pay for anything! Peace Randji
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anonji
Junior Member
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Post by anonji on Jan 19, 2009 23:11:43 GMT -5
Amen, Randyji...I am in full agreement with your above thoughts.
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Post by dwbh1953 on Jan 19, 2009 23:20:43 GMT -5
Amen, Randyji...I am in full agreement with your above thoughts. Thank you not so many are though. People have been so use in paying for everything esp in the US which is the most materialistic country in the world. It is a shame because this kind of thing really takes away from spirituality awaken or not. The real masters always knew this. In India real gurus for the most part had full time day jobs to earn a living and taught on their free time never a business like you have here. Can you imagine that a Alien comes to you home from a distant planets he or she is naked and does not know what clothing is so you teach the Alien how to dress itself and then you charge for it..sort of gives one a icking feeling does it not. Peace Randyji
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